Holder in Comtempt...

[utvolpj]

800 + gun dealing permits in that area suggests strongly to me that there was a problem worth addressing.

In this way? No. But hardly something to overlook.

they went down that road before and it was proved to be worthless. Why the need to start pumping up results? Hmmm

and what's the qualification for a "gun dealing permit"?

 

[hndog609]

they went down that road before and it was proved to be worthless. Why the need to start pumping up results? Hmmm

and what's the qualification for a "gun dealing permit"?

Interesting question since it's, in fact, the ATF that's handing out those licenses.

 

[dreVol]

Compton?

totes magoats

 

[volved]

All in conservative districts and had been threatened by the NRA over this.

So ... you are saying Democrats are spineless panderers?

 

[bamawriter]

Not buying it.

I am sure they were frustrated by the inaction of local prosecutors in doing something to curb the trafficking and were looking for some way to try to prove what was happening and outline the means by which it happened. And I agree that given the outcome it was not a good program.

But the notion that somehow this would justify gun control is ludicrous. Unless, that is, you want to support 18 year olds buying 10 AK-47s and unloading them to a drug cartel smuggler just around the corner.

If in that sense it was designed to promote gun control, then hell yes I'm for it.

The FBI already had the names and were tracking the individuals the DOJ were looking for. Either our security and investigative agencies are utterly incompetent to the point that the right hand has no clue what the left hand is doing, or the DOJ knew that the FBI had the names, and went ahead with F&F anyway.

 

[milohimself]

Holder should get tossed if all the assumptions are correct, but it's a huge gamble to spend political capital on that and not the economy. Republicans better hope something comes of this.

 

[lawgator1]

So ... you are saying Democrats are spineless panderers?

Congress ?

They all are. The lot of them.

 

[lawgator1]

The FBI already had the names and were tracking the individuals the DOJ were looking for. Either our security and investigative agencies are utterly incompetent to the point that the right hand has no clue what the left hand is doing, or the DOJ knew that the FBI had the names, and went ahead with F&F anyway.

Names?

Or admissible evidence that would get a conviction?

Big difference.

 

[dreVol]

Holder should get tossed if all the assumptions are correct, but it's a huge gamble to spend political capital on that and not the economy. Republicans better hope something comes of this.

I've said from the beginning that Holder should've quietly resigned months ago.

 

[milohimself]

I've said from the beginning that Holder should've quietly resigned months ago.

There's never been any such thing as a quiet resignation for him.

Again, mighty big gamble on the part of Issa and co.

 

[gsvol]

There's never been any such thing as a quiet resignation for him.

Again, mighty big gamble on the part of Issa and co.

Not a big gamble when he has Holder dead to rights.

Holder should get tossed if all the assumptions are correct, but it's a huge gamble to spend political capital on that and not the economy. Republicans better hope something comes of this.

What should the dhimmirats hope for more brain dead zombie idiots??

Anyone with one eye and half sense can see Holder is playng way loose with the law.

And that Obama could care less about the general public.

Any fool who can't see that this whole presidency has been about an attack on what the marxist call the bourgeoisie is utterly stupid or blinded by communist/fascist ideolgy themselves.

The FBI already had the names and were tracking the individuals the DOJ were looking for. Either our security and investigative agencies are utterly incompetent to the point that the right hand has no clue what the left hand is doing, or the DOJ knew that the FBI had the names, and went ahead with F&F anyway.

Brian Terry was armed with a bean bag gun so as not to injure mules transporting natcotics.

An operative of one of the Mexican drug cartels was armed with an AK-47 provided by the ATF and the DOJ and was known to be in the area by the DEA and FBI to intercept a drug shipment by a competing cartel and rob them.

The perp shot Terry in the back but as Terry was left to die in the desert the shooter who had been wounded in the exchange of gunfire was evacuated out of the area of conflict by the one helicopter that was dispatched to the area.

Five of the attackers on the Terry contingent were arrested, four of them have been released back to Mexico.

It is next to impossible to find any information about the creep who shot and killed Terry.

Not only that, ICE agent Zapata was assassinated in Mexico, the question is; was he betrayed from within the homeland secutity department.

I would guess yes, how else would the cartel assassins have known wher to intercept him?

Last week I spoke directly with a member of the Zapata family myself and we agreed, it was a back stabbing deal that was fostered by the likes of Obama, Holder, Napolitano and Clinton.

fyp

You couldn't fix a damned freaking hangnail you doofus.

That is the most stupid argument ever made on this board.

800 + gun dealing permits in that area suggests strongly to me that there was a problem worth addressing.

In this way? No. But hardly something to overlook.

The problem worth adressing is in Washinton DC!

Hardly worth overlooking!

 

[dreVol]

There's never been any such thing as a quiet resignation for him.

Again, mighty big gamble on the part of Issa and co.

go big or go home, I suppose

 

[milohimself]

No, it's cool. gs says they have him "dead to rights."

I mean, look at all the times he's been right about stuff.

 

[milohimself]

gs, I know you say you're not a Republican, but we all know you are. I don't think I've ever seen you say a single bad word about a Republican on here, ever, unless one of them is locked in a primary battle with someone more conservative. Plus you've already taken to copying and pasting pictures fawning over Mitt Romney. You must have already convinced yourself that he is David Ben-Gurion, Joe McCarthy and Ronald Reagan all rolled into one tight, neat khaki-wearing package. It's cool, you're a GOP shill, we already put up with LG here even though he occasionally claims he sometimes considers voting for somebody other than a Democrat.

But I figured this last week may have given you a modicum of humility, after all the SCOTUS declared Obamacare constitutional after two years of you screaming at the top of your lungs about how it was going to be struck down. Clearly, you're not infallible. It's alright, we all make bad calls now and then. It's speculation on the internet, moreover it almost never leads to somebody changing their viewpoint on something (maybe I'm spinning my wheels here. Just trying to reach out to you, man to man).

There is not yet one single credible news agency outside of source-less right wing blogs (not that those are credible) who has come forward with damning information to that level, and I've seen every single Republican politician and talking head on the TV for weeks saying "we don't know" ad nauseum. Maybe they will find something, but they haven't yet.

That distinctively (factually, in fact) means there is a possibility that they won't find anything, or that the JD won't have to turn over any more documents, etc. if, IF that happens, then the public will view it as yet another waste of time and failed political ploy by congress, but at the very least it will be significant time taken away from talking about Obama's new massive tax increase, jobs, etc.

 

[VolByBirth]

Take some time to read and learn some things:

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

 

[Danl]

Take some time to read and learn some things:

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

Interesting read.

 

[gsvol]

Interesting read.

Communist News Network doesn't know the facts because of the secrecy (non-transparency) of the Obama administration and the Holder Justus department, along with illegal actions against whistleblowers.

E-mails reveal retaliation, cover-up at ATF, DoJ following Fast & Furious exposure « Hot Air

These days, in the Obama era, Democrats and the media seem a lot less admiring of whistleblowers, oddly enough. Imagine for a moment that Rowley had been assigned a new boss at the FBI after her whistleblowing, one that had told others that the agency needed to “get whatever dirt we can” on her to “take her down,” and especially if that boss had previously said in the presence of at least one witness that the FBI needed to “f***” said whistleblower.
--------------------------

Departing Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich wrote the now-infamous letter of February 2011 to Grassley that asserted the DoJ had no knowledge of gunwalking in OF&F. Newly released e-mails now show Weich and former acting ATF head Ken Melson cc’ed on e-mails discussing how to respond to Congressional inquiries on just this point.
---------------------------

In other words, the gunwalking was common enough knowledge that the ATF prepared a formal memo to instruct officials how to respond to questions about it on January 11, 2011. Yet when Congress asked Weich to inform them, Weich prepared a response three weeks after that ATF briefing memo was published that outright denied it ever happened, and the DoJ did not correct that testimony for another ten months.
------------------

Intimidating whistleblowers had to be part of that strategy; Weich’s position would have been — and turned out to be — untenable while whistleblowers kept tipping off Congress.

milohimself
gs, I know you say you're not a Republican, but we all know you are. I don't think I've ever seen you say a single bad word about a Republican on here, ever, unless one of them is locked in a primary battle with someone more conservative. Plus you've already taken to copying and pasting pictures fawning over Mitt Romney. You must have already convinced yourself that he is David Ben-Gurion, Joe McCarthy and Ronald Reagan all rolled into one tight, neat khaki-wearing package. It's cool, you're a GOP shill, we already put up with LG here even though he occasionally claims he sometimes considers voting for somebody other than a Democrat.

But I figured this last week may have given you a modicum of humility, after all the SCOTUS declared Obamacare constitutional after two years of you screaming at the top of your lungs about how it was going to be struck down. Clearly, you're not infallible. It's alright, we all make bad calls now and then. It's speculation on the internet, moreover it almost never leads to somebody changing their viewpoint on something (maybe I'm spinning my wheels here. Just trying to reach out to you, man to man).

There is not yet one single credible news agency outside of source-less right wing blogs (not that those are credible) who has come forward with damning information to that level, and I've seen every single Republican politician and talking head on the TV for weeks saying "we don't know" ad nauseum. Maybe they will find something, but they haven't yet.

That distinctively (factually, in fact) means there is a possibility that they won't find anything, or that the JD won't have to turn over any more documents, etc. if, IF that happens, then the public will view it as yet another waste of time and failed political ploy by congress, but at the very least it will be significant time taken away from talking about Obama's new massive tax increase, jobs, etc.

Does venting make you feel better?

In your shallow mind if I don't suck up the lies of the dhimmirats then I must be a republican.

For the record, for one thing, I said I didn't vote for Alexander his last campaign and in his next campaign I will vote for the projected Tea Pary candidate and if he doesn't beat Alexander then I will vote for the damned dhimmirat.

You have a damned hard time staying on topic and not trying to make things personal don't you?

As for Romney, he isn't Obama and I would vote for Pee Wee Herman against Obama, the outcome couldn't possibly be worse.

As for Obama care, I have and still maintian it is unconstitutional. I've never said the scotus would vote that way. FWIW CBS is reporting Roberts changed his vote under political pressure.

As for LG he isn't half as insufferable as your admittedly biased method of moderating this board!

Roberts ruled it was a tax after Obama and progressives like you told us it wasn't, so which is it?

So if you have to have to pay money to an insurance company and that is a tax, is that fascism at work or not?

And that certainly isn't the only fascistic aspect of this horrible legislation crammed down our throats and that over two thirds of Americans oppose.

1,968 New and Expanded Secretarial Powers in Health Law at US Action News

The Center for Health Transformation (CHT) released a new chart revealing the nearly 2,000 new and expanded powers given to Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Kathleen Sebelius under the healthcare law.

The chart, titled “The New and Expanded Secretarial Powers in the Health Reform Law,” shows the exact legislative language from the 2,409-page law and the 1,968 grants of new and expanded powers to the secretaries of Departments of Labor, Treasury and Health and Human Services. The overwhelming majority of which will fall under HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, from powers over access to drugs and insurance coverage to care delivery processes and changes to Medicare.

Commissar Sebelius has NEVER worked in medicine. She graduated from Trinity Washington University in Washington, D.C. with a B.A. in political science. She later earned a Master of Public Administration degree from the University of Kansas. She’s been a political hack her whole career.

And yet she will determine quite literally who lives and who dies, who gets treated, when and how.

This is straight out of Marx's manifesto, eliminate the bourgeoisie, carried out long enough Obamacare will eliminate the middle class entirely.

BTW, the governors of Wisconsin and Florida say they will NOT implement BHOcare, other states may follow.

As for the media, do you think anything isn't real if it isn't reported by the information bureau?? Orwell would be proud of you. The lamestream media can't deny it any more and that's why they are reporting on it hourly now!

milohimself
No, it's cool. gs says they have him "dead to rights."

I mean, look at all the times he's been right about stuff.
06-30-2012 08:42 AM

Ray Charles could see Obama and Holder are guilty as sin concerning the 'criminally stupid' fast and furious program and have attempted to decieve congress and the American people by lying about it.

Too bad you want to evade and prevaricate.

 

[bamawriter]

Names?

Or admissible evidence that would get a conviction?

Big difference.

Considering that they used the Bush model of gun-walking and tracking (without the added effort of actually tracking) that resulted in the FBI's dossier and evidence, it's hard to argue that doing the same thing all over again would produce significantly more evidence than the previous attempt. Doubly doubtful if you aren't going to the trouble of tracking the weapons.

 

[dreVol]

Considering that they used the Bush model of gun-walking and tracking (without the added effort of actually tracking) that resulted in the FBI's dossier and evidence, it's hard to argue that doing the same thing all over again would produce significantly more evidence than the previous attempt. Doubly doubtful if you aren't going to the trouble of tracking the weapons.

or provide advance warning to the Mexican government, or get the permission of the Mexican government, or work with the Meixcan government.

 

[gsvol]

Ken Melson – Key Figure in Fast and Furious? Where is Ken Melson? | Maggie's Notebook

Geraldo Rivera and Liberal pundits are offended at Rep. Darrell Issa's Contempt of Congress vote for Attorney General Eric Holder, calling him an opportunist and accusing him of taking advantage of Fast and Furious in an election year - and worse invoking the name of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry for political gain. The truth is, Holder has forbidden contact with the very person who may be the key figure in Fast and Furious, the former BATF acting Director, Ken Melson. There are still 14,000 documents withheld by the DOJ, at least one characterized as a "smoking gun" implicating "high-ranking officials," and one or some, regarding wiretaps, or maybe one containing all. Among the unreleased documents are emails Melson has already told Congress about, and perhaps has already provided copies to Issa, but Issa clearly feels Justice must hand them over.


In the middle of the fray, and after Melson and his personal attorney met with members of congress in early July 2011, Melson was moved from the BATF to the Department of Justice. I can find no news on him since, other than Holder refusing to let him honor Congress' subpoena. So much for Justice at the higher levels of our government.
-----------------------------

The gist, I think, is that a “career” employee did as he was asked and took less secure positions because his superiors asked him to, with the full expectation that he would return to a “career” status job somewhere. A chat with a DOJ official about Fast and Furious ended that expectation, and news broke that Melson would be asked to resign. He refused, indicating he would not be the fall guy for Fast and Furious.

Issa chided Holder for not properly informing Melson of his right to appear before Congress with his personal attorney, rather than a DOJ attorney. It didn’t stop there. Issa pointed out that Melson “no longer enjoyed due process protections afforded to career officials.”

ATTN miloyourself:

I may be unaware but I wouldn't consider the LA Slimes and CBS to be exdactly right wing blogs.

Say you?

I'll be you swear by Geraldo Rivera.
You sure do regurgitate his crappola.

L.A. Times:

Kenneth E. Melson, the ATF's acting director, also told congressional investigators this month that the affidavits prepared to obtain wiretaps used in the ill-fated operation were inconcistent with Justice Department officials' public statements about the program. Justice Department officials advised him not to raise his concerns with Congress about "institutional problems" with the Fast and Furious operation, Melson said.

Three other ATF officials were moved from the Phoenix offices to DOJ Washington, D.C.: Many speculate the moves were "promotions." The DOJ maintains the moves were only lateral.

The three supervisors - William Newell and and David Voth, both field supervisors who managed the program out of the agencys Phoenix office, and William McMahon, who was the ATFs deputy director of operations in the West - are being transferred to Washington for new management positions at the agency's headquarters, the newspaper reported.

William (Bill) Newell, one of the three mentioned above, informed investigators that he told his "friend" Kevin O'Reilly, the White House National Security Director for North America, about Fast and Furious. One of two emails begins with Newell saying “You didn’t get these from me…”

Newell earned that promotion. He claimed the Agents-turned-Whistleblowers "never complained about the investigation while it was being conducted." Definitely promotion-worthy, even though Newell had already admitted his own wrongdoing in Operation Fast and Furious.

Senior ATF Agent John Dodson is presumably one of the whistleblowers Newell is referring to. Dodson said he was (paraphrasing) shocked that straw purchasers walked with guns (some were convicted felons) and were not followed. Worse, he alleges he was not allowed to follow or trace the weapons. When Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered, and the weapons at the scene were identified as Fast and Furious weapons, Dodson went public and interviewed with CBS News.

Today, Dodson is still with ATF. News broke yesterday that Dodson and another whistleblower have been placed under the supervision of Scot Thomasson, Division Chief of the Firearms Operations Unit, who threatened to "take them down," according to Issa and Grassley.

In the meantime, Eric Holder let no grass grow under his well-shod feet. By September 2011, he had shut down Fast and Furious prosecutions in Arizona and moved them elsewhere. Wouldn't it be a bit uncomfortable for U.S. Attorneys, in a state used, abused and sued by the Department of Justice - a prosecutor knowing all too well that the streets he/she purports to protect - are likely to have criminals with high-powered weapons prowling the streets, courtesy of the DOJ?

I wonder what is happening to the man who shot agent Terry, I've heard all the others with him have been let go back into Mexico.

I also wonder why everyone now is failing to mention assassinated ICE agent Zapata anymore.

Something else not mentioned, under the obama policy of catch and release and be3 sure not to injure illegals whether their are carrying dope or not, Terry was armed with a bean bag gun and his killer was armed with an AK-47 furnished by the ATF and DOJ paid for with simulus money.

 

[lawgator1]

Thoughts becoming increasingly disjointed.

I am concerned.

 

[milohimself]

Geraldo "He shouldn't have been wearing a hoodie if he didn't want to get shot" Rivera is a liberal pundit? You really are off in your own little world.

I don't watch any cable news except to see how partisans are reacting to a particular event.

 

[milohimself]

I'll believe Geraldo is a liberal pundit when he starts shilling for unions, referencing the Citizens United decision every five minutes and regularly interjects phrases like "RepubliCONS" and "John Boner"

 

[gsvol]

LG, in the other thread on this topic you seem to behaving an anxiety attack, in this one you seem to be suffering from attention deficit disorder, you may want to check in the nearest clinic for some help.

The show must go on.

Island Turtle: Fighting fire with fire … Holder’s stonewall is being pierced by Issa’s Congressional Immunity

When Fast and Furious was conceived, it was the perfect crime. Guns purchased by straw purchasers would be allowed to walk into the hands of Mexican drug cartels with the blessing of the DOJ, which developed and ran the operation. There were no tracking devices (RFIDs) attached to the guns, the Mexican Government was not informed, and US law enforcement personnel were ordered not to interfere with movement of the weapons. All actions that could have made this a legitimate operation were ignored or countermanded.

More likely it was an effort to generate publicity when the “walked” guns from the US turned up at violent cartel crime scenes. Then that publicity would be used create a ground swell of publicity to ban the sale of assault weapons. It was the perfect crime because Justice, which ran the operation, could stymie any investigation or prosecution should any glitches happen. And Democrats controlled both houses of Congress so no investigation with subpoena powers would happen. Just as with Justice, Congress would see no evil.
--------------------------------

In particular Issa has sought information through subpoena powers that senior Justice officials knew of the of the gun running operation. He wanted the sealed wiretap applications which can only be authorized at the senior level at Justice. That was denied. But it turns out Issa was in possession of several of these documents, leaked to him by persons unknown. How Issa placed this information into the public domain is unique and legal, and no doubt has Holder and others in the administration squirming.

On Friday June 29 Issa referred on the floor to a letter he had written a month earlier to Elijah Cummings, the ranking (Democrat) member of Issa’s Oversight Committee. The letter was a response to one Cummings had written him asserting there was no evidence to support the claim that senior Justice officials knew of guns being “walked” to straw purchasers.

Issa in is letter quotes information obtained in six leaked wiretap applications, documenting that they indeed were aware of the gun walking operation. He then had his letter, containing portions of the sealed wiretap applications, read into the Congressional Record. It is available here. (link)
--------------------------

Undoubtedly, there is more to come. Issa likely has more leaked documents from his mole. And he now has a channel to place them before the public.

Obama, Holder and company aren't going to be able to keep a lid on this and they aren't going to be able to blame it on Bush, although they will try their dead level best to do just that.