milohimself
RIP CITY
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- Sep 18, 2004
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I agree that the cost of compliance is out of control.
How about this -- instead of a flat tax, let's literally get rid of all deductions and exemptions of any kind for individuals making, say, over $50,000 a year, regardless of source, and for companies with revenues of over $5 million a year. Keep the graduated rate structure, but lower the rates across the board by half of what the loss of the deductions and exemptions is.
Everyone pays a lower rate. De minimis cost of compliance saves everyone money, as well. Dependable and stable. And no politicians carving out exemptions for their contributors makes the whole thing much more transparent.
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I agree that the cost of compliance is out of control.
How about this -- instead of a flat tax, let's literally get rid of all deductions and exemptions of any kind for individuals making, say, over $50,000 a year, regardless of source, and for companies with revenues of over $5 million a year. Keep the graduated rate structure, but lower the rates across the board by half of what the loss of the deductions and exemptions is.
Everyone pays a lower rate. De minimis cost of compliance saves everyone money, as well. Dependable and stable. And no politicians carving out exemptions for their contributors makes the whole thing much more transparent.
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You mean like the Ryan plan advocates? I knew you'd come around. Not sure why you want a massive middle class tax hike though...
Do something about the corporate income tax rate and capital gains and i'll go along with it.
I agree that the cost of compliance is out of control.
How about this -- instead of a flat tax, let's literally get rid of all deductions and exemptions of any kind for individuals making, say, over $50,000 a year, regardless of source, and for companies with revenues of over $5 million a year. Keep the graduated rate structure, but lower the rates across the board by half of what the loss of the deductions and exemptions is.
Everyone pays a lower rate. De minimis cost of compliance saves everyone money, as well. Dependable and stable. And no politicians carving out exemptions for their contributors makes the whole thing much more transparent.
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Why punish achievers?
Why don't we just give a standard deduction of the median income so that the bottom half pays nothing then say 25% of all marginal income over that amount? Or maybe 150% of the median income... or 200%?
I see the point about protecting those who are most vulnerable from "losing" but after you guarantee that basic protection I do not like the idea of gov't getting to choose winners/losers. I also do not like the class warfare that gets waged with the graduated rates.
What you propose is better than what we have now but not as good as a more "blindly just" system of taxation.
For corporations, just charge .75% of revenue and let it go at that. That's roughly equivalent to a 20-25% tax on profits for the avg company.
If these rates are not high enough to eliminate every other tax except for tariffs and perhaps use fees then raise them. I would like to see a completely transparent system where even the most simple minded citizen understands that taxes are being raised or lowered... iow's politicians won't be able to hide increases or cuts for their buddies.
You mean you do not think people who earn more, make better decisions, embrace better values, work harder, etc deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labors?Our definition of a "just" or "fair" system of taxation is not the same.
What we have now isn't fair because they can get out of it. What you propose isn't fair either.I admit that what I am proposing would probably hit the wealthiest and big corporations that enjoy so many bought and paid for exemptions a bit harder than lower and middle class folks.
Because it wouldn't. It is pretty simple. The current code has 75K pages with most of them dedicated to creating some caveat that the rich and large corporations are uniquely positioned to take advantage of.I honestly don't know why conservatives won't admit that a flat tax or the brand of "fair tax" being bandied about now would result in lower taxation of the wealthy and higher taxation of the poor and middle classes. Be honest about it.
Yes there is.... and a businessman like Cain has lived it so long that he thinks it should be as intuitive to you and others like you as it is to him. When you are in a competitive business, the market will go toward equillibrium. Pricing will be optimized by supply, demand, and costs. If costs go down, someone to get more cash flow will lower their prices followed by everyone else who wants to stay in business. As we have pointed out to you ad nauseum, taxes are a cost for businesses. Costs go down... it changes the price points for the market.Cain gets mealy mouthed when it comes to that and keeps redirecting with some vague notion that the savings to corporations for example will be passed on to the middle class in the form of lower prices. No proof.
And its a rephrasing of trickle down theory that we've heard before, and of which people are very suspicious.
Link?
Simplified Income Tax Rates. In contrast to the six tax rates in the current code, the simplified tax has just two rates: 10 percent on adjusted gross income [AGI] (as defined below) up to $100,000 for joint filers, and $50,000 for single filers; and 25 percent on taxable income above these amounts. These tax brackets are adjusted each year by a cost-of-living adjustment as measured by increases in the consumer price index [CPI]. (See Table 7 and Table 8 on the next page for comparisons with current tax brackets.) Taxable income equals gross earnings minus a standard deduction and personal exemption.
Broader Tax Base. The new, simplified code eliminates nearly all existing tax deductions, exclusions, and other special provisions, but retains the health care tax credit described above. As a result, it broadens the base of taxable income, allowing for lower income tax rates. Lower rates reduce disincentives to work and increase earnings.
Generous Standard Deductions and Personal Exemptions. The standard deduction is $25,000 for joint tax filers, $12,500 for single filers. The personal exemption is $3,500. The combination is equivalent to a $39,000 exemption for a family of four.
I'm not sure trickle down works. I'm sure I'll get flamed for it though.
Cutting rates - fewer brackets - elimination of most deductions, credits. Pretty much what you said.
The Tax Foundation - Ryan Plan Smartly Marries Tax Reform with Spending Reform
Here's more
The Roadmap Plan | A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans
I said I wasn't sure. VN poli board is pretty well sure of everything. I have no idea what will get us out of this mess. Remember that we can't afford to run a giant deficit.
No flame. I am just curious in what respect you don't think it works. Reagan took over an economy that was probably worse in the relative sense than what Obama inherited. The Keynesian failures of LBJ, Nixon, Ford, and Carter had crippled the economy. A new term was created to account for something Progressive economic theory had produced that few thought possible- stagflation.
Reagan's policies were decidedly supply side. As JFK before him said while cutting taxes significantly to get the economy out of recession... "a rising tide lifts all boats". And... it did.
If the economy is expanding, opportunities are expanding, income classes are fluid based on personal performance, and everyone's standard of living rises... how exactly is that "not working"?
The term "poverty" has been redefined in the last generation or two of public discourse to incorporate the ideas of equality and stratification. It is impossible to deny that the lowest, lower, and middle class citizens in the West are better off today than they were fifty years ago, much less centuries ago. However, while quality of life is improving across the board for all citizens in the West, the rate at which it is improving for the upper class is outpacing the rate at which it is improving for those below the upper class. This is what individuals and movements have latched on to. The irony is this:
They are condemning the upper class for upper class greed, when the only reason for condemnation is due to envy and jealousy (not a subpar quality of life).