Goodbye Oregon Football

#752
#752
wheaton4prez said:
Where has it been established that they "went through" Lyles for the visit? If Lyles, on his own, called up Oregon one day and said that Seastrunk wants to visit on such and such day, that is hardly going "through" Lyles for anything.

As far as what recruiting is, I always thought that it was acts to convince a kid that they should go to a school. What do you think it is?

It sounds like your interpretation of it is so loose that eating a sandwich is recruiting if it happens to occur while a coach is on their way to talk to a PSA. In my view, at that moment, the coach isn't "recruiting." He is simply eating a sandwich.
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Why would lyles be calling oregon for anyone? How is this any Lyles business? Sounds like something a parent or coach would do no? If Oregon gave a parent or coach 25k would you object?

He's not allowed to be involved in the recruiting process. That includes setting up visits. I assume he did far more than set up visits, but even in your best case head in the sand theory its a major violation.
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#753
#753
images
 
#757
#757
orange parmejohn said:
i dont understand why he is so desperate for us to buy what he is selling. our opinion means absolutely nothing in this matter. is he trying to make himself believe?
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I'm not trying to sell anything. I posted my opinion on the subject and others have been coming at me with their take.

I'm going to defend my position if I believe it has merit. Like I wrote from the beginning, I think that it could go either way. The rules aren't clear. So, it depends on how they are interpreted by the authorities.

CountVolcula said:
Oregon retains lawyers who specialize in NCAA issues | KVAL CBS 13 - News, Weather and Sports - Eugene, OR | Local & Regional News
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Yes. Oregon hired the best NCAA attorney in the nation. A guy who has advised other programs in different situations to self-impose sanctions to get in front of NCAA decisions.

In Oregon's case, he has apparently advised them not to self-impose sanctions. Do you think that if this case were as clear-cut as you would like to believe that the best NCAA attorney in the nation would advise Oregon to maintain that they have done nothing wrong?

droski said:
Why would lyles be calling oregon for anyone? How is this any Lyles business? Sounds like something a parent or coach would do no? If Oregon gave a parent or coach 25k would you object?
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Seastrunk didn't have a good relationship with his coach and was raised by his grandmother. Lyles met Seastrunk through his work and wanted to help him on a personal level. That's his explanation. He specifically points out that parents and coaches dropped the ball and the kid needed help or he wouldn't have been able to play football at all.

Parents and coaches don't typically provide information about recruits. Not the same thing as a recruiting service being paid for information and videos.

droski said:
He's not allowed to be involved in the recruiting process. That includes setting up visits. I assume he did far more than set up visits, but even in your best case head in the sand theory its a major violation.
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That's your interpretation. If the NCAA agrees, I'm sure there will be significant penalties. However, it's not clear that the NCAA will see it the same way.
 
#758
#758
Wheaton, do you really think of this as a 50-50 coin flip? Like, if the hearings go the way 90% of America thinks they will, you're just going to chalk it up to Lady Luck coincidentally falling in line with the predictions?
 
#760
#760
#761
#761
VKAman said:
Wheaton, do you really think of this as a 50-50 coin flip? Like, if the hearings go the way 90% of America thinks they will, you're just going to chalk it up to Lady Luck coincidentally falling in line with the predictions?
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No. I don't think of this as a 50/50 coin flip. I think of it as a situation under murky rules. So, it could be ruled either way. In order to place odds on it, I'd have to know the NCAA process and people involved better. From what I know, they don't seem very consistent in their rulings.

Others can pretend to know what the NCAA will do. I'm not willing to do that.

90% of America thought Cam Newton wouldn't play in the NC game. Didn't really have much bearing on anything.

droski said:
i posted the rule. it's not an interpretation.
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You have posted no rule that clearly indicates that Lyles can't give a time for when recruits want to visit. You are arbitrarily determining what is and is not "recruiting". As I've pointed out before, reading it as loosely as you do creates the taxi driver problem. Essentially, an unreasonable interpretation of the rules that doesn't serve their intent.
 
#762
#762
wheaton4prez said:
No. I don't think of this as a 50/50 coin flip. I think of it as a situation under murky rules. So, it could be ruled either way. In order to place odds on it, I'd have to know the NCAA process and people involved better. From what I know, they don't seem very consistent in their rulings.

Others can pretend to know what the NCAA will do. I'm not willing to do that.

90% of America thought Cam Newton wouldn't play in the NC game. Didn't really have much bearing on anything.



You have posted no rule that clearly indicates that Lyles can't give a time for when recruits want to visit. You are arbitrarily determining what is and is not "recruiting". As I've pointed out before, reading it as loosely as you do creates the taxi driver problem. Essentially, an unreasonable interpretation of the rules that doesn't serve their intent.
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Just give it up

We are not the only ones saying this. Mark May has said the same thing that me, droski, and the others have said.

I can guarantee that if it was OSU or any other PAC 12 team, you would be screaming that they were cheating.

But you want to turn a blind eye and deny any cheating by your team.

You are whats wrong with CFB now. The win at all cost fan. You would sell your soul to the devil to win.

Winning the right way is the only way. If you have to cheat to win, then its not really worth it
 
#763
#763
CountVolcula said:
Just give it up

We are not the only ones saying this. Mark May has said the same thing that me, droski, and the others have said.

I can guarantee that if it was OSU or any other PAC 12 team, you would be screaming that they were cheating.

But you want to turn a blind eye and deny any cheating by your team.

You are whats wrong with CFB now. The win at all cost fan. You would sell your soul to the devil to win.

Winning the right way is the only way. If you have to cheat to win, then its not really worth it
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well said.
/thread
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#764
#764
Using Mark May to strengthen your argument probably isn't the smartest idea.
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#767
#767
CountVolcula said:
Just give it up

We are not the only ones saying this. Mark May has said the same thing that me, droski, and the others have said.

I can guarantee that if it was OSU or any other PAC 12 team, you would be screaming that they were cheating.

But you want to turn a blind eye and deny any cheating by your team.

You are whats wrong with CFB now. The win at all cost fan. You would sell your soul to the devil to win.

Winning the right way is the only way. If you have to cheat to win, then its not really worth it
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Solid as hell! (Pun intended)
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#768
#768
wheaton4prez said:
No. I don't think of this as a 50/50 coin flip. I think of it as a situation under murky rules. So, it could be ruled either way. In order to place odds on it, I'd have to know the NCAA process and people involved better. From what I know, they don't seem very consistent in their rulings.

Others can pretend to know what the NCAA will do. I'm not willing to do that.

90% of America thought Cam Newton wouldn't play in the NC game. Didn't really have much bearing on anything.



You have posted no rule that clearly indicates that Lyles can't give a time for when recruits want to visit. You are arbitrarily determining what is and is not "recruiting". As I've pointed out before, reading it as loosely as you do creates the taxi driver problem. Essentially, an unreasonable interpretation of the rules that doesn't serve their intent.
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90% of America feels that the Anthony mother was guilty too. The jury said she wasn't, but 90 % of the jury thought she was,,,,,, but didn't have proof.

Oregon = Anthony

Not sure if NCAA will FIND them guilty, but they are.
:compute:
 
#773
#773
OrangeDog said:
90% of America feels that the Anthony mother was guilty too. The jury said she wasn't, but 90 % of the jury thought she was,,,,,, but didn't have proof.

Oregon = Anthony

Not sure if NCAA will FIND them guilty, but they are.
:compute:
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Wut?
 
#774
#774
CountVolcula said:
Just give it up
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Give up my opinion? No. Why should I? Why does it upset you so much that I disagree with you on this issue?

The answer is obvious, because you want to see Oregon punished for personal reasons and that is driving your perspective on this issue.

CountVolcula said:
We are not the only ones saying this. Mark May has said the same thing that me, droski, and the others have said.
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And there are many others saying the same thing that I am. The rules are murky. Charles Robinson, the guy who broke this story, says that it's unclear if Oregon broke any rules. Even John Canzano who hates Oregon and is trying to make this look bad agrees that there is a lot of wiggle room in the rules.

I could go on and on listing people who have said things in agreement with me. However, I'm not like you in thinking that that is a good way to try and support an argument. I stand on the merits of reason and evidence. Not appeals to anecdotal and inconsequential agreement.

CountVolcula said:
I can guarantee that if it was OSU or any other PAC 12 team, you would be screaming that they were cheating.
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No. You can't guarantee that.

CountVolcula said:
But you want to turn a blind eye and deny any cheating by your team.
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No. I simply don't have a vendetta against Oregon as you and a few others do. Some of the people saying that Oregon cheated would say that Chip Kelly lied if he said that he wanted his eggs over medium for breakfast.

CountVolcula said:
You are whats wrong with CFB now. The win at all cost fan. You would sell your soul to the devil to win.
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Yes. Because I have a different opinion about whether or not something is clearly cheating, I'm whats wrong with CFB. Now you're getting desperate.

CountVolcula said:
Winning the right way is the only way. If you have to cheat to win, then its not really worth it
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Thank you CountVolcula of Nazareth.

I'm not for cheating either. My point is that it's not clear whether or not Oregon did cheat. The rules need to be shored up on this issue so that there is no gray area.
 
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