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Greatest UT Duo In History?

#55
#55
gainesvol82 said:
If we win a NCAAT championship does that make ZZ and Mashack the best duo in UT history?

Also, does ls it make ZZ the best (not necessarily most talented) Vol of all-time? I think so......

Such a joy watching them
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ZZ is for sure in the running for any by the inch calculation and ranking. With 2 assists in the tourney he will be the career leader in assists.

He will add this to already blowing by the field as the career leader in steals.

One career mark on each side of the ball is pretty dang impressive.

I am assuming the stats I looked up are accurate and up to date.

Does not seem to meet stringent interpretation of number retirement policy, BUT….

————

Needs 3 of below criteria.

SEC Player of the Year

National Award (Player of the Year, Sullivan, or similar honor)

First-Team All-American

Career record holder in a significant category (as determined by the committee) at the UT, SEC, or national level upon completion of career

National championship during tenure

————-

Was he just voted an SEC Player of the year? Is that 2 of those?

Do Two career records both count? That would be at least 3 overall. Does not say you have to meet 3 different criteria, just 3 from the list.

Committe does have some flexibility I think. He should easily pass the character and academic standing criteria.

Bet Coach would help them wordsmith the deal.
 
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#58
#58
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Yes. The first game that King and Grunfeld played versus KY was a loss at Memorial. A Kentucky fan flipped a lit cigarette into Bernard’s afro and he declared that he’d never lose to KY again. He was correct. Ernie and Bernie won the next 5 including twice in Lexington.
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And Kentucky was loaded in all of those games.
 
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#59
#59
Not questioning his prowless on the court but his bread and butter in the fields of management and operations exceeded all other areas.
 
#60
#60
It could have been, and should have been, Spencer Haywood and Ralph Simpson in the late 1960s. With those two, UT finishes no worse than 2nd to Alcindor (Jabbar) and UCLA in 1969. A Final Four then, the UT basketball future is much, much different.

As it was, Haywood signed with Tennessee in 1967, lived in Knoxville for a summer but wasn’t admitted in to UT that fall; Simpson, his HS teammate, visited the campus a year later but with no Haywood on campus; went on to Michigan State.

Both became ABA legends and played in the NBA.

What if...
 
#61
#61
Dartmouth Vol said:
It could have been, and should have been, Spencer Haywood and Ralph Simpson in the late 1960s. With those two, UT finishes no worse than 2nd to Alcindor (Jabbar) and UCLA in 1969. A Final Four then, the UT basketball future is much, much different.

As it was, Haywood signed with Tennessee in 1967, lived in Knoxville for a summer but wasn’t admitted in to UT that fall; Simpson, his HS teammate, visited the campus a year later but with no Haywood on campus; went on to Michigan State.

Both became ABA legends and played in the NBA.

What if...
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Spencer Haywood still couldn't carry King's jock
 
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#62
#62
Dartmouth Vol said:
It could have been, and should have been, Spencer Haywood and Ralph Simpson in the late 1960s. With those two, UT finishes no worse than 2nd to Alcindor (Jabbar) and UCLA in 1969. A Final Four then, the UT basketball future is much, much different.

As it was, Haywood signed with Tennessee in 1967, lived in Knoxville for a summer but wasn’t admitted in to UT that fall; Simpson, his HS teammate, visited the campus a year later but with no Haywood on campus; went on to Michigan State.

Both became ABA legends and played in the NBA.

What if...
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Getting old, can’t remember if it was Haywood or King who was reported to have folks put 50 cent prices on the top of the backboard and he would go up and get them. Seems Spencer worked at Rice Olds his one summer here. I could walk to the Rice house from mine in safety and within 2 minutes in Deane Hill. It is amazing how cloudy a guys memory can get in 58 years.

Rice was prominent in the Orange Tie Section in the early Mears years. We were in the second wave of folks that filled it up. Some family friends were all in early and provided the hot tip. The vests were all orange, the ties had more blue than ORANGE stripes????
 
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#63
#63
BernardKingGOAT said:
Spencer Haywood still couldn't carry King's jock
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Spencer was 1967 National HS player of the year when UT recruited and signed him; King was an unknown HS guy in Fort Green, until Tom Konchalski found and told UT about him.

Spencer, 1st year out of HS, leads the USA to Olympic Gold as the starting center.
His 2nd year out of HS; he led the NCAA in Rebounds per game.
His junior college season; he averaged 30 ppg & 20 rpg as the ABA MVP and ROY.
His college senior year, he averaged 21 & 12 in the NBA.

Scary to think what numbers he would have put up for Tennessee in the almost all white SEC 1968-1970 if he was putting up 30 & 20 against older pros at the very same time.

Both were great. Like comparing two bottles of wine but Spencer was the great UT what-if!
67 US Mr. BBall.PNG
 
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#64
#64
GUNTERSVOL said:
Getting old, can’t remember if it was Haywood or King who was reported to have folks put 50 cent prices on the top of the backboard and he would go up and get them. Seems Spencer worked at Rice Olds his one summer here. I could walk to the Rice house from mine in safety and within 2 minutes in Deane Hill. It is amazing how cloudy a guys memory can get in 58 years.

Rice was prominent in the Orange Tie Section in the early Mears years. We were in the second wave of folks that filled it up. Some family friends were all in early and provided the hot tip. The vests were all orange, the ties had more blue than ORANGE stripes????
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R&F1_ p94-95.JPG
 
#65
#65
Tennman said:
Bernard King and Ernie Grunfield are by far the best duo. If I remember correctly, King I think had an injured finger during the NCAA tourney and probably hurt us.. I want to think that team had a couple other good players too. Ernie and Bernie though, man unstoppable.
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Michael Brooks / Jackson / Darden
 
#68
#68
BernardKingGOAT said:
Michael Brooks played from 1980-1985. Jackson was here the exact same years as Grunfeld.

Actually Grunfeld and Jackson would be the best duo that played together 4 straight years. 1973-1977

Darden played from 1975-1979
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And David Moss was in that Jackson/Grunfeld class. It was probably the greatest class that Mears ever signed. Possibly the greatest ever at UT. But England, Johnson, Johnston, Kinard, and Woodall was right up there as well. Without questioning what he did to get them and not considering that they almost all exited instead of playing for Barnes, Tyndall had a pretty amazing class in his one small window.
 
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#70
#70
Tennman said:
correct, he only played three years and shared the SEC POTY award with Ernie Grunfield in 77 I think, ( whatever his last year was) Can't even imagine his stats if the three point line was in play then.
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Bernard was more a post-up and mid-range kind of player offensively, even in the NBA, so I'm not sure how much difference a 3-pt. line would have made for him.

The guy that I wonder about in that regard is Dale Ellis, who was a do-everything player at UT, unselfish almost to a fault. In the NBA he became one of the all-time 3-pt. marksmen, pretty much a gun for hire. It would have been quite interesting if the 3-pt. line had been around in CBB for his years here.
 
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#71
#71
Dartmouth Vol said:
Spencer was 1967 National HS player of the year when UT recruited and signed him; King was an unknown HS guy in Fort Green, until Tom Konchalski found and told UT about him.

Spencer, 1st year out of HS, leads the USA to Olympic Gold as the starting center.
His 2nd year out of HS; he led the NCAA in Rebounds per game.
His junior college season; he averaged 30 ppg & 20 rpg as the ABA MVP and ROY.
His college senior year, he averaged 21 & 12 in the NBA.

Scary to think what numbers he would have put up for Tennessee in the almost all white SEC 1968-1970 if he was putting up 30 & 20 against older pros at the very same time.

Both were great. Like comparing two bottles of wine but Spencer was the great UT what-if!
View attachment 729236
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Yeah, I know Haywood was a super talented player. Would have been a treat had he been able to play at UT. Could have possibly been the second best player in team history
 
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#75
#75
sami said:
Bernard was more a post-up and mid-range kind of player offensively, even in the NBA, so I'm not sure how much difference a 3-pt. line would have made for him.

The guy that I wonder about in that regard is Dale Ellis, who was a do-everything player at UT, unselfish almost to a fault. In the NBA he became one of the all-time 3-pt. marksmen, pretty much a gun for hire. It would have been quite interesting if the 3-pt. line had been around in CBB for his years here.
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King was also unstoppable cutting to the basket. He had the range to hit 3s, but he would have benefited a lot had there been a 3PL because Grunfeld, Jackson, and Woods-Darden-Bertelkamp would have forced defenses to respect them taking 3-point shots.

Don’t forget that the college 3PL has always been shorter than the NBA 3. The rosters those 3 years would have thrived with the 3s being available.
 
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