Home Plate Collisions

#1

TheDeeble

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#1
Talk about banning them is heating up again now that Mike Matheny is coming out saying that they should be banned.

My take: as long as a catcher is blocking the plate and obstructing the runner from being able to slide into home, the baserunner should be able to plow into him as hard as he wants. If MLB wants to end home plate collisions they should instruct catchers to quit blocking the plate.
 
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#2
#2
Talk about banning them is heating up again now that Mike Matheny is coming out saying that they should be banned.

My take: as long as a catcher is blocking the plate and obstructing the runner from being able to slide into home, the baserunner should be able to plow into him as hard as he wants. If MLB wants to end home plate collisions they should instruct catchers to quit blocking the plate.
You nailed it. I've always thought it was a stupid play; especially when Catchers block before they've got the ball.
 
#3
#3
I'd like to see a success rate on blocking and some replays to see if standing aside and swiping would have worked.
 
#4
#4
I still remember when Johnny Estrada got twerked by ultimate meathead Darin Erstad. He was never quite the same after that.
 
#5
#5
Blocking the plate without the ball, or before making a play on the ball, is obstruction. If MLB wants to get rid of collisions at the plate, they should enforce the obstruction call.

If they REALLY want to end collisions, plowing into the catcher shoulder-first should be considered malicious contact and be an automatic ejection, but then you run the risk of penalizing the offense for a defensive penalty. Catcher just stands there, gets an obstruction call, run scores, and the runner gets ejected.

Per the Official Baseball Rules (OBR): NOTE: The catcher, without the ball in his possession, has no right to block the pathway of the runner attempting to score. The base line belongs to the runner and the catcher should be there only when he is fielding a ball or when he already has the ball in his hand.
 
#6
#6
You nailed it. I've always thought it was a stupid play; especially when Catchers block before they've got the ball.

This is the problem; not collisions in general.

Blocking the plate without the ball, or before making a play on the ball, is obstruction. If MLB wants to get rid of collisions at the plate, they should enforce the obstruction call.

If they REALLY want to end collisions, plowing into the catcher shoulder-first should be considered malicious contact and be an automatic ejection
, but then you run the risk of penalizing the offense for a defensive penalty. Catcher just stands there, gets an obstruction call, run scores, and the runner gets ejected.

Per the Official Baseball Rules (OBR): NOTE: The catcher, without the ball in his possession, has no right to block the pathway of the runner attempting to score. The base line belongs to the runner and the catcher should be there only when he is fielding a ball or when he already has the ball in his hand.

This would do nothing but lead to even more injuries (though, they would be to the runner, not the catcher) due to runners having to slide late or awkwardly make a lateral move.

As a former catcher, I am very much AGAINST penalizing/outlawing collisions at the plate. If you are scared of the contact or injury, don't wear the gear. If you want to catch, learn the proper way to handle plays at the plate. Improper technique is the biggest reason for injury to catchers in plays at the plate.

When the ball is hit, the catcher should move in front of the plate, giving the entire baseline/plate to the runner. He should leave his mask/helmet on. He should be between 12 and 18 inches in front, making any contact whatsoever obviously malicious. When the ball is approaching, and the catcher is making the catch, he should step up the 3B line with his left foot (toes pointed to 3B to protect knee and ankle ligaments), 12-18 inches in front (up the 3B line) of the plate. That left knee should remain flexed and the glove/ball/right hand and the right knee should move toward the left foot to apply the tag. As the tag is made to the sliding runner, the catcher should continue with his momentum and rotate around (back to the infield) counter-clockwise then step through, towards the field to safely disengage from the runner - and is then in position to make a play/throw.

If the runner isn't going to slide, the preferred situation is to get the ball a little early and have time to move up the 3B line, glove/ball/right hand out in front, in an athletic position, looking like you are preparing for impact. As the runner approaches, allow him to run into your glove, but step away (toward the infield) and spin with the runner, using his momentum to avoid any bodily contact.

If that is not possible, and contact is imminent, the catcher must do his best to get his left foot/leg pointed toward the runner (to protect knee/ankle ligaments), stay on his feet, and loosen/relax his body as the contact occurs, rolling with the impact (like a backward tumbling roll) to lessen the impact.

What the catcher does NOT want to do:
  • Take off his helmet/mask
  • 'Man up' and 'win' the collision
  • Dive headfirst into the collision (Brian McCann is the worst offender)
  • Be on his knees (a la Buster Posey)
  • Block the plate before making the catch (it the catch and left foot step should be bang bang)

In my career, I was involved in too many plays at the plate to count. Very few of those involved a true collision (in amateur baseball, it's automatic ejection for the baserunner); but throughout those instances, I was never injured. I was only trucked/blindsided once (I was 11 or 12 and the runner was a significantly bigger 14 or 15). It hurt and I was bloodied and slightly shaken up, but because I followed the method listed above, I was not injured. The only two times I was ever injured in a collision were when I was the runner (once on a throw up the line to 1B, once on an awkward slide into home).

TL;DR - most injuries to catchers from collisions at the plate are avoidable, and are cause by improper technique.
 
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#7
#7
While I don't disagree with anything you've said, and I'm sure your level of catching exceeds mine (I was a catcher all through little league, and no further -- although I was taught and remember much of what you've said), I do have a question. Aren't kids taught the FIRST thing you should do is get your mask off and find the ball?
 
#8
#8
While I don't disagree with anything you've said, and I'm sure your level of catching exceeds mine (I was a catcher all through little league, and no further -- although I was taught and remember much of what you've said), I do have a question. Aren't kids taught the FIRST thing you should do is get your mask off and find the ball?

Unfortunately, many are taught this; I was when I first started catching. But that doesn't make it correct. If your vision is good enough to catch the ball coming from the pitcher while wearing your mask, why is it that it is suddenly so bad you can't do so when it's coming in from the field?
 
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#9
#9
Unfortunately, many are taught this; I was when I first started catching. But that doesn't make it correct. If your vision is good enough to catch the ball coming from the pitcher while wearing your mask, why is it that it is suddenly so bad you can't do so when it's coming in from the field?

Well, for one, the pitch is coming straight at you, really no head movement required to see the ball. If you're trying to look to the outfield to find the ball, and keep track of all the runners, I could see where your periperal vision could be obstructed or hindered by still having the mask on.
 
#10
#10
Well, for one, the pitch is coming straight at you, really no head movement required to see the ball. If you're trying to look to the outfield to find the ball, and keep track of all the runners, I could see where your periperal vision could be obstructed or hindered by still having the mask on.

That is the reasoning for it, but once I was taught to leave it on, I never seemed to have issues with that. You just get used to it.
 
#11
#11
I've got a picture of me getting absolutely destroyed in the TSSAA state tournament my senior year in 2010. I'll try to post it.


I was blocking the plate like I'm allowed to do, I got the throw from SS, and the base runner was still a good 10 feet away from me so I was just casually waiting for him with the ball to tag him out..little did I know a small train was about to lower its shoulder and completely rock my world.

Ball went flying, helmet went flying, but he got ejected and suspended for two games, and I ended up with a championship ring out of it :)
 
#12
#12
I've got a picture of me getting absolutely destroyed in the TSSAA state tournament my senior year in 2010. I'll try to post it.


I was blocking the plate like I'm allowed to do, I got the throw from SS, and the base runner was still a good 10 feet away from me so I was just casually waiting for him with the ball to tag him out..little did I know a small train was about to lower its shoulder and completely rock my world.

Ball went flying, helmet went flying, but he got ejected and suspended for two games, and I ended up with a championship ring out of it :)

Gotta hang on to the ball man! :)

Championship ring, eh? Went to state 3 times in HS and was either 1 or 2 wins away from making it to the D2 CWS my last year playing in college, but never did get one - I sir, am jealous, haha.
 
#13
#13
Gotta hang on to the ball man! :)

Championship ring, eh? Went to state 3 times in HS and was either 1 or 2 wins away from making it to the D2 CWS my last year playing in college, but never did get one - I sir, am jealous, haha.


Oh I know I never heard the end of it from all the guys.

We went to state my junior year for the first time in 20 years, made it all the way to the championship game, got beat in extras 3-2. I cried like a small girl.

My senior year we 10 run ruled everybody and won the championship game 10-0 Lol. It was kinda cool because it was my schools only state championship in any sport, ever. So the whole town was there and pretty much rushed the field after the game..definitely an awesome moment.

I was actually the only senior on the team because my best friend who would have been the only other senior, actually committed suicide during the offseason so they took his jersey around to every game and hung it in the dugout..kinda felt like I was playing for him as well as me that whole season. Pretty neat experience.
 
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#14
#14
When did they put in an ejection rule for baserunners running into the catcher in high school?

I remember making a throw in from left field to home in a high school game and our catcher got blasted by the baserunner. Catcher ended up leaving the game with an injury. Thing is I don't remember the baserunner being ejected.

That was in 97.
 
#15
#15
When did they put in an ejection rule for baserunners running into the catcher in high school?

I remember making a throw in from left field to home in a high school game and our catcher got blasted by the baserunner. Catcher ended up leaving the game with an injury. Thing is I don't remember the baserunner being ejected.

That was in 97.



No clue on what year they did it. I know the guy that trucked me was ejected because he made no attempt to slide/avoid the tag.

I think if I would have been further up the line and not protecting the plate and he did it, I would have been at fault for being in the base runners path.
 
#16
#16
I'm okay with banning collisions as long as they automatically award the run every time the catcher blocks the plate.
 
#17
#17
No clue on what year they did it. I know the guy that trucked me was ejected because he made no attempt to slide/avoid the tag.

I think if I would have been further up the line and not protecting the plate and he did it, I would have been at fault for being in the base runners path.

Yup - if the contact is unavoidable or incidental, they are much less likely to make an ejection.

I'm okay with banning collisions as long as they automatically award the run every time the catcher blocks the plate.

I would never be okay with that - outright banning it or awarding runs based on blocking the plate. The catcher is wearing gear, if he's blocking you from scoring a run and you cannot go around, go through him. You hit him hard enough and he will stop blocking the plate without the ball. If all else fails and he continues to block the plate w/o the ball, your pitcher should put one in his ribs.
 
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#18
#18
I would never be okay with that - outright banning it or awarding runs based on blocking the plate. The catcher is wearing gear, if he's blocking you from scoring a run and you cannot go around, go through him. You hit him hard enough and he will stop blocking the plate without the ball. If all else fails and he continues to block the plate w/o the ball, your pitcher should put one in his ribs.

Sorry, I don't think I was clear enough that I was being facetious. Catchers can stand by and swipe tag if they don't want to get hit.
 
#19
#19
For us old timers: Pete Rose running over Ray Fosse in the 1970 All Star Game is a good example of a completely legal blow up of a catcher, that caused Fosse's career to go down the tubes. Every since then I have despised the play, even though I grew up with it being OK to have the collision. Over the years my opinion changed such that I see obstruction of a base is obstruction of a base no matter what base it is.

D-1 player back in the early-70s. Not a catcher. Have played, volunteer coached or been a fan of the game for over 50 years. I know what catchers are taught. However, it is the most senseless play in baseball outside of throwing at a batter with intent. Let everybody know in advance that obstruction will be called, then call it each and every time. It will stop and there will be less injuries. Which in MLB should be important since we are talking about multi-million dollar players getting hurt, all for a rule that is not enforced.

It's a game, not life or death.
 
#20
#20
Sorry, I don't think I was clear enough that I was being facetious. Catchers can stand by and swipe tag if they don't want to get hit.

Hooray for my mis-interpretation, lol. :crazy:

For us old timers: Pete Rose running over Ray Fosse in the 1970 All Star Game is a good example of a completely legal blow up of a catcher, that caused Fosse's career to go down the tubes. Every since then I have despised the play, even though I grew up with it being OK to have the collision. Over the years my opinion changed such that I see obstruction of a base is obstruction of a base no matter what base it is.

D-1 player back in the early-70s. Not a catcher. Have played, volunteer coached or been a fan of the game for over 50 years. I know what catchers are taught. However, it is the most senseless play in baseball outside of throwing at a batter with intent. Let everybody know in advance that obstruction will be called, then call it each and every time. It will stop and there will be less injuries. Which in MLB should be important since we are talking about multi-million dollar players getting hurt, all for a rule that is not enforced.

It's a game, not life or death.

I think my view is different because I was a catcher. I didn't avoid collisions altogether, but I avoided injury because I used proper technique. Should we ban tackling in football because some use improper technique? Of course not. Same goes for collisions at the plate. If those are banned, I agree that fewer catchers will be hurt but I guarantee more baserunners will.

The injury to Fosse was unfortunate, but if he didn't want to get blown up, he shouldn't have been blocking the plate without the ball. I've only blocked without the ball once, and I got my legs taken out and I was upended. It was entirely possible that I could have landed on my head and broken my neck, or if the runner didn't slide, I could have gotten injured from the collision. But I knew the risks. In that situation, I was willing to risk it. It's as simple as only blocking the plate when you have the ball, and doing it properly when you do. Just like gun control, don't take them away from me because some nut-bag can't properly handle one.
 
#21
#21
Coach K would request to get his players and staff off of the field prior to any collision. Someone is bound to get hurt.
 
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#23
#23
More baserunners will be injured if home plate collisions are banned?

Yes - have you ever slid into a catcher wearing gear? It's easier to tear up something sliding into a catcher than it is running one over. Remember Jeter getting his shoulder dislocated sliding into third (weird play, but slid into the catcher)? That would not have happened if he ran over the catcher (assuming the play were at home and not third).
 
#24
#24
Yes - have you ever slid into a catcher wearing gear? It's easier to tear up something sliding into a catcher than it is running one over. Remember Jeter getting his shoulder dislocated sliding into third (weird play, but slid into the catcher)? That would not have happened if he ran over the catcher (assuming the play were at home and not third).

Yea, with that I agree completely. I thought you were referencing a ban on home plate collisions that included a ban on the catcher blocking the plate.

That's why they have to go together. It's not fair to the baserunner to have to slide into a catcher blocking the plate. 1. He isn't going to slide through him to be able to touch the plate. 2. The increase in injury as you mention.

If baseball wants to end home plate collisions it has to start with catchers blocking the plate.
 
#25
#25
Yea, with that I agree completely. I thought you were referencing a ban on home plate collisions that included a ban on the catcher blocking the plate.

That's why they have to go together. It's not fair to the baserunner to have to slide into a catcher blocking the plate. 1. He isn't going to slide through him to be able to touch the plate. 2. The increase in injury as you mention.

If baseball wants to end home plate collisions it has to start with catchers blocking the plate.

That will never happen - the first time that a catcher tries to swipe tag and either misses or loses the ball, someone will blow a gasket and blocking the plate will be resumed. Sure, they can strongly encourage catchers not to block the plate without the ball, but collisions/blocking the plate are a part of the game; it'll never go away.
 

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