Harrison Bailey

#477
#477
BogeyVol said:
Average to below average? Ĥ is 1
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"Average to below average? He is 12th out of 15 in QBR right now in the SEC. I like Joe and hope he lives up to his potential, but to pretend he is average is whistling past the graveyard."

(I couldn't figure out a better way to fix your reply, but there it is. Thx)

Okay, I'll stand corrected that Joe's not having an average SEC QB year at all. It's well below average RIGHT AFTER Hendon Hooker had a great year.

I agree the contrast isn't easy to watch. Joe doesn't read defenses like Hendon nor does he run like Hendon. I get it.

None of that means Josh Heupel is deliberately playing Milton instead of Nico IF Nico is ready and a better QB.

I don't think Nico is ready. I don't think I need to see Nico play in a game to have that proof. I think Josh Heupel knows QBs better than me. You're welcome to think otherwise.
 
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#479
#479
orangebloodgmc said:
Wow. I have been a fan of the Vols since 1966 and at no time have I ever said one of our young men was "trash" let alone a starting QB selected and coached by Josh Heupel. But, I can see how that is something a troll would say.
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Maybe if the players didn't get paid hundreds of thousands now I would understand the sentiment
 
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#480
#480
whobethis16 said:
You really think this team will lose to UCONN and Vandy? I know 7-5 is a letdown after 10-2, but come on.
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I think Uconn and vandy is the game nico needs to get lots of playing time with the 1's. In order to help gett him ready for next year. If not we will be almost half way into the season before he will be ready or efficient.
 
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#481
#481
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
"Average to below average? He is 12th out of 15 in QBR right now in the SEC. I like Joe and hope he lives up to his potential, but to pretend he is average is whistling past the graveyard."

(I couldn't figure out a better way to fix your reply, but there it is. Thx)

Okay, I'll stand corrected that Joe's not having an average SEC QB year at all. It's well below average RIGHT AFTER Hendon Hooker had a great year.

I agree the contrast isn't easy to watch. Joe doesn't read defenses like Hendon nor does he run like Hendon. I get it.

None of that means Josh Heupel is deliberately playing Milton instead of Nico IF Nico is ready and a better QB.

I don't think Nico is ready. I don't think I need to see Nico play in a game to have that proof. I think Josh Heupel knows QBs better than me. You're welcome to think otherwise.
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Lol. Thx. My phone wouldn't allow me to fix the post for some reason.

I'm not saying play Nico. Not at all. Pretty sure Joe is the best option we have at a starting QB right now period. We just need him to be manageable at this point and minimize any hurt.

I'm just not ready to minimize his current issues. I do believe he is his own worst enemy right now. He seems to be late on almost everything in the pass scheme. Hooker had an uncanny ability to know almost immediately where to go with the ball. Milton "usually" is successful if option 1 is there, but past that he's playing catch up and it shows. Behind or inaccuracy in throws, etc.

If he gets to where he is capable of and the receivers do their job for 60 minutes, and the run game stays where it is, this team will be very hard to beat.
 
#482
#482
Raebo said:
So you want to bench all the seniors for the rest of the year so the “future” can develop. Let’s do that starting with our game against BAMA. Great Idea (not).
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He's had 6 years! 6 years! He's bad. I said nothing about the rest of the team. The point you're trying to make is not valid. So dumb, i'm sorry.
 
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#483
#483
BogeyVol said:
Lol. Thx. My phone wouldn't allow me to fix the post for some reason.

I'm not saying play Nico. Not at all. Pretty sure Joe is the best option we have at a starting QB right now period. We just need him to be manageable at this point and minimize any hurt.

I'm just not ready to minimize his current issues. I do believe he is his own worst enemy right now. He seems to be late on almost everything in the pass scheme. Hooker had an uncanny ability to know almost immediately where to go with the ball. Milton "usually" is successful if option 1 is there, but past that he's playing catch up and it shows. Behind or inaccuracy in throws, etc.

If he gets to where he is capable of and the receivers do their job for 60 minutes, and the run game stays where it is, this team will be very hard to beat.
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I've tried not to paint Joe as more than he is. And I'm open to being called out when I do. Thanks.

The issue for me is the comments are really directed at Coach Heupel, not Joe. Joe doesn't make the depth chart.

I think we are getting just about the best we're going to get from Joe. I hope there's better decision making, better route syncing, and Joe uses his legs more, but I'm not holding my breath. This year's offense is really on the RBs.
 
#484
#484
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'm pretty sure Heupel isn't coaching the team for your excitement at seeing "the future."

BTW, if Nico becomes the starter, it's "the present" you're watching, not the future. 🤦‍♂️
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I forget who said it (probably several have said similar) but something along the lines of:

“Only the present moment matters. The past cannot be changed, the future cannot be predicted.”

Or

“One should focus only on doing what has to be done in the present moment. A person’s life is nothing more than a succession of moments.”

I’ve heard a lot of coaches talk about resetting from one play to the next, or one game to the next, our coaches included. I think that’s a similar idea.

Also I believe the Stoics were big on focusing only on things within one’s control. One might argue that the only thing anyone ever can control is what they do in the present.
 
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#490
#490
VolFreakJosh said:
If y’all haven’t figured out DeadbyDayLight is a troll by now, then you’re wasting your time.
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sjt18 said:
You seem to be "inaccurate" at times. Should we call you "trash"?
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sjt18 said:
Doesn't justify putting it all on Milton. NEVER justifies calling a Vol that has put as much heart into the program as Milton has... "trash".
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He is trash and I'm sorry these true words have so offended you.

This team has to play like the 2000 Ravens because they are so limited by the QB
 
#492
#492
sjt18 said:
I am hard to "offend". But the fact is that what you said is stupid. "Trash" is a personal insult not an objective football related criticism.

So the one person you've demonstrated to be "trash"... is you.
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Ok, Joe Milton sucks at playing QB and will never get a second look by an NFL team when his time is over.

Does that make it more football related?
 
#494
#494
DeadByDaylightFan said:
Ok, Joe Milton sucks at playing QB and will never get a second look by an NFL team when his time is over.

Does that make it more football related?
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No. It just makes you look more trashy.

Milton isn't playing well. I've said that many times and in a lot of ways. Your predictions about his future or apparent dislike of him personally doesn't add anything to the conversation. It just shows you to be a "trashy" person.


And honestly... the NFL drafted Levis and Richardson. Milton's numbers are on pace to be BETTER than Richardson's... and he has a stronger arm. Someone will take him on physical potential alone.
 
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#496
#496
JHuntVols said:
The principle is not and has never been "try out everyone on the roster in a live game to determine who's better" as that's a) impractical and b) unnecessary for a lot of football positions. Again, that's because the only positions on the field that never sub out are almost always the QB and most of the time the offensive line. In other words, you have game tape of players 2 - 3 deep on the chart for all but a few positions every team, every year. You never addressed the point of why a coach would change the primary defender on specific receivers in the middle of the game, or you can't address the entire concept of sub packages for situational football because your view point is simply this, "Coach says best practice = starter = best player." However, we all know that good coaches constantly review game tape, especially the game tapes of ones that they think is significantly underperforming expectations. I say significant because we're not talking about Milton being able to produce on a level like Hooker did, but the discussion is about if he's even a starting QB in the SEC. If someone is underperforming that badly, do you think the coach should care how said player performs in practice? It's like designating an NBA player as your shooter because he can hit 100s of 3s in a row during practice, but he only hits the basket at a 28% clip in the actual games.

If I could get Heupel in a room alone for questions, then the first I would ask him is if he really thinks Milton is doing well enough to be competitive with other good teams. I'd be willing to bet my house on him thinking that Milton isn't good enough. Why? I refuse to believe that a coach with the resume you keep referring to concludes that Milton is an "adequate" QB. That would then lead me to ask, "So you foresee Nico playing below that level if you put him in a live game situation?" If he says yes, then that's frightening to me for next year. He implies we have a QB that was ranked number 2 in the nation that can't understand the simple offense he has constructed for Milton.... even with Nico being enrolled and with the team for like 10 months now? That's the only explanation that I can come up with personally, and that's not good news for anyone here.
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Clueless
 
#497
#497
BanditVol said:
Great points, especially about Peterman.

If I recall correctly, Dobbs entered the game in 2014 and was a sophomore. I was at that game, and he actually made it a respectable loss. He started from then on, and the rest as they say is history.
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He mopped up vs Alabama as a freshman and you could see the raw talent from the deep ball he threw as well as his mobility.
 
#498
#498
whobethis16 said:
Do you think Tee Martin was a good QB, despite his having 9 out of 25 games where he completed 50% or less of his passes? That man was a career 55% completion guy with a 2:1 TD:INT rate. That's not great, yet so many on here claim he's a Top 3 QB. All of Milton's numbers are better than Martin's, especially his 5.5:1 TD:INT rate at Tennessee (2.7:1 overall).
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That was a completely different offense. I'm not knocking Joe, but Tee was throwing the ball downfield at an extremely high rate. Plus, numbers don't take into account the clutch plays he made with his legs against Syracuse and Florida his junior year. His Sr. year he played the first month of the season with a separated non throwing shoulder and he no longer had Peerless Price and Jermaine Copeland. Fulmer had a converted TE and a couple of slot receivers starting in his place.

Look at Andy Kelly. Always considered a Vol great yet if you look at his numbers, there's a guy who threw more INTs than he did TD passes Tee was an ALL SEC QB his senior year. How did that happen if the media and other coaches thought he wasn't that good? He made plays.

I don't want to open that whole debate again because it's been going around in circles for the last 25 years, but you have to take into context the era of football and the offense he played in in comparison to his talents. We had a QB with a big arm whose best attribute was that he ran like an SEC RB, and he's out there running a pro style offense. All you need to do to understand the mindset is listen to Coach Matthews recall the day that he was in the meeting room when Fulmer and Sanders decided to recruit Joey Matthews over Michael Vick to get what the coaching mindset was at the time.

Take a look at Vick's passing stats in college. Without context, you would say he wasn't anything to write home about. 56% completion rate and a higher TD/INT ratio than Martin had, and on paper his rushing numbers weren't outstanding. So why was the guy a Heisman finalist and a 1st round draft pick? Because he could beat you in multiple ways and take over a game. Martin was no Vick running the ball, but he added another dimension that we needed to seperate us from the rest of the pack. Opposing defenses at the time were quoted as saying that we were more difficult to defend against in 1998-99 because we had a QB that could beat you in a variety of ways, as opposed to your traditional offense. While Martin wasn't on Vick's level of talent, he had the ability to take over a game against a top 10 opponent like UGA and Bama his senior year and he was SEC Offensive player of the week both times, as well as completely dominating Noter Dame.
 
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#499
#499
perico said:
That was a completely different offense. I'm not knocking Joe, but Tee was throwing the ball downfield at an extremely high rate. Plus, numbers don't take into account the clutch plays he made with his legs against Syracuse and Florida his junior year. His Sr. year he played the first month of the season with a separated non throwing shoulder and he no longer had Peerless Price and Jermaine Copeland. Fulmer had a converted TE and a couple of slot receivers starting in his place.

Look at Andy Kelly. Always considered a Vol great yet if you look at his numbers, there's a guy who threw more INTs than he did TD passes Tee was an ALL SEC QB his senior year. How did that happen if the media and other coaches thought he wasn't that good? He made plays.

I don't want to open that whole debate again because it's been going around in circles for the last 25 years, but you have to take into context the era of football and the offense he played in in comparison to his talents. We had a QB with a big arm whose best attribute was that he ran like an SEC RB, and he's out there running a pro style offense. All you need to do to understand the mindset is listen to Coach Matthews recall the day that he was in the meeting room when Fulmer and Sanders decided to recruit Joey Matthews over Michael Vick to get what the coaching mindset was at the time.

Take a look at Vick's passing stats in college. Without context, you would say he wasn't anything to write home about. 56% completion rate and a higher TD/INT ratio than Martin had, and on paper his rushing numbers weren't outstanding. So why was the guy a Heisman finalist and a 1st round draft pick? Because he could beat you in multiple ways and take over a game. Martin was no Vick running the ball, but he added another dimension that we needed to seperate us from the rest of the pack. Opposing defenses at the time were quoted as saying that we were more difficult to defend against in 1998-99 because we had a QB that could beat you in a variety of ways, as opposed to your traditional offense. While Martin wasn't on Vick's level of talent, he had the ability to take over a game against a top 10 opponent like UGA and Bama his senior year and he was SEC Offensive player of the week both times, as well as completely dominating Noter Dame.
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Milton is missing the best receivers from last year, along with the best receiver on this team. And please provide proof Martin played with a separated shoulder, because I've just watched the first Tennessee drives of the Wyoming and Florida games of 1999 and nothing was said about an injury. That's half of the "first month of the season". **Sidenote, Tee just GREATLY overthrew 2 WRs on that first drive, much like how Milton gets absolutely slammed for**.

Tee, while it was a great thing for him, had no business being 1st team All-SEC in 1999. He was 5th in completions, 6th in attempts, 7th in completion percentage, 4th in yards, tied for 1st in yards/attempt, 4th in adjusted yards/attempt, tied for 6th in TDs, tied for 7th in INTs, and 6th in passing efficiency. You can't honestly say, objectively, that those numbers warrant being 1st team All-SEC. The only saving grace he had was 9 rushing TDs, with 3 of them being 3 yards or less which tells me he can sneak. He did have 3 over 10, so kudos for that.

And you're comparing Vick's 585 and 617 yards rushing his two years to Martin's 287 and 317? Martin's combined rushing yards are only 19 yards more than Vick's lowest year.

But the biggest argument is Milton is not accurate. His higher completion % and fewer INTs shows he's more accurate than Martin, but when one points that out, we get all these revisionist/orange-glasses memories.
 
#500
#500
sjt18 said:
No. It just makes you look more trashy.

Milton isn't playing well. I've said that many times and in a lot of ways. Your predictions about his future or apparent dislike of him personally doesn't add anything to the conversation. It just shows you to be a "trashy" person.


And honestly... the NFL drafted Levis and Richardson. Milton's numbers are on pace to be BETTER than Richardson's... and he has a stronger arm. Someone will take him on physical potential alone.
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If Milton would use his legs more then he would be OK

You don't need to be a great passer in college to get points
 
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