Golf Channel:Tiger out for '08

#26
#26
crazyguy said:
I'm with law, phil may have the game-but he has proven to be too much of a headcase.
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same was true prior to his 3 victories. Same was said of Tom watson prior to his knocking down a slew of them. Mickelson keeps knocking at that door and it will open again.
 
#27
#27
This isn't a diss on Tiger, but BPV, it's not like Tiger has been the Tiger of the PGA Tour during the Ryder Cup events. While I agree it sucks for the US, I don't know that it destroys any chance we might have had.
 
#28
#28
volfanbill said:
This isn't a diss on Tiger, but BPV, it's not like Tiger has been the Tiger of the PGA Tour during the Ryder Cup events. While I agree it sucks for the US, I don't know that it destroys any chance we might have had.
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but at Valhalla where he won and on rocket fast greens, he would easily be the guy to beat.

He hasn't been great in Ryder Cup, but the alternative is the number 13 guy on the list, and that's a huge fall off.
 
#30
#30
BigPapaVol said:
but at Valhalla where he won and on rocket fast greens, he would easily be the guy to beat.

He hasn't been great in Ryder Cup, but the alternative is the number 13 guy on the list, and that's a huge fall off.
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I can't argue with the 1-13 deal, but I've heard Tiger was the man to beat at just about every Ryder Cup I've heard him being in. Of course, even back home, I don't think the US stands much of a chance again this year, Tiger or no Tiger.
 
#31
#31
There is no upside for Tiger in any of those matches, so I'm guessing he doesn't focus the same way that he does in majors, but he still has an intimidation factor at work and rarely loses a singles match.

As to the winner, it's likely to again be a putting contest and we're due. The Europeans have a good team but they're not more talented than our team. I don't know what it is, but guys like Monty and Sergio have even putted lights out for as long as I can remember at the Ryder Cup.

...and weren't we supposed to get killed in Canada last fall?
 
#33
#33
crazyguy said:
I'm with law, phil may have the game-but he has proven to be too much of a headcase.
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I'm not a big Mickelson fan, but I don't think you can call a guy with 30 wins and 3 majors an out and out head case. His record looks a lot like Greg Norman's, and in the late 80s and early 90s everybody thought Norman was the best player in the game.
 
#34
#34
GAVol said:
I'm not a big Mickelson fan, but I don't think you can call a guy with 30 wins and 3 majors an out and out head case. His record looks a lot like Greg Norman's, and in the late 80s and early 90s everybody thought Norman was the best player in the game.
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Question: Is Sergio a headcase?
 
#35
#35
peaygolf89 said:
WOW!

I posted on the US Open thread that he would play in the British........I guess I was wrong!!!!

I am not a huge Tiger fan, but I really hope this does not hurt his career. He is the greatest athlete in sports today. I wish him the best in his rehab! COME BACK SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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All right, look. I wasn't going to post in any of the Tiger threads because I don't golf myself. I've seen the Svengali-like hold it has over those who play it; I know that I have an obsessive personality; therefore I have refused to even pick up golf clubs, even when invited to do so for free, much in the same way that I refused to try cigarettes back in high school. I know that I'd be hooked immediately, and I don't have the time or money for it.

But come on. "The greatest athlete in sports today." Seriously? The man just won a major tournament with an ACL that's been torn for most of a year. He limped around using his driver as a cane, and he still won. How you can you be "the greatest athlete" when your whole sport is so unathletic that someone can win a major championship while gimping around the course with a torn freaking ACL?

At least 80 percent of the guys in the NBA are better athletes than Tiger Woods is. The man apparently tore his ACL running by himself down the street, after all. I'm not crapping on Tiger, who's clearly the best golfer who's ever lived, but to call him "the greatest athlete in sports" stretches the word athlete to the point where it doesn't really mean anything.
 
#37
#37
Vercingetorix said:
All right, look. I wasn't going to post in any of the Tiger threads because I don't golf myself. I've seen the Svengali-like hold it has over those who play it; I know that I have an obsessive personality; therefore I have refused to even pick up golf clubs, even when invited to do so for free, much in the same way that I refused to try cigarettes back in high school. I know that I'd be hooked immediately, and I don't have the time or money for it.

But come on. "The greatest athlete in sports today." Seriously? The man just won a major tournament with an ACL that's been torn for most of a year. He limped around using his driver as a cane, and he still won. How you can you be "the greatest athlete" when your whole sport is so unathletic that someone can win a major championship while gimping around the course with a torn freaking ACL?

At least 80 percent of the guys in the NBA are better athletes than Tiger Woods is. The man apparently tore his ACL running by himself down the street, after all. I'm not crapping on Tiger, who's clearly the best golfer who's ever lived, but to call him "the greatest athlete in sports" stretches the word athlete to the point where it doesn't really mean anything.
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This just results in an internet slap fight over something we're unlikely to agree upon.

My take: the NBA and NFL have the best athletes in the world, in terms of raw athleticism. But soccer, golf and hockey require a different set of skills and rely heavily on hand eye coordination. Those sports are littered with solid athletes with otherworldly specialized skill sets. They're just gifted differently. I don't think one set of players could go seamlessly to the other sports, so that style comparison just doesn't work. A few, very few, athletes are probably skilled enough that they could play almost any professional sports, but I don't know who they are.

As to Tiger, he is absolutely dominating in a sport that just about cannot be dominated. Obviously rare is his unique set of skills as they apply to the sports world. He has the explosive fast twitch muscle that allows him to annihilate the golf ball, his hand-eye coordination has been demonstrated to be through the roof, he has the best touch in the world, his mental strength rivals that of anyone to ever play professional sports and he is as competitive as anyone ever. All of that might not make him the most athletic player ever, but he is as dominant of a professional competitor as the sports world has seen. Michael Jordan is very similar and has unbelievable skills, but like Tiger could never dunk over Tree Rollins, Jordan could never have birdied 18 to force a US Open playoff.
 
#38
#38
BigPapaVol said:
This just results in an internet slap fight over something we're unlikely to agree upon.

My take: the NBA and NFL have the best athletes in the world, in terms of raw athleticism. But soccer, golf and hockey require a different set of skills and rely heavily on hand eye coordination. Those sports are littered with solid athletes with otherworldly specialized skill sets. They're just gifted differently. I don't think one set of players could go seamlessly to the other sports, so that style comparison just doesn't work. A few, very few, athletes are probably skilled enough that they could play almost any professional sports, but I don't know who they are.

As to Tiger, he is absolutely dominating in a sport that just about cannot be dominated. Obviously rare is his unique set of skills as they apply to the sports world. He has the explosive fast twitch muscle that allows him to annihilate the golf ball, his hand-eye coordination has been demonstrated to be through the roof, he has the best touch in the world, his mental strength rivals that of anyone to ever play professional sports and he is as competitive as anyone ever. All of that might not make him the most athletic player ever, but he is as dominant of a professional competitor as the sports world has seen. Michael Jordan is very similar and has unbelievable skills, but like Tiger could never dunk over Tree Rollins, Jordan could never have birdied 18 to force a US Open playoff.
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There was a soccer thread awhile back in which you said that you weren't really interested in the sport because there wasn't enough athleticism in it, but yet a guy is a great athlete because he dominates GOLF?

Tiger's probably a pretty good athlete, but there's no real way to tell how good because he competes in a venue in which athletic skills are pretty clearly beside the point. (Nicklaus? Mickleson? Daly, for God's sake?) Golf is about exactly as athletic as bowling, except that you have to walk farther between shots. Thoroughly dominating a game which is played and loved by millions makes Tiger justly celebrated, famous, and wealthy, but it doesn't make him a great athlete. Not unless "Fat Jack" was somehow a great athlete too.
 
#39
#39
I don't mean to gloss over your point about hand-eye coordination, because it's a good one, but I just think that if you start calling guys "great athletes" because they're great at a very specialized act of hand-eye coordination, then you're including guys who do things like throw darts and catch quarters off their elbows. It's a much broader definition of the word than I think is useful.
 
#40
#40
Anyone can "play" a sport! If you are going to be Great, you have to be a great athlete. John Daly was an All State football player, Mike Weir was a Junior Olympian Hockey player, Hale Irwin was an All Big 8 Football player at Colorado. Nick Faldo used to work out with the Orlando Magic when Shaq, Grant and Penny played. Faldo was in better physical shape, could life as much or more based on weight %, had less body fat, than the entire team. Just because you see fat people play a game, does not mean it is non athletic. 99.99999% of the people that play golf SUCK! A large part is because most people are unathletic! There are alot of really good football, baseball, hockey, and basketball players that are very good golfers(NOT BARKLEY). To be GREAT at this game, you must be very athletic. Not average or good, but GREAT!

But...When I say "Best athlete" .....Golf is a sport, and there is NO ONE, in any sport, that dominates their game more than he does.
 
#41
#41
peaygolf89 said:
Anyone can "play" a sport! If you are going to be Great, you have to be a great athlete. John Daly was an All State football player, Mike Weir was a Junior Olympian Hockey player, Hale Irwin was an All Big 8 Football player at Colorado. Nick Faldo used to work out with the Orlando Magic when Shaq, Grant and Penny played. Faldo was in better physical shape, could life as much or more based on weight %, had less body fat, than the entire team. Just because you see fat people play a game, does not mean it is non athletic. 99.99999% of the people that play golf SUCK! A large part is because most people are unathletic! There are alot of really good football, baseball, hockey, and basketball players that are very good golfers(NOT BARKLEY). To be GREAT at this game, you must be very athletic. Not average or good, but GREAT!

But...When I say "Best athlete" .....Golf is a sport, and there is NO ONE, in any sport, that dominates their game more than he does.
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Nicklaus was overweight when he dominated golf. (Thus "Fat Jack." They also called him "Whale Boy," supposedly.) Mickelson's a fatbody and he's one of the best golfers in the world. The guy who won the U.S. Open last year is built like the John Kruk -- the retired version, not the active player. If you have to be a great athlete to be great at golf, why is it possible for anybody to be world-class at it with 30 extra pounds sloshing around his waist?
 
#42
#42
Vercingetorix said:
Nicklaus was overweight when he dominated golf. (Thus "Fat Jack." They also called him "Whale Boy," supposedly.) Mickelson's a fatbody and he's one of the best golfers in the world. The guy who won the U.S. Open last year is built like the John Kruk -- the retired version, not the active player. If you have to be a great athlete to be great at golf, why is it possible for anybody to be world-class at it with 30 extra pounds sloshing around his waist?
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what he's saying is these guys playing aren't your average run of the mill slobs. at one time they were decent to great athletes, but like everybody who hits middle age, put some extra pounds on.
 
#43
#43
This is a debate that will never end..........

"What is an Athlete"? Everyone has a different definition. I can't remember the name of the show in the 70's...."Battle of the stars"???? It had the different events with different sports repesented. Track and Field and cycling guys usually won. How many consider them to be the best athletes? I'm not saying golfers are the best athletes. Not even CLOSE. That would be a joke. But these guys and women are athletes. Ask other pro athletes what they think! There is your answear.
 
#44
#44
Vercingetorix said:
Nicklaus was overweight when he dominated golf. (Thus "Fat Jack." They also called him "Whale Boy," supposedly.) Mickelson's a fatbody and he's one of the best golfers in the world. The guy who won the U.S. Open last year is built like the John Kruk -- the retired version, not the active player. If you have to be a great athlete to be great at golf, why is it possible for anybody to be world-class at it with 30 extra pounds sloshing around his waist?
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Larry Allen, William Perry, EVERY Ol and DL in the NFL are NOT athletes, based on the 30????- 100??? extra pounds "sloshing around his waist". Is that what you are saying?? Look up the definition of athletic. It is pretty broad.
 
#45
#45
I don't care if people apply a catch-all term like "athlete" to golfers, although as I said, if you do that, then you're basically saying that anybody who plays a game is an athlete. What I objected to was the IMO laughable assertion that Tiger is "the greatest athlete in the world" because he dominates a sport can be played very, very well by guys who look like they have doughnuts and chocolate milk for breakfast every morning. It sure seems to me like the greatest athlete in the world ought to have to break a sweat once in awhile.
 
#46
#46
Vercingetorix said:
I don't care if people apply a catch-all term like "athlete" to golfers, although as I said, if you do that, then you're basically saying that anybody who plays a game is an athlete. What I objected to was the IMO laughable assertion that Tiger is "the greatest athlete in the world" because he dominates a sport can be played very, very well by guys who look like they have doughnuts and chocolate milk for breakfast every morning. It sure seems to me like the greatest athlete in the world ought to have to break a sweat once in awhile.
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Who would you suggest as the greatest athlete in the world?
 
#48
#48
allvol123 said:
Who would you suggest as the greatest athlete in the world?
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I don't have a quick answer, but here's how I'd go about answering the question. Say your life depends on the outcome of an athletic contest, but you don't know what sport it's going to be. Therefore you need someone who excels at everything -- strength, speed, quickness, hand-eye coordination. Whom do you pick?

I don't know -- Julius Peppers, maybe? Dwight Howard?

(The traditional answer is the current world champion in the decathlon, and that's probably a good place to start, but that's no fun since nobody knows who that is.)
 
#49
#49
Vercingetorix said:
I don't have a quick answer, but here's how I'd go about answering the question. Say your life depends on the outcome of an athletic contest, but you don't know what sport it's going to be. Therefore you need someone who excels at everything -- strength, speed, quickness, hand-eye coordination. Whom do you pick?

I don't know -- Julius Peppers, maybe? Dwight Howard?

(The traditional answer is the current world champion in the decathlon, and that's probably a good place to start, but that's no fun since nobody knows who that is.)
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Jesse Owens.

Alive you say?.. :question:
 
#50
#50
You know BPV nailed this debate before he ever started..
This just results in an internet slap fight over something we're unlikely to agree upon.
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Still, for my money Tiger is the best professional athlete there is right now.
 
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