Help Me Understand ...

#1
VolinArizona

VolinArizona

not in Arizona anymore
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
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#1
... what I am missing.

I hope I explain this as well as I did yesterday to some friends.

1. We have so many illegal immigrants coming into this country, taking jobs "Americans don't want." Do they even pay income tax?

2. We have so many Americans on welfare who can work, but don't.

Why don't we make the welfare departments a little better and little more involved to find the people who are mooching off the government, and give them the ultimatum of: work or you get nothing from us.

The majority should not be hindered because of the lazy. I can see this kind of improvement as being a 3 or 4 fold advantage.

It sounds too simple, so I'm sure I'm missing something. Help me find it.

Also, in a way, this could help with stopping the outsourcing of jobs. These people on welfare who CAN work, need to work. Period.
 
#2
#2
VolinArizona said:
... what I am missing.

I hope I explain this as well as I did yesterday to some friends.

1. We have so many illegal immigrants coming into this country, taking jobs "Americans don't want." Do they even pay income tax?

2. We have so many Americans on welfare who can work, but don't.

Why don't we make the welfare departments a little better and little more involved to find the people who are mooching off the government, and give them the ultimatum of: work or you get nothing from us.

The majority should not be hindered because of the lazy. I can see this kind of improvement as being a 3 or 4 fold advantage.

It sounds too simple, so I'm sure I'm missing something. Help me find it.

Also, in a way, this could help with stopping the outsourcing of jobs. These people on welfare who CAN work, need to work. Period.
Click to expand...
you're apparently a racist
 
#4
#4
VolinArizona said:
I know it's sarcasm, but I missed the basis for the joke. :)
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generally, any comments on the welfare system being broken because there are too many qualified workers just drawing checks are met with the racism finger from the hardcore liberal crowd. They couldn't be more incorrect, but they still cry it from the alleys every time this debate arises.
 
#5
#5
BigPapaVol said:
generally, any comments on the welfare system being broken because there are too many qualified workers just drawing checks are met with the racism finger from the hardcore liberal crowd. They couldn't be more incorrect, but they still cry it from the alleys every time this debate arises.
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Gotcha.

Why hasn't the issue become a bigger debate in the mainstream coverage of the last 6 months? We have a huge deficit, with two of the factors being illegal immigration and the crappy welfare situation. This needs to be addressed, and IMO, these two things are the basis for our economic problems.
 
#6
#6
BigPapaVol said:
generally, any comments on the welfare system being broken because there are too many qualified workers just drawing checks are met with the racism finger from the hardcore liberal crowd. They couldn't be more incorrect, but they still cry it from the alleys every time this debate arises.
Click to expand...

That's exactly right, because when you can't back up your argument with sustance (and you're a lib), you always play the race card.
 
#7
#7
1. Abuses in the welfare system should be identified and eliminated. Nothing racist about that.

2. Many illegal immigrants do pay income taxes. Such payments are now one of the conditions for adustment under several provisions of the INA.

3. Federal welfare programs are already contingent on the recipient actively looking for employment and are not infinite (see: Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.)
 
#8
#8
ksushalovesthevols said:
1. Abuses in the welfare system should be identified and eliminated. Nothing racist about that.

2. Many illegal immigrants do pay income taxes. Such payments are now one of the conditions for adustment under several provisions of the INA.

3. Federal welfare programs are already contingent on the recipient actively looking for employment and are not infinite (see: Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.)
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Do you honestly believe the welfare system isn't abused?
 
#9
#9
I know they are contingent on the recipient looking for work, but I believe people are mooching even with the provisions.
 
#11
#11
the actively looking for employment provision was written only to justify continuing payments FOREVER. Not to get people to look for work.
 
#12
#12
VolinArizona said:
I know they are contingent on the recipient looking for work, but I believe people are mooching even with the provisions.
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It happens, though since the introduction of the law, the number of recipients went down by nearly 60%. It was a step in the right direction for eliminating abuse of the system. The federal government is constantly defrauded by the citizenry and while we should sure as hell put in all the filters we can, I am not sure fraud of the welfare system will (or can) be elimitated entirely.
 
#14
#14
ksushalovesthevols said:
It happens, though since the introduction of the law, the number of recipients went down by nearly 60%. It was a step in the right direction for eliminating abuse of the system. The federal government is constantly defrauded by the citizenry and while we should sure as hell put in all the filters we can, I am not sure fraud of the welfare system will (or can) be elimitated entirely.
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Putting a clamp down on illegal immigration would certainly help.
 
#16
#16
volsforever27 said:
Putting a clamp down on illegal immigration would certainly help.
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:crazy: How can you spout off these things with such unabashed conviction when you are so grossly uninformed?!

Illegal immigrants are ineligible for welfare. VERY few are actually successful in obtaining these benefits through fraudulent means with the onset of the new I-9 regulations and REAL ID.
 
#17
#17
the fraud can be eliminated with people working in the system to save gov't money. provide beancounters and limited budgets by office, and the wasting will drop dramatically.

If the rolls dropped 60%, why has9mt it been celebrated and why haven't payouts gone down? Reason: that number is trash statistical garbage put out to help hide an utter disgrace.

Our welfare system is one of the biggest failures in American History.
 
#20
#20
ksushalovesthevols said:
:crazy: How can you spout off these things with such unabashed conviction when you are so grossly uninformed?!

Illegal immigrants are ineligible for welfare. VERY few are actually successful in obtaining these benefits through fraudulent means with the onset of the new I-9 regulations and REAL ID.
Click to expand...

Your posts make me smile... thank you for that. If you don't think that illegals are getting assistance, then you need to go to any local DHS. Not only are they getting it, it's easier for them than an actual citizen. But you're right, I'm uninformed... :lolabove:
 
#21
#21
sush,

hve you ever even heard of someone being removed from welfare?

obtw, section 8 housing money is a huge pile of entitlement money thatoperates under entirely different rules.
 
#23
#23
BigPapaVol said:
the fraud can be eliminated with people working in the system to save gov't money. provide beancounters and limited budgets by office, and the wasting will drop dramatically.

If the rolls dropped 60%, why has9mt it been celebrated and why haven't payouts gone down? Reason: that number is trash statistical garbage put out to help hide an utter disgrace.

Our welfare system is one of the biggest failures in American History.
Click to expand...
The number of people receiving or not receiving a benefit is a pretty objective measure. It's not something one can fudge with a different statistical approach. Payouts have also gone down. (That you might be able to argue, based on whether we're considering the gross payout to all recipients or the individual payouts on a pro rata basis.)

I agree that funding should be allocated to ensure that as few people as possible are getting undeserved benefits. That's something that conservatives (who tend to vote their wallet) and liberals (who tend to vote their consience) can agree upon. Fraud causes material wastement of federal funds -- tax payer revenues that can be diverted to help individuals who genuinely require assistance.
 
#24
#24
BigPapaVol said:
sush,

hve you ever even heard of someone being removed from welfare?

obtw, section 8 housing money is a huge pile of entitlement money thatoperates under entirely different rules.
Click to expand...

Yes, as a matter of fact I have. I frequently encountered that situation in my work at legal clinics and legal aids. Some terminations were legitimate, some weren't.
 
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