Government Cover UP??

[hatvol96]

I doubt the family's reaction came into play on the decision to award the Silver Star.
He died April 22nd, and April 28th the Silver Star was approved. At the time of the award approval, details surrounding his death we're still being sorted out, and his family was dealing with his loss. I highly doubt that in the span of 5-6 days, the family was hell bent on exposing or even aware of a gov't cover up..

As will be obvious when people view the movie, there was no confusion on the Army's part as to what happened at any point. Only an attempt to keep from losing Pat's value as a poster boy. It's instuctive that the soldiers sent to deliver the official news to Tillman's family spent a substantial period of time trying to browbeat the family into burying Pat with full military honors, something he had expressly stated he wanted no part of many times when discussing the danger of his missions.
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[vol_in_ar]

As will be obvious when people view the movie, there was no confusion on the Army's part as to what happened at any point. Only an attempt to keep from losing Pat's value as a poster boy. It's instuctive that the soldiers sent to deliver the official news to Tillman's family spent a substantial period of time trying to browbeat the family into burying Pat with full military honors, something he had expressly stated he wanted no part of many times when discussing the danger of his missions.
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I also highly doubt that the notification officer's tried to brow beat the family into any decision's. Their role has nothing to do with the families wishes for burial, seems like the article you read and the movie, is turning an already tragic situation into something worse..

 

[gsvol]

Seems hat is very emotional about this.

Wonder what his own militiary service might have been?

I'll bet hat would make a great poster boy himself, I'm just not sure for what!!

 

[punkcat]

Seems hat is very emotional about this.

Wonder what his own militiary service might have been?

I'll bet hat would make a great poster boy himself, I'm just not sure for what!!

He's prolly going to pay good money to watch this trash movie.

 

[volger]

it's obviously Bush's fault.

Its no ones fault but the sorry soldiers that couldnt shoot straight. Tragic story to say the least.

Now its about who can make money on it. Aint bringing Pat back.

 

[hatvol96]

I also highly doubt that the notification officer's tried to brow beat the family into any decision's.

So, you're calling Tillman's mother a liar? Nice job. Good to see we've got another The Army Does No Wrong sheep on board. I bet it really crushed you when you found out Santa Claus was a lie your parents perpetrated for their own amusement.

 

[gsvol]

As will be obvious when people view the movie, there was no confusion on the Army's part as to what happened at any point. Only an attempt to keep from losing Pat's value as a poster boy. It's instuctive that the soldiers sent to deliver the official news to Tillman's family spent a substantial period of time trying to browbeat the family into burying Pat with full military honors, something he had expressly stated he wanted no part of many times when discussing the danger of his missions.
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Anyone who believes this movie will be factual and truthful is a brain dead moron!

 

[vol_in_ar]

So, you're calling Tillman's mother a liar? Nice job. Good to see we've got another The Army Does No Wrong sheep on board. I bet it really crushed you when you found out Santa Claus was a lie your parents perpetrated for their own amusement.

I still believe in Santa.....and I still don't think the notification officers tried to "brow beat" her or the family into a service they weren't comfortable with..

The officer's would have notified, the parents before Tillman's body was even back in the United States...

They would have been sent within 24-48 hrs, and there's no way his body made it from Afghanistan, back to the US, and released into thier custody for funeral arrangements to have even been part of the discussion with the notifying officers..

 

[lumberjack4]

I wouldn't buy either's full side of the story. As with most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
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[gsvol]

So, you're calling Tillman's mother a liar? Nice job. Good to see we've got another The Army Does No Wrong sheep on board. I bet it really crushed you when you found out Santa Claus was a lie your parents perpetrated for their own amusement.

I can just see you dressed up in an Easter Bunny outfit.

 

[Unimane]

As is well known, I am not a hat fan, but I am in 100% agreement with him here. There are two things in consideration for this argument.

One, people are completely missing the perspective of Tillman when he died and that of his family, which only hat has correctly identified. Tillman was an exceptionally complicated person who grew to despise the purpose of the Iraq War and was not the American Hero persona given to him in death. No one is, in fact, that's a myth we purportrate as it is.

Two, never underestimate the ability of the government to lie to you about the exploits of the military and to treat soldiers as pawns, or simply, as garbage. The Tillman situation is so typical, create a rah, rah yeah America moment and charicature. A masterful and opportune pro-war moment. I learned very quickly when I was young by seeing how my grandfather and uncle were treated that the military was not something I wanted to be associated with. I had no desire to put my life on the line for useless or unethical wars masked in propaganda only to be discarded when I couldn't be of use anymore.

 

[VOLS INC.]

As is well known, I am not a hat fan, but I am in 100% agreement with him here. There are two things in consideration for this argument.

One, people are completely missing the perspective of Tillman when he died and that of his family, which only hat has correctly identified. Tillman was an exceptionally complicated person who grew to despise the purpose of the Iraq War and was not the American Hero persona given to him in death. No one is, in fact, that's a myth we purportrate as it is.

Two, never underestimate the ability of the government to lie to you about the exploits of the military and to treat soldiers as pawns, or simply, as garbage. The Tillman situation is so typical, create a rah, rah yeah America moment and charicature. A masterful and opportune pro-war moment. I learned very quickly when I was young by seeing how my grandfather and uncle were treated that the military was not something I wanted to be associated with. I had no desire to put my life on the line for useless or unethical wars masked in propaganda only to be discarded when I couldn't be of use anymore.

:clapping: AMEN

 

[BigPapaVol]

As is well known, I am not a hat fan, but I am in 100% agreement with him here. There are two things in consideration for this argument.

One, people are completely missing the perspective of Tillman when he died and that of his family, which only hat has correctly identified. Tillman was an exceptionally complicated person who grew to despise the purpose of the Iraq War and was not the American Hero persona given to him in death. No one is, in fact, that's a myth we purportrate as it is.

Two, never underestimate the ability of the government to lie to you about the exploits of the military and to treat soldiers as pawns, or simply, as garbage. The Tillman situation is so typical, create a rah, rah yeah America moment and charicature. A masterful and opportune pro-war moment. I learned very quickly when I was young by seeing how my grandfather and uncle were treated that the military was not something I wanted to be associated with. I had no desire to put my life on the line for useless or unethical wars masked in propaganda only to be discarded when I couldn't be of use anymore.

But thank the Lord, who Pat didn't believe in, that there are those capable of and willing to visit evil on others so that you can take this cynical view of our military and its functions. I can appreciate that you are toting the Vietnam mantra of propaganda driven unethical wars, but this ridiculous view assumes that there are no actions worthy of using our forces.

As to the story, I don't buy either side. Truth is in between. Military has never been above making crap up. Tillman's death is a sad tragedy of combat ops. His personal view of the war as a whole is immaterial.
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[BeecherVol]

But thank the Lord that Pat doesn't believe in that there are those capable of and willing to visit evil on others so that you can wallow in your hatred for our military.

As to the story, I don't buy either side. Truth is in between. Military has never been above making crap up. Tillman's death is a sad tragedy of combat ops. His personal view of the war as a whole is immaterial.
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This.

Expecting to get the full truth out of either side of this is a lost cause. And your last point may be the truest of the statement.

 

[JTrainDavis]

But thank the Lord that Pat doesn't believe in that there are those capable of and willing to visit evil on others so that you can wallow in your hatred for our military.

As to the story, I don't buy either side. Truth is in between. Military has never been above making crap up. Tillman's death is a sad tragedy of combat ops. His personal view of the war as a whole is immaterial.
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+1
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[volger]

But thank the Lord, who Pat didn't believe in, that there are those capable of and willing to visit evil on others so that you can take this cynical view of our military and its functions. I can appreciate that you are toting the Vietnam mantra of propaganda driven unethical wars, but this ridiculous view assumes that there are no actions worthy of using our forces.

As to the story, I don't buy either side. Truth is in between. Military has never been above making crap up. Tillman's death is a sad tragedy of combat ops. His personal view of the war as a whole is immaterial.
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Truer words.

 

[BearCat204]

But thank the Lord, who Pat didn't believe in, that there are those capable of and willing to visit evil on others so that you can take this cynical view of our military and its functions. I can appreciate that you are toting the Vietnam mantra of propaganda driven unethical wars, but this ridiculous view assumes that there are no actions worthy of using our forces.

As to the story, I don't buy either side. Truth is in between. Military has never been above making crap up. Tillman's death is a sad tragedy of combat ops. His personal view of the war as a whole is immaterial.
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Thank you for saying this

 

[vol_in_ar]

As is well known, I am not a hat fan, but I am in 100% agreement with him here. There are two things in consideration for this argument.

One, people are completely missing the perspective of Tillman when he died and that of his family, which only hat has correctly identified. Tillman was an exceptionally complicated person who grew to despise the purpose of the Iraq War and was not the American Hero persona given to him in death. No one is, in fact, that's a myth we purportrate as it is.

Two, never underestimate the ability of the government to lie to you about the exploits of the military and to treat soldiers as pawns, or simply, as garbage. The Tillman situation is so typical, create a rah, rah yeah America moment and charicature. A masterful and opportune pro-war moment. I learned very quickly when I was young by seeing how my grandfather and uncle were treated that the military was not something I wanted to be associated with. I had no desire to put my life on the line for useless or unethical wars masked in propaganda only to be discarded when I couldn't be of use anymore.

The fact the Tillman, held his personal beliefs on the Iraq war in check and was able to function and excel as Army Ranger speaks to the abilities of the man.

as for your comments that there's no hero's, that's an asinine comment

 

[Unimane]

But thank the Lord, who Pat didn't believe in, that there are those capable of and willing to visit evil on others so that you can take this cynical view of our military and its functions. I can appreciate that you are toting the Vietnam mantra of propaganda driven unethical wars, but this ridiculous view assumes that there are no actions worthy of using our forces.

As to the story, I don't buy either side. Truth is in between. Military has never been above making crap up. Tillman's death is a sad tragedy of combat ops. His personal view of the war as a whole is immaterial.
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You missed the cynical part being the politicians, not the soldiers, but, hey, feel free to butcher my argument.

 

[BigPapaVol]

You missed the cynical part being the politicians, not the soldiers, but, hey, feel free to butcher my argument.

How was your argument butchered? You might be laying the blame somewhere, but the logical conclusion is that soldiers aren't heroes because they're carrying out unethical wars of convenience for those in power. Regardless how you might couch it, that's the gist of your point. Doesn't help that the implication is that soldiers are simply too stupid to understand the big picture as well as you do.

And once again, you get to sit back and enjoy your pacifist worldview freely and in relative peace because we have people ready, willing and fully able to visit really bad outcomes upon those who don't necessarily appreciate your freedoms.