How did it all come to this?

#1
T

TMHoosierVol

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#1
The downward slide of the Lady Vol Basketball program began when Pat decided to end the regular season rivalry with UCONN in 2007. From that day on, it has been much easier to recruit against UT. For the first 30 years of her coaching career, Pat's success was due primarily to having the best recruits year in and year out. John Wooden cemented his legacy at UCLA in a similar fashion. She didn't have to develop individual offensive talent, that was taken care of by the high school and AAU coaches. She had to do the heavy lifting and convince them of the importance of defense and rebounding, no small task, to round them in to championship material. And that she did.

When she ended the rivalry, to the rest of the country, it looked like the spoiled kid taking his ball and going home when he no longer got his way on everything. That has been spun a million different ways but the end result is what it is. Opposing coaches ask the recruits if they want to play for a program that is afraid of nobody and takes on all comers or one that picks and chooses it's battles based on personal feelings which could be misunderstood as a weakness. Since Candice Parker, UCONN has had the pick of the litter every year, and when their bench couldn't hold them all the rest of the country jumped in and started beefing up their programs. CHW is still living in the pre-Candice era. UT never had to work at recruiting the best because they were all knocking the door down wanting to be a part of greatness. All the staff had to do was sort them out and say thanks but no thanks to the ones they didn't need. Now the line at the door is dwindling a little more every year and we get to 2016 and low and behold, 0 recruits committed. CHW doesn't know any other way other than what she learned from Pat for all those years. It was becoming apparent that it was no longer working for Pat before she had to retire, and it sure isn't going to work now for CHW. The basketball landscape has changed, but as stated before by others, CHW is still coaching in the 80's and 90's.

The Lady Vol Legacy was built brick by brick by the GREATEST WOMEN"S BASKETBALL COACH of all time. If it wasn't for what she did for the game, Geno wouldn't have even had an option in coaching. He'd probably be running an Italian restaurant some where in Philadelphia. Unfortunately with the evolution of the game (Thanks to Pat), the Lady Vols need a complete transfusion. They need to get rid of ALL the old blood and bring in some new. I totally feel for Dave Hart and the place he inherited between the rock and the hard spot. No offense intended, but CHW is too old of a dog to learn new tricks. The devoted Lady Vol fans on this board, every last one of them, hurt for what has happened to their beloved basketball program, but they're just going to have to be patient until the boosters give the AD the green light to pull the trigger. Root for the players because they are giving their all for you.
 
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#2
#2
My opinion I don't see this group playing as a team. They look confused and lost. Teamwork doesn't see to be in their vocabulary.
 
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#3
#3
Get used to being an also-ran in a sport UT used to OWN. Never thought the legacy of Pat would get destroyed before her passing. Holly did it in a matter of a few short years.

Poor coaching, poor recruiting. poor selfish play, lack of leadership on the court.

And that is why a team like MSU finally beats you. We're not even a good SEC team.
 
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#4
#4
i continue to believe the assistants bear some of this responsibility! they should be recruiting better, teaching fundamentals better, and getting these players in the right mindset!
 
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#5
#5
I don't watch a ton of LV games but turned on the Miss St. Game during the 3rd Qtr. Looks to me like this team plays better with DeShields on the bench. Not sure if it's because all the other players stand around waiting on her to do something when she is on the court or not. There is no offensive rythym , everyone just stands around until 5 seconds left on the shot clock and it is one on one ball. From what I witnessed either 1. These players were highly overrated coming out of high school or 2. Holly is not a good coach. I think we all know the correct answer
 
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#6
#6
1985Vols said:
I don't watch a ton of LV games but turned on the Miss St. Game during the 3rd Qtr. Looks to me like this team plays better with DeShields on the bench. Not sure if it's because all the other players stand around waiting on her to do something when she is on the court or not. There is no offensive rythym , everyone just stands around until 5 seconds left on the shot clock and it is one on one ball. From what I witnessed either 1. These players were highly overrated coming out of high school or 2. Holly is not a good coach. I think we all know the correct answer
Click to expand...

Is it answer 3. The fans are putting too much pressure on the coaches and players? Holly said to be patient, but I would like to know how long I'll have to wait. Was she talking months, years, decades?
 
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#7
#7
well now,calling the Legend coach Pat Summitt

"the spoiled kid taking his ball and going home when he no longer got his way on everything"

really ?
 
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#8
#8
Some of us that understand the game pointed out the issues early in the season and the Holly apologists went into a frenzy of denial. It hasn't changed. This roster is not built for what Holly wants to do scheme wise. This roster does not have an experienced PG. This roster has a passive 6"6" center. and no other bangers except Graves. This roster does not work hard on defense. This roster does not pass the ball well. This roster is as bad of shooters as I have seen in a LV team - and that is saying something. They lived off rebounds and defense for years when Pat ran the program. Now they don't have that to cover for being bad shooters.

And I really haven't started on Holly yet and won't because it is pointless. What I wrote above is a direct reflection on her. Many on here still assume they will make the tourney. That is not a lock with this team.
 
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#11
#11
It was pretty obvious a long time ago that when Pat went, the colossus she built was going with her. The best that could be hoped was that what would be left was a solid program, kind of like Notre Dame after Rockne, or Bama after the Bear. We don't even have that. This team is a joke serving only to let mediocre programs hang a scalp and boast, 'look what we did to the mighty Lady Vols!'.
 
#12
#12
Make no mistake: the program's slide started with Summitt, right after the Parker national titles. In fact, it started before Parker--we went a long time, as I recall, without a title before she got to Knoxville. She and Anosike and Co. put us back on top, but then the slide happened in earnest, for two reasons: First, recruiting fell off--PS and her staff started bringing in a lot of prospects who simply weren't very good. PS seemed enamored of heady kids from Indiana who were not athletic enough for big-time basketball, and a lot of the bigs we landed were slow.

The second issue was offensive coaching: Summitt's teams never played great team offense, never really were a good passing team--and starting in the 1990s those flaws caught up with us as the game grew, players got better, teams got more competitive. PS was still emphasizing rebounding and defense, our offense began to suck--and this problem hasn't changed in more than a decade. Some of PS's later final four and title teams were not very good offensively; not good shooting teams. And, then, the topper: we stopped playing the great man defense which was our stock in trade all along. Our guard talent was really pretty mediocre for a long time--we had guards who either weren't quick enough or worked hard enough to play great defense. Warlick actually improved our recruiting somewhat--at least until the last couple of years, but she and her staff coach offense like PS did, by which I mean terribly, and she's simply not head-coach material. And here we are. Our fundamentals (passing, decision making, etc.) are too often bad, too many turnovers, too little cohesion and NO mental toughness. We play well for stretches, get leads--but we can never hold them and we have extended stretches in every game where we just fall apart. Good teams get an eight point lead and a quarter later they are leading by 14. We get an eight point lead and a quarter later we are trailing by four. Coaching, on-court leadership, toughness--all lacking.
 
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#13
#13
there are 348 different Ncaa teams that you Negavols should go root for if you'd like to abandon the Lady Vols.

my blood still runs only orange.
 
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#15
#15
governmentmule said:
well now,calling the Legend coach Pat Summitt

"the spoiled kid taking his ball and going home when he no longer got his way on everything"

really ?
Click to expand...

If you quote somebody, aren't you supposed to quote the entire sentence instead of what just suits your agenda? I said to the rest of the country it appeared that way.
 
#17
#17
Too many words, quit reading after you call PHS a spoiled kid.Post parts I read is a solid three out of seven...
 
#18
#18
Born4UT said:
Is it answer 3. The fans are putting too much pressure on the coaches and players? Holly said to be patient, but I would like to know how long I'll have to wait. Was she talking months, years, decades?
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Pressure put on by the fans on the coaches & players is NOT a valid excuse. The coaches get paid big money to coach & produce and the players are getting a free education and they are expected to do what the coaches tell them to do. NO EXCUSES! The coaches own it and it all starts with the head coach. If there had been an inordinate amount of injuries then you could cut the coaches some, I say some, slack otherwise it is what it is. UT is headed in a nose-dive to the SEC cellar. So, is Hart & the alums going to continue to let this happen or do they have the kahunas to call it like it is? Doesn't matter whether the HC is a man or a woman they should be held to the same accountable standard.
 
#19
#19
gule said:
there are 348 different Ncaa teams that you Negavols should go root for if you'd like to abandon the Lady Vols.

my blood still runs only orange.
Click to expand...

Take off your orange-colored glasses and see reality for what it is. It's not that we aren't dedicated VOL fans but just because this program is going down the drain doesn't mean we aren't VOL fans. If we weren't LV fans we wouldn't be asking the athletic director and alums to save the program before it hits rock bottom. If you want to go down with the ship fine & dandy but a lot of us would like to save the program and some survivors before they all drown.
 
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#20
#20
There's no arguing with the OPs post. Coach Pat defintely did have the best players year in and year out for a long time. But I really don't agree with the OP on, Coach Summits old way of coaching and preparing started declining. I just believe that the talent in women's BB started getting alot better nationally, which leads to teams being more equal in talent the last decade or so. We've seen the same thing in college football. The days of blowing out teams like Vandy and KY has become alot harder than it use to be because there's so much more talent to go around, which leads to schools like Vandy and KY getting quite a bit better players than they did back in the day. Thoughts?
 
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#21
#21
orangeluvr said:
There is more parity in today's collegiate sports. :yes:
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I agree with that statement but programs are built with hard work and from time-to-time adjustments have to be made. The question is, in this particular case, "Is the administration able to recognize the problem and do something about it before it hits mediocrity?" The disgruntled fan base is trying to send a message.
 
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#22
#22
chuck0303 said:
I agree with that statement but programs are built with hard work and from time-to-time adjustments have to be made. The question is, in this particular case, "Is the administration able to recognize the problem and do something about it before it hits mediocrity?" The disgruntled fan base is trying to send a message.
Click to expand...

Thanks for a most thoughtful post. Well done!
 
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#25
#25
gule said:
there are 348 different Ncaa teams that you Negavols should go root for if you'd like to abandon the Lady Vols.

my blood still runs only orange.
Click to expand...

Gimme a break. You want to call people Negavols because they post thery'e concern over the Lady Vols program declining. Just because you don't agree with others post, don't make them Negavols! Good grief, give the Negavol crap a rest!
 
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