How Can We Take 35?

[TN_Vol_Fo_Life]

I'm sure it has been explained a couple hundred times on how we are allowed to take 35 under the SEC rules. If someone could sticky that explanation or just respond here, I'd appreciate it.

 

[3rd_and_Jancek]

Butch gets it.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Butch has stated that he will sign 35 if he possibly can, that a detailed strategy is in place to do so, and that we will officially have 14 early enrollees. The last statement was prior to Josh Malone's commitment. I believe that you can anticipate a full class of 25 signees, plus five of the early enrollees back-counted against last year's class, and another 4-5 gray- and/or blue-shirt commitments. He is doing everything in his power to implement as drastic an infusion of high-caliber talent as is possible and, even more importantly, to escalate the pace of their development by bringing in as many early enrollees as the rules will permit under our current circumstances.

Here is an excellent article which explains the most likely scenarios and options at Butch's disposal: Has Butch Jones found a recruiting loophole? Vols could use complex strategies to manage brimming class | Evan's Eleven.

 

[Volt]

25 is standard, backcount 5 for last year, 1 redshirt, 1 grayshirt, 1 blueshirt, 1 greenshirt, 1 pinkshirt

 

[Vols188]

don't worry about it, just enjoy the great players we're getting

 

[TNVolunteerGrad]

 

[VolFreakJosh]

I'm sure it has been explained a couple hundred times on how we are allowed to take 35 under the SEC rules. If someone could sticky that explanation or just respond here, I'd appreciate it.

"Rules are meant to be broken"

-Butch Jones

 

[SouthKnoxVOL]

Butch does what he wants.....when he wants...and wherever he wants.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

the question should not be how we take 35, but how can we not take 35? with all the holes in the roster, I hope we take 40.

 

[majorvol]

{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252
{\fonttbl}
{\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;}
}35 players must we take..... Yes

 

[Rocky-Top 10EC]

Deal with it

 

[hillsborovol]

I'm fairly sure that blueshirting is all but impossible with any of our commitments. IIRC, this isn't allowed if the player had been recruited at all (e.g., no in-home visits by the coaches, only one phone call during his recruitment, no official visits to campus, etc.). However, are we certain that we can only back-count 5 players?

Evan Woodbury wrote the following in an article published in May 2013:


"Based on previous announced signing classes, here’s how it appears Tennessee got to this point:
The Vols announced 22 players in the 2012 class. Tino Thomas, a “grayshirt” whose enrollment was pushed back from 2011, made it a 23-man class. Although there were six early enrollees, it’s not clear if any were able to be counted against the 2011 class. Any players counted against 2011 could increase UT’s haul in 2014.
The Vols announced 21 signees in the 2013 class in February and recently added a potential summer enrollee in receiver Johnathon Johnson. The Vols could count at least two early enrollees against the 2012 class. With Johnson’s arrival, the Vols still would count only a maximum of 20 against the 25-man limit in 2013.
If UT convinces five prospects to enroll early, they could count all of them against 2013, with room to add up to 25 more as traditional summer arrivals for a total of 30."


So, if we were allowed to back-count any of the 2012 class toward the 2011 class, then we could sign more than 30 this year. Rivals shows we had 27, 27, 22, and 18 players from the 2011, 2010, 2009, and 2008 classes, respectively. I'm not sure that Rivals has the right number (or that I looked it up correctly), but let's assume that they do.

If we use 2008 as "ground-zero", and we had at least 7 EEs from the 2009 class, then only 15 of the 22 signees in 2009 would be counted toward the 2009 class. And, if we had 10 EEs in the 2010 class, they could be back-counted to 2009, leaving us with only 17 that counted toward 2010. The 2011 class could have 8 EEs that back-counted to 2010, leaving the 2011 class with only 19.

That brings us to 2012 which everyone assumes was a full class. But was it? It appears that we could have had up to 6 in this class that were back-counted. Of course, if we didn't have at least these numbers of EEs, then the allowable signing class would be less than I've listed above.

Is it possible that everyone is assuming the 30 number based solely on Evan Woodbury's article in which he admits that he isn't sure how many players were counted toward 2012? Since he didn't know, Evan assumed that the class was completely full.

Has anyone seen an official statement from UT on how many, if any, were back-counted in each of these classes?

 

[LWSVOL]

I'm fairly sure that blueshirting is all but impossible with any of our commitments. IIRC, this isn't allowed if the player had been recruited at all (e.g., no in-home visits by the coaches, only one phone call during his recruitment, no official visits to campus, etc.). However, are we certain that we can only back-count 5 players?

Evan Woodbury wrote the following in an article published in May 2013:


"Based on previous announced signing classes, here’s how it appears Tennessee got to this point:
The Vols announced 22 players in the 2012 class. Tino Thomas, a “grayshirt” whose enrollment was pushed back from 2011, made it a 23-man class. Although there were six early enrollees, it’s not clear if any were able to be counted against the 2011 class. Any players counted against 2011 could increase UT’s haul in 2014.
The Vols announced 21 signees in the 2013 class in February and recently added a potential summer enrollee in receiver Johnathon Johnson. The Vols could count at least two early enrollees against the 2012 class. With Johnson’s arrival, the Vols still would count only a maximum of 20 against the 25-man limit in 2013.
If UT convinces five prospects to enroll early, they could count all of them against 2013, with room to add up to 25 more as traditional summer arrivals for a total of 30."


So, if we were allowed to back-count any of the 2012 class toward the 2011 class, then we could sign more than 30 this year. Rivals shows we had 27, 27, 22, and 18 players from the 2011, 2010, 2009, and 2008 classes, respectively. I'm not sure that Rivals has the right number (or that I looked it up correctly), but let's assume that they do.

If we use 2008 as "ground-zero", and we had at least 7 EEs from the 2009 class, then only 15 of the 22 signees in 2009 would be counted toward the 2009 class. And, if we had 10 EEs in the 2010 class, they could be back-counted to 2009, leaving us with only 17 that counted toward 2010. The 2011 class could have 8 EEs that back-counted to 2010, leaving the 2011 class with only 19.

That brings us to 2012 which everyone assumes was a full class. But was it? It appears that we could have had up to 6 in this class that were back-counted. Of course, if we didn't have at least these numbers of EEs, then the allowable signing class would be less than I've listed above.

Is it possible that everyone is assuming the 30 number based solely on Evan Woodbury's article in which he admits that he isn't sure how many players were counted toward 2012? Since he didn't know, Evan assumed that the class was completely full.

Has anyone seen an official statement from UT on how many, if any, were back-counted in each of these classes?

they can't go back and adjust numbers back.

Coach Jones stated last year they could only back count 2 from 2013 to 2012 making 2012 a full class. they cannot go back and say, hey we didn't count correctly and adjust numbers.

so 2013 / 2012 has to be ground zero. we have 5 spots to back count to 2013. bottom line. that has been stated by everyone in media following it so they are getting it from UT

 

[phowell23]

Simple:

We start with the standard 25 class. We are back counting 5 to the 2013 class. That brings the total we can sign to 30. Then it's a mixture of the following:

-Some committed may not sign with us (IMO very few would do this, but a one or two might)
-Some who sign may not make it in with grades (again few seem to be having grade issues, but who knows it may affect a few signees)
-A few will grayshirt (go to the recruiting forum to find out who these are, most are just speculation at this point though)
-Some may blueshirt (I think more blueshirts then grayshirts but that is just my opinion)

I think we'll sign 38 but that # will get down to 35 before school starts in August. Remember, 14-16 early enrollee's are coming in the next 4 weeks. That's almost half the class.

Now the real question is the 85 mark. We'll get there by current players transferring, leaving early for the NFL, or not being offered a scholarship next year.

 

[DazzleVol]

Simple:

We start with the standard 25 class. We are back counting 5 to the 2013 class. That brings the total we can sign to 30. Then it's a mixture of the following:

-Some committed may not sign with us (IMO very few would do this, but a one or two might)
-Some who sign may not make it in with grades (again few seem to be having grade issues, but who knows it may affect a few signees)
-A few will grayshirt (go to the recruiting forum to find out who these are, most are just speculation at this point though)
-Some may blueshirt (I think more blueshirts then grayshirts but that is just my opinion)

I think we'll sign 38 but that # will get down to 35 before school starts in August. Remember, 14-16 early enrollee's are coming in the next 4 weeks. That's almost half the class.

Now the real question is the 85 mark. We'll get there by current players transferring, leaving early for the NFL, or not being offered a scholarship next year.

A blueshirt is a very specific recruit, do we actually have anyone that qualifies for this?

 

[Aerie Vol]

In the vein of Chuck Norris lines -

If Butch only takes 35 this year, it's because his momma taught him to share.

Based on recruiting site projections, it appears that Butch has allowed some of his players to commit to other teams. He must be in a good mood today.

AV

 

[phowell23]

A blueshirt is a very specific recruit, do we actually have anyone that qualifies for this?

From what I read a blueshirt is someone who has not taken an official visit, had an in-home visit, nor signs a letter of intent. Yes, we have several commitments that qualify.

 

[DazzleVol]

From what I read a blueshirt is someone who has not taken an official visit, had an in-home visit, nor signs a letter of intent. Yes, we have several commitments that qualify.

Yea, I knew the defination, it's why i asked ... who fits that description that we are likely to sign?

 

[phowell23]

Yea, I knew the defination, it's why i asked ... who fits that description that we are likely to sign?

I can't find the post now but this was discussed a few weeks ago in the recruiting forum. The are quite a few who did not take an official visit to UT yet, at least from what everyone can gather (I think around 8). As far as in home visits, that's harder to track but in my opinion there are more that qualify for blueshirts then first thought.

 

[supersmo18]

"Rules are meant to be broken"

-Lane Kiffin

fixed

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Deal with it

The Butch Jones "deal with it" gif would be perfect for this thread.

 

[LWSVOL]

From what I read a blueshirt is someone who has not taken an official visit, had an in-home visit, nor signs a letter of intent. Yes, we have several commitments that qualify.

you forgot one

NCAA Rules – Definition of a Recruited Athlete
How does the NCAA define whether a prospect is considered a recruited athlete?
A prospect is considered a recruited athlete if the college takes one of the following actions:
• If they provide the prospect with an official visit.
• If they have an off-campus contact with the prospect or the prospect’s parents or legal guardians.
• If they offer the prospect a National Letter of Intent or an athletic scholarship agreement.
• If they initiate a telephone conversation with the prospect or his parents or legal guardians more than one time.

Ironically, a coach can have frequent e-mail conversations with a prospect but that athlete will still not be defined as a recruited athlete if the coach does not use any of the four actions above to encourage the prospect to attend the college and join their athletic program.

 

[LWSVOL]

A blueshirt is a very specific recruit, do we actually have anyone that qualifies for this?

The NCAA has never defined a blue shirt. New Mexico State invented the term. it is not found in the NCAA rules or guidelines.

 

[Rudy123]

I'm sure it has been explained a couple hundred times on how we are allowed to take 35 under the SEC rules. If someone could sticky that explanation or just respond here, I'd appreciate it.

Maybe between now and National Signing Day, there will be 5 players kicked off the team or asked to leave the program.

Some players on the team NEVER see the field!

 

[smokeyhuntsgators]

Two Words: Butch Jones!