God's Warriors, Conflict over Israel / Palestine.

#1
OrangeEmpire

OrangeEmpire

The White Debonair
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
74,988
Likes
59
#1
CNN.com

CNN is showing a very interesting documentary on the various God (Holly) warriors.
Christiane Amanpour will be covering The Jewish Warriors, The Muslim Warriors and yes, The Christian Warriors. Tonight aired the Jewish Warrior and I must say, the entire broadcast was very intriguing and disturbing at the same time.

Anyhow, my position on the matter is fairly simple in words. I strongly believe and support both a State of Palestine and a State of Israel, with Jerusalem being a landlocked sovereign city-state, much like Vatican City. For obvious reasons, that may prove to be an extreme challenge as to who would run it and how. I'll leave that decisions to more qualified people.

In any event, I'm sick and tired of seeing ll the killing on both ends and I'm sick of the oppression on both sides.

Is there anything we can do? Is the Middle East doomed to obliterate itself?

I simply don't know.

Thoughts?
 
#2
#2
These people are doomed to fighting each other until the last man is standing.

The series is quite good so far. It definitely does a thorough job in showing the spectrum within the fundamentalism.
 
#3
#3
OrangeEmpire said:
CNN.com

CNN is showing a very interesting documentary on the various God (Holly) warriors.
Christiane Amanpour will be covering The Jewish Warriors, The Muslim Warriors and yes, The Christian Warriors. Tonight aired the Jewish Warrior and I must say, the entire broadcast was very intriguing and disturbing at the same time.

Anyhow, my position on the matter is fairly simple in words. I strongly believe and support both a State of Palestine and a State of Israel, with Jerusalem being a landlocked sovereign city-state, much like Vatican City. For obvious reasons, that may prove to be an extreme challenge as to who would run it and how. I'll leave that decisions to more qualified people.

In any event, I'm sick and tired of seeing ll the killing on both ends and I'm sick of the oppression on both sides.

Is there anything we can do? Is the Middle East doomed to obliterate itself?

I simply don't know.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

As long as people keep bending, distorting, and manipulating their religious beliefs to suit their own
agendas- this turmoil will continue. It breeds intolerance, with leads to civil strive, war, and genocide.
 
#4
#4
SWIL said:
As long as people keep bending, distorting, and manipulating their religious beliefs to suit their own
agendas- this turmoil will continue. It breeds intolerance, with leads to civil strive, war, and genocide.
Click to expand...

Religion is not required for any of the above.
 
#7
#7
CSpindizzy said:
It's not required but it definitely leads to a large amount of that.
Click to expand...

And you can prove these things would not happen in the absence of religion? Sure it is used to rile up the homeland in support for these things. But people will always want money, power, land, resources, etc...
 
#8
#8
Name some acts of genocide not related to religion. Compare them to the major acts of genocide in the 20th century and the past 7 years.
 
#9
#9
CSpindizzy said:
Name some acts of genocide not related to religion. Compare them to the major acts of genocide in the 20th century and the past 7 years.
Click to expand...

Religion is intertwined in almost all modern cultures. Since food and money are too, do we also blame them for such events? I would say China is a fairly non-religious country comparatively, I guess everything is all peaches and roses there?
 
#10
#10
CSpindizzy said:
Name some acts of genocide not related to religion. Compare them to the major acts of genocide in the 20th century and the past 7 years.
Click to expand...

I am going out on limb here because I do not know much about it, but was Rwanda a religious thing? I thought it was more of a class thing?
 
#11
#11
Darfur, Former Yugoslavia, pretty much any event in the Middle East to name a few. You can pretty much look at the entire Middle East and relate the strife there to religion as a primary reason.
 
#12
#12
CSpindizzy said:
Darfur, Former Yugoslavia, pretty much any event in the Middle East to name a few. You can pretty much look at the entire Middle East and relate the strife there to religion as a primary reason.
Click to expand...

I am not saying religion gets a free pass. It is just a load of BS to think all such horrible events are the result of religion. If it isn't religion then it is your skin is a different color than my skin or your people have more money than my people, blah blah....just a convenient excuse for the non-religious to throw out. As if turmoil would not exist if all religions disappeared. Nonsense.
 
#13
#13
allvol123 said:
I am not saying religion gets a free pass. It is just a load of BS to think all such horrible events are the result of religion. If it isn't religion then it is your skin is a different color than my skin or your people have more money than my people, blah blah....just a convenient excuse for the non-religious to throw out. As if turmoil would not exist if all religions disappeared. Nonsense.
Click to expand...

Surprise, surprise I agree with what you've been saying.

Religion is a VERY sensitive subject, it seems to me that leaders know this, and to gain support for their REAL goals they use religion as a rallying cry to get the people fired up.
 
#14
#14
JZVOL said:
Surprise, surprise I agree with what you've been saying.

Religion is a VERY sensitive subject, it seems to me that leaders know this, and to gain support for their REAL goals they use religion as a rallying cry to get the people fired up.
Click to expand...

Agreed as well. People in power use whatever tool necessary to get the people motivated, if it wasn't religion it would be or is something else.
 
#15
#15
OrangeEmpire said:
CNN.com

CNN is showing a very interesting documentary on the various God (Holly) warriors.
Christiane Amanpour will be covering The Jewish Warriors, The Muslim Warriors and yes, The Christian Warriors. Tonight aired the Jewish Warrior and I must say, the entire broadcast was very intriguing and disturbing at the same time.

Anyhow, my position on the matter is fairly simple in words. I strongly believe and support both a State of Palestine and a State of Israel, with Jerusalem being a landlocked sovereign city-state, much like Vatican City. For obvious reasons, that may prove to be an extreme challenge as to who would run it and how. I'll leave that decisions to more qualified people.

Is there anything we can do? Is the Middle East doomed to obliterate itself?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

This conflict is part of Biblical prophecy. It dates back to Abraham having a child with Hagar (Ishmael) and Sarah (Isaac).

Ishmael's decendents are the Persians and Isaac's are the Jews. They will never have peace until the time of the antichrist.

Like it or not this is Biblical prophecy happening right before our eyes.
 
#16
#16
allvol123 said:
I am not saying religion gets a free pass. It is just a load of BS to think all such horrible events are the result of religion. If it isn't religion then it is your skin is a different color than my skin or your people have more money than my people, blah blah....just a convenient excuse for the non-religious to throw out. As if turmoil would not exist if all religions disappeared. Nonsense.
Click to expand...

You seem to be all wound up about something that was never stated. Did anyone state that all conflicts are the result of religion? Did anyone say if religion was removed all conflict would end? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the point was that religion played a VERY important part of many of the most recent conflicts. The Gaza Strip is not exactly the most prosperous and resource rich region in the world. Kosovo is not promising either. Please tell me something beside religion worth fighting for in these two areas. Same goes with Afghanistan. What drove thousands of herders to fight to the death to repel the atheist USSR out?
 
#17
#17
JZVOL said:
This conflict is part of Biblical prophecy. It dates back to Abraham having a child with Hagar (Ishmael) and Sarah (Isaac).

Ishmael's decendents are the Persians and Isaac's are the Jews. They will never have peace until the time of the antichrist.

Like it or not this is Biblical prophecy happening right before our eyes.
Click to expand...

But wait. If this is something used by leaders to rally people, what's the point in believing in it? You say you believe in defending Israel and protecting it. Why is that? Is that not a personal religious view?
 
#18
#18
CSpindizzy said:
You seem to be all wound up about something that was never stated. Did anyone state that all conflicts are the result of religion? Did anyone say if religion was removed all conflict would end? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the point was that religion played a VERY important part of many of the most recent conflicts. The Gaza Strip is not exactly the most prosperous and resource rich region in the world. Kosovo is not promising either. Please tell me something beside religion worth fighting for in these two areas. Same goes with Afghanistan. What drove thousands of herders to fight to the death to repel the atheist USSR out?
Click to expand...

Not wound up, you have a barometer on how wound I am? Things were implied, I said my part in response. What religion is Kim Jong IL basing his killings on? And Rwanda?
 
#19
#19
allvol123 said:
Not wound up, you have a barometer on how wound I am? Things were implied, I said my part in response. What religion is Kim Jong IL basing his killings on? And Rwanda?
Click to expand...

You are claiming that someone said ALL and as far as I can tell no one did. I'm only using your own words and see no examples to back up your claim. And again, you give a few examples. Good for you. No one said every example is tied to religion. So calm down and stop implying everyone is claiming religion has something to do with every crisis out there.

Again, Ireland/Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq, Israel/Palestine, India/Pakistan, Afghanistan, Darfur, etc. etc. I don't think Kim Jong Il is engaging in genocide. He's starving his own people yes. But he's not trying to wipe out any other one.
 
#20
#20
CSpindizzy said:
You are claiming that someone said ALL and as far as I can tell no one did. I'm only using your own words and see no examples to back up your claim. And again, you give a few examples. Good for you. No one said every example is tied to religion. So calm down and stop implying everyone is claiming religion has something to do with every crisis out there.

Again, Ireland/Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq, Israel/Palestine, India/Pakistan, Afghanistan, Darfur, etc. etc. I don't think Kim Jong Il is engaging in genocide. He's starving his own people yes. But he's not trying to wipe out any other one.
Click to expand...

My original post said religion is not required for any of that to happen. "That" being civil strife, genocide etc. How is that saying "all"? I will probably just stop here as your game of "calm down" gets old, oh mighty one.
 
#21
#21
CSpindizzy said:
But wait. If this is something used by leaders to rally people, what's the point in believing in it? You say you believe in defending Israel and protecting it. Why is that? Is that not a personal religious view?
Click to expand...

I totally belief faith is worth believing. All I am saying is that I would think leaders know how important religion is to people and could use that to play on people's emotions to get what they (Leader of nation) want.

The Isreali conflict is totally about religion at it's core, no doubt.

I just think smart politicians know how to manipulate people and play on their emotions. I think religion is something a leader could use to rally people.
 
#22
#22
CSpindizzy said:
Same goes with Afghanistan. What drove thousands of herders to fight to the death to repel the atheist USSR out?
Click to expand...

So you are trying to use this to HELP make your point? You claim the Afghanis drove the atheist USSR out? So people are on your land and just because you happen to be religious, that is the reasoning for defending yourself? I would hope anyone, religious or not, would fight to defend their home.
 
#24
#24
allvol123 said:
So you are trying to use this to HELP make your point? You claim the Afghanis drove the atheist USSR out? So people are on your land and just because you happen to be religious, that is the reasoning for defending yourself? I would hope anyone, religious or not, would fight to defend their home.
Click to expand...

Who came to Afghanistan to help these locals? You had Muslims from all over the Middle East come there to help wage war. Case in point - Bin Laden. Did they come there for oil? Real estate? Wealth?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top