Hillary claims she is being attacked.

#26
#26
MontereyVol said:
She has never shed a tear her entire political life (all 35 years of it) until somone told her to soften up.
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Does being the First Lady of Arkansas and the First Lady of the US count has a "political life?" Her real experience, in my opinion, is restricted to her terms as a US Senator from NY.
 
#27
#27
MontereyVol said:
If that is the case, then I can now blame her for all the idiotic mistakes that administration did to us. (or what is coming to us). I will comfortably say Bill will eventually go down as one of the worst presidents in history. (right behind Bush)[/QUOTE]

Bill Clinton is diffenetly ahead of Bush, both of them. I would put him ahead of Carter, Nixon and Ford too. Doesn't mean he is a saint or a nice guy. He is hated by conservatives because he is the face and leader of the democratic party the same way liberals attack Ronald Reagan, who is still the measuring stick for conservatives. As I stated earlier, I'm sick of his good cop bad cop routine that he has going with Hillary right now. I like him better when he is hanging out with Bono and helping kids in Africa.
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#29
#29
Laugh all you want, but do you even know what Clinton has done? or are you too busy giving him credit for an economic boom he had nothing to do with?
 
#32
#32
MontereyVol said:
Laugh all you want, but do you even know what Clinton has done? or are you too busy giving him credit for an economic boom he had nothing to do with?
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what else did he do? besides gutting the military and intelligence services, what did he really do that would warrant putting him anywhere near the likes of Bush and Carter?
 
#33
#33
He sold the military technology to the Chinese that kick started their resurgance, against every military and civilian contractors advice. Add to that he sold them rights to the top level of GPS use the military wanted reserved for themselves.

Add those together and we now face a nation that is testing us at every level militarily and will become the sole superpower of the world within your lifetime.

case in point: Google Chinese Aegis systems make US Admirals jaws drop.
 
#34
#34
MontereyVol said:
He sold the military technology to the Chinese that kick started their resurgance, against every military and civilian contractors advice. Add to that he sold them rights to the top level of GPS use the military wanted reserved for themselves.

Add those together and we now face a nation that is testing us at every level militarily and will become the sole superpower of the world within your lifetime.

case in point: Google Chinese Aegis systems make US Admirals jaws drop.
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he's a pacifist at heart and that legacy should follow him forever, but lumping him beside the Bush's for incompetence is a bit of a stretch.

China's economy is going to be the only thing that makes them a lone superpower, not a few military secrets the he might have passed along.
 
#35
#35
MontereyVol said:
Bubba sold your a$$ out OE.
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So has every other politician this country has ever had.

Nothing new, I don't dislike Clinton just because he is a democrat.

Any who, we needed a nice break in the GOP controlled white house.... we needed Bubba.
 
#36
#36
BigPapaVol said:
he's a pacifist at heart and that legacy should follow him forever, but lumping him beside the Bush's for incompetence is a bit of a stretch.
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Selling guided missle technology and then having the company that makes our smart bombs moved to China would place him up there in level of incompetence. While I wont debate the cost of the Iraq war, I will say a military shootout with China in the future will be much much more disasterous. All of which was done so that he could pump the economy up so he could create a "Legacy"

BigPapaVol said:
China's economy is going to be the only thing that makes them a lone superpower, not a few military secrets the he might have passed along.
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If you dont think those military secrets he sold them wont move them into our realm militarily at an exponentially faster rate, you are in for a sad surprise. Just like our Naval command was two years ago.
 
#37
#37
OrangeEmpire said:
So has every other politician this country has ever had.

Nothing new, I don't dislike Clinton just because he is a democrat.

Any who, we needed a nice break in the GOP controlled white house.... we needed Bubba.
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Your probably right, about all the other politicians. I just get sick of hearing everyone acting like Bill was some kind of great leader.

I dont hate Dems either.

I need a break from both parties right about now!
 
#38
#38
MontereyVol said:
He sold the military technology to the Chinese that kick started their resurgance, against every military and civilian contractors advice. Add to that he sold them rights to the top level of GPS use the military wanted reserved for themselves.

Add those together and we now face a nation that is testing us at every level militarily and will become the sole superpower of the world within your lifetime.

case in point: Google Chinese Aegis systems make US Admirals jaws drop.
Click to expand...

What am I supposed to find when I google this?
 
#39
#39
The fact that it took The US almost 50 years to create and implement Aegis. We have had it online for less than ten years and it makes us the premier naval power in the world. It's like canoes vs battleships.

Two years ago the Chinese rolled out their new destroyers to the eyes of the rest of the world and surprise! they were Aegis class destroyers. They achieved the reverse engineering and building of the ships in under five years.

One pentagon source was quoted to say that when the US naval command saw the Chinese Aegis destroyers their jaws hit the ground. Trillions of dollars wasted since now the biggest threat we face in the high seas is the Chinese navy. They achieved all of this at the smallest of fractions of what we put into it.
 
#40
#40
MontereyVol said:
The fact that it took The US almost 50 years to create and implement Aegis. We have had it online for less than ten years and it makes us the premier naval power in the world. It's like canoes vs battleships.

Two years ago the Chinese rolled out their new destroyers to the eyes of the rest of the world and surprise! they were Aegis class destroyers. They achieved the reverse engineering and building of the ships in under five years.

One pentagon source was quoted to say that when the US naval command saw the Chinese Aegis destroyers their jaws hit the ground. Trillions of dollars wasted since now the biggest threat we face in the high seas is the Chinese navy. They achieved all of this at the smallest of fractions of what we put into it.
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And we sold them Aegis ships that they used to reverse engineer their own fleet? Does Congress not have the ability to prevent the Defense Department from giving technology to other nations...or selling it?

The only thing that I found on-line was selling the Aegis to Taiwan....
 
#42
#42
No we sold them all the pieces they needed back in the 90's. A lot was said about some of the technology, i.e missile guidance chips, and the moving of sensitive industries to China, i.e the plant that built smart bombs. The rest they just got from going to trade conventions, and paying Clinton to allow access to high security areas.

The Chinese love Clinton.
 
#43
#43
TennTradition said:
See Britain, France, Israel, Soviet Union, and China and the nuclear weapon.
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The amount of time those countries took to develop their versions of nukes took a lot longer than the Chinese did with the Aegis system which would be considered a technological jump over nuclear weapons
 
#44
#44
MontereyVol said:
The amount of time those countries took to develop their versions of nukes took a lot longer than the Chinese did with the Aegis system which would be considered a technological jump over nuclear weapons
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You're going to have to explain to me how the Aegis system is considered a technological jump over nuclear weapons. Do you mean complexity of technology? I can agree with that - at first I took it as technological advantage jump, which I disagree with.
 
#45
#45
MontereyVol said:
The amount of time those countries took to develop their versions of nukes took a lot longer than the Chinese did with the Aegis system which would be considered a technological jump over nuclear weapons
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But the same story holds...we invest the big $$ and then either give the technology away or have very important details stolen.
 
#46
#46
The difference is they are a country of 1.3 Billion people. Thats not even odds in a showdown. They quite simply will just put 100 subs in the water to our 1. Aegis helped even those odds while it lasted.
 
#47
#47
TennTradition said:
You're going to have to explain to me how the Aegis system is considered a technological jump over nuclear weapons. Do you mean complexity of technology? I can agree with that - at first I took it as technological advantage jump, which I disagree with.
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Any country has the ability to build nuclear bombs. Name one country that can build Aegis. (obviously, besides china)
 
#48
#48
MontereyVol said:
The difference is they are a country of 1.3 Billion people. Thats not even odds in a showdown. They quite simply will just put 100 subs in the water to our 1. Aegis helped even those odds while it lasted.
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The numbers game doesn't really work in nuclear warfare in that way, though. Maybe I misunderstood your post, but you can't treat nuclear weapons like conventional weapons. You can take 100:1 "odds" and as long as missile defense continues to suck, our strategic defense is intact. Even in a first strike situation, our early warning and submarine fleet still protects our strategic nuclear advantage - with our without Aegis-class detection among any of our adversaries.
 
#49
#49
MontereyVol said:
Any country has the ability to build nuclear bombs. Name one country that can build Aegis. (obviously, besides china)
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This would seem to be the complexity argument, which I said I agreed with.

From a technological advantage standpoint - the US lost a huge strategic advantage when our first enemy obtained nuclear bombs/weapons. This strategic advantage was greater than any other military advantage I can think of. We had displayed a willingness to use these weapons - and as long as no one else had them, we were king of the mountain.

Once everyone had nukes, then the military strike advantage is obviously lost. However, the strategic advantage is still real. The loss of the Aegis advantage doesn't take away this strategic advantage. On the other hand, it does destroy other military advantages, and I would agree it is a large loss.
 
#50
#50
We agree that Aegis was a big loss. :)

Now, I must convince you that Clinton started the chain of events.
 
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