Heating and air

#26
#26
We have votes for basically each system worth looking at. There's been advancements in longevity and efficiency in all.
I need to just kick myself in my indecisive arse and pick one before my old one stops completely.

I've reached a point where I hate making a decision on anything that I will have more than a couple of years.
Hvac, cars, property.. Good thing I chose my wife when I was younger, I'd die a lonely man if I were doing it now.
 
#27
#27
chargervol said:
We have votes for basically each system worth looking at. There's been advancements in longevity and efficiency in all.
I need to just kick myself in my indecisive arse and pick one before my old one stops completely.

I've reached a point where I hate making a decision on anything that I will have more than a couple of years.
Hvac, cars, property.. Good thing I chose my wife when I was younger, I'd die a lonely man if I were doing it now.
Click to expand...

Are you on the lake?
 
#28
#28
Involuntary had the correct response. Dual fuel, natural gas back up for heat pump. That is, if you can get natural gas in your location. Cost savings may not exist if you have a propane backup, but the heat feels warmer.

The heat pump supplies the heating from outside air down to your set point, say 35 degrees, and then the natural gas takes over, saving the cost of running an electrical heat strip backup when it gets really cold.
 
#29
#29
I do have natural gas already in my home for the fireplaces.
Invol, not on the lake, it's between a quarter to half mile away.
 
#30
#30
chargervol said:
I do have natural gas already in my home for the fireplaces.
Invol, not on the lake, it's between a quarter to half mile away.
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You might look into geothermal too. You would either dig a well or you could go with a closed loop system.
 
#33
#33
InVOLuntary said:
Probably. Depends on what kind of deal he can get. I would go duel fuel if it were me.
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I agree. I would have if natural gas was available. I don't believe heating cost is an advantage with propane as a backup, but it is with natural gas. Of course, the heat feels warmer out of the vents with either nat. gas or propane.
 
#34
#34
InVOLuntary said:
I have to disagree. The sound is very comparative to a hotel unit. You don't hear the compressor cycle on but the fan is very similar.

Charger, I encourage you to find one installed and experience it for yourself. I would never want one in my bedroom. If you come to Knoxville, I will gladly take you to experience one.
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I wouldn't say it is as loud as a hotel wall unit. He is welcome to stop by my building off Straw Plains exit. We have 9 mini-splits in our building that cool all the server rooms. We have EMI and Mitsubishi brands. The EMI brand is junk. Already changed two fan motors in two of them and they are less than two years old.

If I had to choose personally I wouldn't use the mini-split in his situation. He already has a solid trunk line with flex coming off of it feeding his rooms. Basically changing out the unit and he is going. If he changed to mini-split all the condenser lines would need routed through the house from the condenser unit to the air handler. Also have to get a condensate drain line from the air handler back to outside.

Another problem is the zone mini-splits that uses three or four different airhandlers in different rooms per one condenser. Besides what I mentioned above needing run to each airhandler, if the condesor goes out all your airhandlers hooked to that condenser will no longer work. To compare, I realize that if your outdoor unit goes out your air or heat won't work in your house but a heat pump or package unit is way more reliable than a mini-split.


And yes, nothing compares to geothermal, I'm just waiting on hitting the lottery to install it. Lol
 
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#35
#35
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I wouldn't say it is as loud as a hotel wall unit. He is welcome to stop by my building off Straw Plains exit. We have 9 mini-splits in our building that cool all the server rooms. We have EMI and Mitsubishi brands. The EMI brand is junk. Already changed two fan motors in two of them and they are less than two years old.

If I had to choose personally I wouldn't use the mini-split in his situation. He already has a solid trunk line with flex coming off of it feeding his rooms. Basically changing out the unit and he is going. If he changed to mini-split all the condenser lines would need routed through the house from the condenser unit to the air handler. Also have to get a condensate drain from the air handler back to outside.

Another problem is the zone mini-splits that uses three or four different airhandlers in different rooms per one condenser. Besides what I mentioned above needing run to each airhandler, if the condesor goes out all your airhandlers hooked to that condenser will no longer work. To compare, I realize that if your outdoor unit goes out your air or heat won't work in your house but a heat pump or package unit is way more reliable than a mini-split.


And yes, nothing compares to geothermal, I'm just waiting on hitting the lottery to install it. Lol
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I don't think it's as loud but it is comparable. For all the reasons you mention I would go duel fuel. One of his concerns is power outages. He can still have heat with gas and a small generator. I have propane. Two split systems. We live a little bit out in the boonies and power outages, especially in the winter are an issue. I rigged a system where I can plug in a small generator and power my furnaces. Using my breaker panel I can even back feed some other circuits too. But, I know my way around these systems and electrical panels so I understand it's not for everyone. An electrician can make it very simple for the homeowner with a transfer switch. He gets the ease of installation utilizing his existing duct work, the efficiency of the heat pump during the transitional times of the year, the warm air and efficiency of the natural gas in the coldest days/nights, and the heat if the power goes out (if he chooses to do the generator).
 
#36
#36
InVOLuntary said:
I don't think it's as loud but it is comparable. For all the reasons you mention I would go duel fuel. One of his concerns is power outages. He can still have heat with gas and a small generator. I have propane. Two split systems. We live a little bit out in the boonies and power outages, especially in the winter are an issue. I rigged a system where I can plug in a small generator and power my furnaces. Using my breaker panel I can even back feed some other circuits too. But, I know my way around these systems and electrical panels so I understand it's not for everyone. An electrician can make it very simple for the homeowner with a transfer switch. He gets the ease of installation utilizing his existing duct work, the efficiency of the heat pump during the transitional times of the year, the warm air and efficiency of the natural gas in the coldest days/nights, and the heat if the power goes out (if he chooses to do the generator).
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Can't argue against gas heat. My unit on my house has gas heat. I'm in chargers situation as my package unit is 20 years old this year. I have changed the igniter a couple of times. Changed the flame sensor a couple if times. Changed the capacitor out once and the main board once. Since I can work on stuff like that it doesn't bother me it's 20 years old and when you can diagnose the problem yourself it eliminates a company coming out and saying the unit is bad which happens a lot just to make money. The compressor is doing fine which is the deal breaker if a unit can be fixed or has to be replaced.
 
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#37
#37
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Can't argue against gas heat. My unit on my house has gas heat. I'm in chargers situation as my package unit is 20 years old this year. I have changed the igniter a couple of times. Changed the flame sensor a couple if times. Changed the capacitor out once and the main board once. Since I can work on stuff like that it doesn't bother me it's 20 years old and when you can diagnose the problem yourself it eliminates a company coming out and saying the unit is bad which happens a lot just to make money. The compressor is doing fine which is the deal breaker if a unit can be fixed or has to be replaced.
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Same here. Mine were new in 91. Changed the furnace on one and the evaporator on one. Saved the old one for parts. Used the igniter fall before last.
 
#38
#38
Gas furnaces last a long time. They really don't run that much if you have a dual fuel and the heat pump is heating down to 35 or so.
 
#39
#39
Sorta hijacking this thread hoping to get some help for my HVAC issues...our breaker recently started tripping after the air had been on for awhile...called the HVAC guys they come out and check everything and say no issues with my unit. They said I might need to replace the thermostat. Would that cause a breaker to trip?
 
#40
#40
VolnJC said:
Sorta hijacking this thread hoping to get some help for my HVAC issues...our breaker recently started tripping after the air had been on for awhile...called the HVAC guys they come out and check everything and say no issues with my unit. They said I might need to replace the thermostat. Would that cause a breaker to trip?
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I would doubt the thermostat would trip a breaker. If I had to guess with the limited amount of information we have I'd say you have a bad capacitor on your outdoor unit.
 
#41
#41
VolnJC said:
Sorta hijacking this thread hoping to get some help for my HVAC issues...our breaker recently started tripping after the air had been on for awhile...called the HVAC guys they come out and check everything and say no issues with my unit. They said I might need to replace the thermostat. Would that cause a breaker to trip?
Click to expand...

I've never seen a thermostat trip a breaker as it's on the low voltage side of the unit. The breaker will trip when the unit pulls more amps than the breaker is rated for. Here's the most common.

The breaker could be going bad. Had my dryer breaker do this just last October.

Do you change your return filter often? Most filters you buy say they're 3 month filters. I change mine monthly.

Has the condenser coils on your outside unit been cleaned? Should be cleaned once a year.

Fan motor could be shorting. If a motor runs hot for to long it could melt the wire insulatiion causing your electrical short.

The compressor takes a huge boost of electricity to start it. This is done by a capacitor. The capacitor could be failing which makes the compressor require more amps to start.

The compressor could be grounded. This is where an electrical winding in the compressor has broken and is touching the inside wall of the compressor. This is the worst case scenario if the unit isn't under warranty. Your better off buying a complete new unit for the money than just a compressor.


JC, does the breaker trip immediately when the unit goes to start?

Edit: How old is your HVAC unit?
 
#42
#42
InVOLuntary said:
I would doubt the thermostat would trip a breaker. If I had to guess with the limited amount of information we have I'd say you have a bad capacitor on your outdoor unit.
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Agreed. I'm use to seeing them just go out and look like the top imploded within like this.
 

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#43
#43
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I've never seen a thermostat trip a breaker as it's on the low voltage side of the unit. The breaker will trip when the unit pulls more amps than the breaker is rated for. Here's the most common

The breaker could be going bad. Had my dryer breaker do this just last October.

Do you change your return filter often? Most filters you buy say they're 3 month filters. I change mine monthly.

Has the condenser coils on your outside unit been cleaned? Should be cleaned once a year.

Fan motor could be shorting. If a motor runs hot for to long it could melt the wire insulatiion causing your electrical short.

The compressor takes a huge boost of electricity to start it. This is done by a capacitor. The capacitor could be failing which makes the compressor require more amps to start.

The compressor could be grounded. This is where an electrical winding in the compressor has broken and is touching the inside wall of the compressor. This is the worst case scenario if the unit isn't under warranty. Your better off buying a complete new unit for the money than just a compressor.


JC, does the breaker trip immediately when the unit goes to start?

Edit: How old is your HVAC unit?
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I change the filter every 3 months..
it's about 8 years old
No it generally trips once or twice a day usually in the afternoon and evening I might change the breaker this weekend that's really the only thing I can do on my own.
 
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#44
#44
VolnJC said:
I change the filter every 3 months..it's about 8 years old. I think.No it generally trips once or twice a day usually in the afternoon and evening I might change the breaker this weekend that's really the only thing I can do on my own.
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I could lay my hand/finger on my dryer breaker and could feel it was hot after it tripped. Try that if you feel comfortable doing it and see if it's heating up. Be careful changing the breaker out if you attempt it.

Without being there the capacitor may wind up the culprit. My unit is from 97. The original capacitor blew in 2011. Since I have changed two. The second time I went with a bigger capacitor. My cousin sales HVAC parts at East Tennessee Metals and said since the green energy stuff started (AL Gore) they don't last like they use to with the new "safer" oil in them.

Edit; Getting your condensor coils cleaned is important also. Just like the filter it helps the unit breath and shed off the heat.

What company told you it was the thermostat kicking a breaker if you don't mind me asking?
 
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#45
#45
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I could lay my hand/finger on my dryer breaker and could feel it was hot after it tripped. Try that if you feel comfortable doing it and see if it's heating up. Be careful changing the breaker out if you attempt it.

Without being there the capacitor may wind up the culprit. My unit is from 97. The original capacitor blew in 2011. Since I have changed two. The second time I went with a bigger capacitor. My cousin sales HVAC parts at East Tennessee Metals and said since the green energy stuff started (AL Gore) they don't last like they use to with the new "safer" oil in them.

Edit; Getting your condensor coils cleaned is important also. Just like the filter it helps the unit breath and shed off the heat.

What company told you it was the thermostat kicking a breaker if you don't mind me asking?
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Budget Heating and Air out of Jeff City
 
#48
#48
VolnJC said:
I had the breaker changed today and it didn't help...so I guess I'm probably going to have to buy another unit
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I wouldn't do that withought getting another heating and air company out for a second opinion. All the scenarios I listed besides a bad compressor are fixable at a fraction of the cost of a new unit.
 
#49
#49
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I wouldn't do that withought getting another heating and air company out for a second opinion. All the scenarios I listed besides a bad compressor are fixable at a fraction of the cost of a new unit.
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This^^^^. A capacitor is a $20 part. I can't imagine the compressor is shorted out if it runs at all. I think it's probably something simple.
 
#50
#50
Not to derail, but we are having issues with the unit that services our main floor and basement. It's probably 13 years old and is apparently leaking freon. My HVAC guys tell me that replacing the coils (?) is not a good investment for $2000, due to the age of the system. So, they have been out three times to refill it in the past year, but it has only been two months since the last refill and we already have warm air.

The choice we have is apparently to continue forking over $200+ a visit for freon or to get a new unit (which they quoted as very expensive -- circa $8k IIRC). I just wonder if I should get a second quote on a system.
 
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