Gun control debate (merged)

[85SugarVol]

So under the scenario that there was no discernible improvement, the do something next would be to look at how guns were ending up in the hands of criminals and address those issues.

That seems reasonable, on its face. But I imagine the criminals were breaking the law.

So given that there was no discernible improvement from the ban of the assault weapons in question, it would also seem reasonable to reverse the non effective ban. Would you not agree?

 

[kiddiedoc]

That seems reasonable, on its face. But I imagine the criminals were breaking the law.

So given that there was no discernible improvement from the ban of the assault weapons in question, it would also seem reasonable to reverse the non effective ban. Would you not agree?

Haven't you read about all the 249s, Ma Deuces, and Uzis terrorizing the streets?

 

[WoodsmanVol]

My goodness you are ignorant.

Well, heil, if so, I learned it all from you. You're a good teacher, I'm a better student. We mesh pretty well.

 

[luthervol]

That seems reasonable, on its face. But I imagine the criminals were breaking the law.

So given that there was no discernible improvement from the ban of the assault weapons in question, it would also seem reasonable to reverse the non effective ban. Would you not agree?

Sure, if it was agreed that there was no discernible improvement.

 

[85SugarVol]

Sure, if it was agreed that there was no discernible improvement.

I would agree. I do find the notion unlikely, though.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Sure, if it was agreed that there was no discernible improvement.

there was a ban.
There was no improvement
When the ban expired, there was no change.

 

[luthervol]

there was a ban.
There was no improvement
When the ban expired, there was no change.

What??? You couldn't be more wrong.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/ban-assault-weapons/mass-shootings.html

Conclusions​

We identified five qualifying studies that estimated the effects of state assault weapon bans on different aspects of mass shootings. Gius (2015c) found that these bans significantly reduce mass shooting deaths but have uncertain effects on injuries resulting from mass shootings. Using similar models, however, Gius (2018) found that assault weapon bans resulted in significantly fewer casualties (deaths and nonfatal injuries) from school shootings.

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www.factcheck.org

FactCheck.org, Feb. 1, 2013: The final report concluded the ban’s success in reducing crimes committed with banned guns was “mixed.” Gun crimes involving assault weapons declined. However, that decline was “offset throughout at least the late 1990s by steady or rising use of other guns equipped with [large-capacity magazines].”

Ultimately, the research concluded that it was “premature to make definitive assessments of the ban’s impact on gun crime,” largely because the law’s grandfathering of millions of pre-ban assault weapons and large-capacity magazines “ensured that the effects of the law would occur only gradually” and were “still unfolding” when the ban expired in 2004.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/173405.pdf

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting

A federal assault weapon ban was highly effective in reducing public mass shootings, reports a new Northwestern Medicine study just published in a pre-print.

news.northwestern.edu

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting​

A continuation of the federal ban could have prevented 30 public mass shootings

 

[TheDeeble]

I would agree. I do find the notion unlikely, though.

Yea, good luck trying to get the govt to undo legislation. Even after years of no discernable improvement, the cry from the Luther's will be "it hasn't been long enough to take effect. We need double what we told you was needed at the start". Rinse and repeat.

 

[luthervol]

Yea, good luck trying to get the govt to undo legislation. Even after years of no discernable improvement, the cry from the Luther's will be "it hasn't been long enough to take effect. We need double what we told you was needed at the start". Rinse and repeat.

lol.....Years of no discernable improvement? What if you have years of discernable improvement but gun nuts reject/ignore the data?
See @Orangeslice13

 

[hog88]

What??? You couldn't be more wrong.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/ban-assault-weapons/mass-shootings.html

Conclusions​

We identified five qualifying studies that estimated the effects of state assault weapon bans on different aspects of mass shootings. Gius (2015c) found that these bans significantly reduce mass shooting deaths but have uncertain effects on injuries resulting from mass shootings. Using similar models, however, Gius (2018) found that assault weapon bans resulted in significantly fewer casualties (deaths and nonfatal injuries) from school shootings.

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www.factcheck.org

FactCheck.org, Feb. 1, 2013: The final report concluded the ban’s success in reducing crimes committed with banned guns was “mixed.” Gun crimes involving assault weapons declined. However, that decline was “offset throughout at least the late 1990s by steady or rising use of other guns equipped with [large-capacity magazines].”

Ultimately, the research concluded that it was “premature to make definitive assessments of the ban’s impact on gun crime,” largely because the law’s grandfathering of millions of pre-ban assault weapons and large-capacity magazines “ensured that the effects of the law would occur only gradually” and were “still unfolding” when the ban expired in 2004.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/173405.pdf

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting

A federal assault weapon ban was highly effective in reducing public mass shootings, reports a new Northwestern Medicine study just published in a pre-print.

news.northwestern.edu

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting​

A continuation of the federal ban could have prevented 30 public mass shootings

How? The ban did not affect any of the mechanics of what you incorrectly consider an assault rifle. It only affected the cosmetics.

 

[luthervol]

How? The ban did not affect any of the mechanics of what you incorrectly consider an assault rifle. It only affected the furniture.

Read the above. Plus there were many more.

Google "what was the impact of the assault weapons ban"....or anything similar.

 

[hog88]

Read the above. Plus there were many more.

Google "what was the impact of the assault weapons ban"....or anything similar.

It is all propaganda and never explains HOW. Do better.

 

[Orangeslice13]

What??? You couldn't be more wrong.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/ban-assault-weapons/mass-shootings.html

Conclusions​

We identified five qualifying studies that estimated the effects of state assault weapon bans on different aspects of mass shootings. Gius (2015c) found that these bans significantly reduce mass shooting deaths but have uncertain effects on injuries resulting from mass shootings. Using similar models, however, Gius (2018) found that assault weapon bans resulted in significantly fewer casualties (deaths and nonfatal injuries) from school shootings.

Loading…

www.factcheck.org

FactCheck.org, Feb. 1, 2013: The final report concluded the ban’s success in reducing crimes committed with banned guns was “mixed.” Gun crimes involving assault weapons declined. However, that decline was “offset throughout at least the late 1990s by steady or rising use of other guns equipped with [large-capacity magazines].”

Ultimately, the research concluded that it was “premature to make definitive assessments of the ban’s impact on gun crime,” largely because the law’s grandfathering of millions of pre-ban assault weapons and large-capacity magazines “ensured that the effects of the law would occur only gradually” and were “still unfolding” when the ban expired in 2004.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/173405.pdf

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting

A federal assault weapon ban was highly effective in reducing public mass shootings, reports a new Northwestern Medicine study just published in a pre-print.

news.northwestern.edu

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting​

A continuation of the federal ban could have prevented 30 public mass shootings

Apples to oranges is a ******** way to live.
Actual data says there was no significant difference in crime and the majority of “mass shootings” happened with hand guns not assault weapons

 

[TheDeeble]

lol.....Years of no discernable improvement? What if you have years of discernable improvement but gun nuts reject/ignore the data?
See @Orangeslice13

You already admitted no discernable improvement was possible.

 

[Orangeslice13]

How? The ban did not affect any of the mechanics of what you incorrectly consider an assault rifle. It only affected the cosmetics.

It’s always the same lies with the uneducated

 

[TheDeeble]

The gun report says something bad against guns! But they also used gun grabber statistics as a basis!

Gius (2018) analyzed school shooting deaths and injuries using data compiled from Klein (2012), Kalesan et al. (2017), and the Everytown for Gun Safety Support Fund.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/ban-assault-weapons/mass-shootings.html

I'm sure Luther would bask in the neutrality had the report used NRA compiled data for it's research numbers.

 

[luthervol]

Apples to oranges is a ******** way to live.
Actual data says there was no significant difference in crime and the majority of “mass shootings” happened with hand guns not assault weapons

lol.....What actual data?

I provided links.
Try this.....google "___________________________" tell us what you put in the blank, and then post two or three of the results.

 

[Orangeslice13]

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fee.org

 

[hog88]

It’s always the same lies with the uneducated

Without lies they couldn’t participate in the conversation.

 

[TheDeeble]

It is all propaganda and never explains HOW. Do better.

And it shouldn't surprise you that Luther's "conclusion" wasn't the actual conclusion. It was a cherrypicked statement put under the conclusion banner.

Considering our assessment of these findings and the relative strengths of these studies, we find inconclusive evidence for the effect of assault weapon bans on mass shootings.

]

 

[Orangeslice13]

And yet the peer reviewed studies all say there’s no proof that the ban did anything.

But sure cite the bad methodology to support your presupposed claim.

 

[Orangeslice13]

And it shouldn't surprise you that Luther's "conclusion" wasn't the actual conclusion. It was a cherrypicked statement put under the conclusion banner.


View attachment 627660]

Hey.
That’s what I was saying.

I

 

[luthervol]

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fee.org

Are you saying that there may not be agreement on if there was discernable improvement?

Imagine that.

I say there absolutely was and the data supports that conclusion.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Are you saying that there may not be agreement on if there was discernable improvement?

Imagine that.

I say there absolutely was and the data supports that conclusion.

No it doesn’t.
Bad methodology that doesn’t survive peer review isn’t proof.
It’s propaganda.



The facts aren’t with you on this one.

 

[Orangeslice13]

It’s like talking to the conspiracy theorists in the vaccine thread.