Holly's talentless team was 50% of the blame

#78
#78
mcannon1 said:
Right on volman128. Wish you'd go over to the Summitt and educate them.
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I used to post there. I wouldn't pay to post on that cesspool again if it was the last board on Earth. You can't educate people who are just plain stupid.

I should've re-subbed just for a month to troll them when Holly was fired, though.
 
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#82
#82
Spook1 said:
Warlick was not responsible for the recruiting classes of 2017 and 2018 nor the incoming class of 2019. That was the work of Sharonna Reaves. 2017 and 2018 were either #1 or #2 in the nation. 2019 has the #1 recruit in the nation plus 2 others in the HoopGurlz top 60. Warlick had the player talent, she did absolutely nothing to make the players better...she tolerated huge turnovers most every game...3 games of 27 turnovers per game. On occasions she tolerated FREE THROW problems, but again did nothing to improve.
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Like it or not, if the HC gets the blame for the teams failure, then they deserve the credit too. We don't get to pick and choose when we feel like it.
 
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#83
#83
ocoandasoc said:
Of all the coaching criteria you could list, Holly probably scored her highest marks on "Recruiting." The notion that somehow the 4 and five star recruits who chose the Lady Vols over her tenure were some sort of fraud, is silly. This team has had -- and continues to have -- Final Four talent.
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I think people by nature get offended by losing, then get myopic that EVERYTHING the HC does is a failure. Humans don't exist that way. They ALL have qualities and weaknesses.

It does not appear that HW has the ability to win at this level. I sure a check don't either. And we'll see if CKH does eventually. But, bc she failed at a monumental task does NOT mean she did EVERYTHING bad. C'mon folks.
 
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#85
#85
Look I think as a Vols Fan we support the team. The Lady Vols are a staple of the University of Tennessee. This job in all recruits itself on name alone. Holly wasn't a good coach period. Her record indicates that with the talent she accumulated. I think Kelky sp ? Will do a great job here. She remembers what toughness is. Pat instilled that and Kelly knows what shooters can do from the arch
 
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#88
#88
utfantilidie said:
Let's not throw everything on her. Her inability to recruit did her in on the end. Agree?
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According to rating services HoopGurlz (HG) and ProspectNation (PN), the players were rated as follows out of HS:
Brown - International player not rated (missed season due to injury)
Burrell - HG 43, PN 119
Collins - HG 49, PN 9
Davis - HG 12, PN 9
C. Green - International player not rated
Z Green - HG 10, PN 23
Harris - Not rated
Jackson - HG 49, PN 37
Kushkituah - HG 57, PN 11
Massengill - HG 25, PN 11
Westbrook - HG 2, PN 2

So 8 of 11 players were rated better than #50 by at least one of the two services, and the international players generally well thought of even though not specifically rated. It appears to me that the one thing Holly did well was recruit, but she could not do anything with them once they were here. It definitely seemed that there was a lack of player leadership on this team, and coaching has a lot to do with that. Coaches have to instill in the players that they have a leadership responsibility in order to have a successful team, and that was missing this season. Kellie was a strong leader as a player, so hopefully she will get that across to her team in the future. So I guess my answer to your question is No, I do not agree.
 
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#89
#89
utfantilidie said:
Let's not throw everything on her. Her inability to recruit did her in on the end. Agree?
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The big question is how do we determine what percentage of ineptitude go to the players vs. the coaches? A good coach has an established system that he/she adheres to. They recruit players that fit into their system, or players they determine have the ability to adjust to their system. They do not recruit based only upon a players stars. Then they develop players that fit into their system to their full potential. I don't know if Holly had a system or if she recruited based upon a player's stars. Whatever the situation, Holly and her staff failed to develop players up to their full potential. Holly lacked the ability to manage her timeouts and to make in game changes. In reality, I believe she was simply overwhelmed and in over her head. When I coached, I was the captain of my ship and when things went wrong it was all on me. Two of the characteristics a coach must have is, he/she must be able to identify the rotten apples in the bunch and have the ability to cut bait.
 
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#90
#90
Tennesseefan2019 said:
It's stupid to think Tennessee will win in the upper 20's when a new coaching staff is coming in having to mold the team to fit what they want to do.
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Nah, not really. Assuming the roster stays in tact and the recruits come, there's no excuse for her to not win right away, given the 'system' she will run is the same as the one that they were recruited into. I mean, it's not rocket science. Holly didn't run anything particularly amazing or sophisticated and neither will Kellie. There should be no learning curve. Her roster will be stacked. Our areas of improvement are motivation and fundamentals, which really shouldn't take that long to get corrected if she's the right person for the job.

Also, I feel like we're setting her up to be in the scenario where excuses will be made. Should excuses need to be made that will be early indication if the hire was correct or not.
 
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#91
#91
The fact is that in the beginning Holly took Pat's team and winning culture and got to some Elite Eights, but the last few years she has changed the culture of her teams so they no longer have that winning attitude they had under Pat, even though the talent is there. That said, it is almost impossible for anyone to successfully follow a legend, so Holly is in a lot of company in that respect. I appreciate her effort, but time to move on. No one can know how well Kellie will do in the job, but as VOL fans we owe her and the team our support. If it doesn't work out, then we move on if and when that time comes.
 
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#92
#92
volman128 said:
Nah, not really. Assuming the roster stays in tact and the recruits come, there's no excuse for her to not win right away, given the 'system' she will run is the same as the one that they were recruited into. I mean, it's not rocket science. Holly didn't run anything particularly amazing or sophisticated and neither will Kellie. There should be no learning curve. Her roster will be stacked. Our areas of improvement are motivation and fundamentals, which really shouldn't take that long to get corrected if she's the right person for the job.

Also, I feel like we're setting her up to be in the scenario where excuses will be made. Should excuses need to be made that will be early indication if the hire was correct or not.
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You're assuming the roster is stacked based on ratings. Seems like the football Vols thought that too under Butch and it just wasn't so. I'm not expert and this is just an observation — but these Lady Vols may not be as good as their respective ratings coming out of HS. I guess we'll know more as the years go by. As for me, I'll be looking for hustle, improvement, cohesiveness, and a will to win. If we do that success will follow in time.
 
#93
#93
I think what you said is what Holly apologists used to justify her failures as a HC. I think that still places blame on the players. Not every top ranked recruit is going to be on AA status from day one. None of the top ranked recruits that came and played for Holly Warlick became AAs or made it to a final four. And we're not talking individual players that were surrounded by scrubs. We're talking having a roster with multiple top five recruits.

Again, I don't expect EVERY top five/top ten recruit we get to become a 1st team AA; however, I do expect a coach who has 4-5 highly ranked recruits on one roster to be contending for conference championships, and in the mix of teams that regularly make a deep run in the NCAAs. Anything less points to inadequate coaching, IMO.
 
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#95
#95
1955bamavol said:
You're assuming the roster is stacked based on ratings. Seems like the football Vols thought that too under Butch and it just wasn't so. I'm not expert and this is just an observation — but these Lady Vols may not be as good as their respective ratings coming out of HS. I guess we'll know more as the years go by. As for me, I'll be looking for hustle, improvement, cohesiveness, and a will to win. If we do that success will follow in time.
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The roster WAS stacked under Butch for a couple of years. It wasn't when he left. When Dobbs, Kamara, et al left it was downhill from there, and he couldn't even do anything when he had those players. Similar situation to Holly in terms of not doing anything with talent.

Nobody with any knowledge of these recruits would say that they aren't good. Sorry. The cupboard isn't bare. It's pretty much full. This team has tons of talent and is probably a top 5 roster in the country, TBH. Kellie simply isn't going to get a bunch of time to turn this around. And she shouldn't. Her first year will tell the story and the difference between her and Holly.
 
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#98
#98
utfantilidie said:
Let's not throw everything on her. Her inability to recruit did her in on the end. Agree?
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That’s a major part of coaching, what is your point? That’s like saying “players just didn’t develop under her, it’s not all her fault”. Coaching is a multi faceted profession that includes recruiting, developing players, mentoring individuals, and delegating responsibilities. You can’t just arbitrarily dismiss one of the major roles and pretend it doesn’t count.
 
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#99
#99
Headed For Home said:
6 high school All Americans on this year's team. I do not think talent was the problem.
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Holly has often said she did not know why the team was losing games or what to do to stop losing. All she had to do was look at her outdated offense, her lack of baseline, lane and three point defense and her team creating 20 turnovers a game. She gave up on the team and they gave up on her. She kept digging the hole she was in deeper and deeper.
 
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