How does UT's Academic Reqmt's hurt recruiting

#1

82_VOL_83

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#1
SIAP but I have seen a lot of posts about how Cheek's policies hurt recruiting at UT. Could I get some responses from VN on just how our school differs in it's policies from say FL, Bama, or GA and how that affects our football team both during recruiting and during their time here?
 
#3
#3
SIAP but I have seen a lot of posts about how Cheek's policies hurt recruiting at UT. Could I get some responses from VN on just how our school differs in it's policies from say FL, Bama, or GA and how that affects our football team both during recruiting and during their time here?

It doesn't
 
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#9
#9
Notre Dame and Stanford disagree with your analysis.....and yes, even Vandy is getting in on the act.

I'm not sure if I understand your point completely. All I'm saying is our policies don't really hurt us as compared to most schools, unless we look at it from a standpoint that we should lower our standards to the bare minimum, like Ole Miss.
 
#11
#11
SIAP but I have seen a lot of posts about how Cheek's policies hurt recruiting at UT. Could I get some responses from VN on just how our school differs in it's policies from say FL, Bama, or GA and how that affects our football team both during recruiting and during their time here?

The only recruits it actually has an impact on are JuCo guys that have poor grades in JuCo. Seriously.
 
#12
#12
I can't speak for incoming freshman, but for JUCO transfers UT does NOT accept their GPA average only their hours transfer. This can hurt or help - for example, if I am a junior transferring to UT and I have 60hrs if I earn a 3.95 GPA my first semester at UT I now have 72-75 hours of 3.95 GPA. Conversely, (and this may have been what is rumored to have happened to ole CP) if I get a 2.1 GPA I now have 72-75 hours of 2.1 GPA.

When I transferred from MTSU to Tennessee Tech my GPA dropped from a 3.33 to a 2.91 because Tech doesn't take the +- scale that MTSU utilizes. I got a 3.93 GPA my first semester at Tech and it raised my GPA (I had 80+ hrs) from 2.91 to 2.98. So you can see how difficult it is to alter your GPA once you have so many hours. If a JUCO tanks their first semester at UT, there is just about no hope of recovery for them.

Again, this is information I received from an alumni of UT and I can't address what academic disadvantage UT is at with incoming freshman.
 
#13
#13
SIAP but I have seen a lot of posts about how Cheek's policies hurt recruiting at UT. Could I get some responses from VN on just how our school differs in it's policies from say FL, Bama, or GA and how that affects our football team both during recruiting and during their time here?

Glen i can't respect any questions or statements you have . For God sakes you like alabama. Saying you like UT and alabama is saying you love the USA ( greatest country in the world if I might add) but have a soft spot for the taliban. Pick a school. My grandfather played baseball at alabama but i could give two craps about that fing school and would never stray away from being all vol. The only way i would ever cheer for bama is if my son played for them but we all know that wouldnt happen becasuse i am pretty sure he is going to be all vol anyways. Just giving you a hard time for that stupid elephant picture. Also lacrosse is for people above the mason dixon line.

Also it doesnt hurt recruiting.
 
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#14
#14
SIAP but I have seen a lot of posts about how Cheek's policies hurt recruiting at UT. Could I get some responses from VN on just how our school differs in it's policies from say FL, Bama, or GA and how that affects our football team both during recruiting and during their time here?


lol....this is a joke right. Vandy is tougher....in both senses of the word right now.
 
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#15
#15
this is the biggest load of bs that many of our fan base believe to be true...the only thing it even impacts are JUCO and finding basket weaving classes to inflate players gpa
 
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#16
#16
I can't speak for incoming freshman, but for JUCO transfers UT does NOT accept their GPA average only their hours transfer. This can hurt or help - for example, if I am a junior transferring to UT and I have 60hrs if I earn a 3.95 GPA my first semester at UT I now have 72-75 hours of 3.95 GPA. Conversely, (and this may have been what is rumored to have happened to ole CP) if I get a 2.1 GPA I now have 72-75 hours of 2.1 GPA.

The bigger issue isn't the GPA, it's that UT requires students that received below a C in a class at a junior or community college have to re-take that class when they enter UT.

This stems from the state passing a regulation several years ago that Board of Regents schools and the UT system have to accept transfer students that graduate from a BOR community college. What was happening was, many of these students that struggled through community college were failing out of UT because they were entering with little chance of overall success. So the decision was made to not accept classes below a C for credit to graduate.

Here's where that hurts athletes: The NCAA has a "Progression Toward a Degree" requirement that says, to be eligible, a player has to have a certain percentage of credits toward graduation in a specific major after their 2nd, 3rd and 4th (in case of redshirts) years to remain eligible for the next year. JuCo kids don't have the requirement coming in (after second year), but they have to get there by the end of their first year. For most guys, that's no problem, even if they struggle a little bit coming in.

Most JuCo guys that come in do so either in January or in time for summer school. If they have to re-take classes to satisfy UT's requirement, they get those knocked out during spring or summer and are fine for progression toward a major with fall and the following spring classes. When players, like the one mentioned in your post, don't arrive until fall, then have to re-take classes, it is very difficult for them to meet the NCAA's standards after the first year.
 
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#17
#17
for those that believe this actually is hurting us name one player who wanted to come to UT but was denied bc of this policy...its not like we have had a hard time getting the JUCO's we wanted the last few years
 
#18
#18
The only thing that's hurting out recruiting is sucking the last decade. Once we start winning again (God willing) we will be looking better.
 
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#19
#19
It doesn't hurt us. The fact of the matter is that people dislike Cheek because of his background at Florida in much the same way some people will continue to find reasons not to like Hart because he was at Alabama. Ultimately, the athlete is responsible for their academics, and any standards in place have been fully explained to them. The reality is that there is no disadvantage versus the other schools and more often than not this has been drudged up as a way to excuse lackluster recruiting experienced over the last several years.
 
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#20
#20
I'll try to explain it the best I can. Having coached at the college level and now the high school level, I have seen both sides of admissions and recruiting. UT's academic standards don't neccessarily hurt recruiting high school athletes that much. It hurt more in recruiting head coaches than it does athletes. Here is why.

The NCAA adopted the APR several years ago. Under the APR system, student athletes are required to meet certain benchmarks toward graduation in order to score points for the APR. This requires them to pick a major early in their time in college. You get knocked on APR when these benchmarks aren't hit. For example, if a student has been progressing toward their degree for a time, and all of a sudden decides that it is not for them and wants to change majors and it turns out that the new major won't take 4 classes that have already been taken. Now that student is behind in his benchmark toward graduation in his new major and thus getting dinged for the APR. He could have a 3.95, and it wouldn't matter. I don't remember the actual percentage to graduation per each semester, but if you lose hours in a change, you will be behind the 8 ball.

Where UT is taking a beating is that there are no more "catch-all" majors anymore. In our Supreme Chancellor's pursuit to make us a top 20 academic institution, those majors were dissolved. No more "University Studies" etc to put kids in. What most places will do or used to do is put kids in those majors for at least the first year or 2 until the kid decides what he really wants to do. Pretty much all of the hours in those majors would transfer to another major, so they wouldn't take a hit.

As far as JUCO kids go, the most common hinderance to getting them in is the extra Math class that SEC schools require that NO other conference requires. This is a conference deal not a UT specific deal.
 
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#21
#21
SIAP but I have seen a lot of posts about how Cheek's policies hurt recruiting at UT. Could I get some responses from VN on just how our school differs in it's policies from say FL, Bama, or GA and how that affects our football team both during recruiting and during their time here?

When discussing academics, there is never a reason to use "Bama" and "FL" in the same sentence.
 
#22
#22
this is the biggest load of bs that many of our fan base believe to be true...the only thing it even impacts are JUCO and finding basket weaving classes to inflate players gpa

You mean great athletes aren't naturally drawn to basket weaving?
 
#24
#24
I can't speak for incoming freshman, but for JUCO transfers UT does NOT accept their GPA average only their hours transfer. This can hurt or help - for example, if I am a junior transferring to UT and I have 60hrs if I earn a 3.95 GPA my first semester at UT I now have 72-75 hours of 3.95 GPA. Conversely, (and this may have been what is rumored to have happened to ole CP) if I get a 2.1 GPA I now have 72-75 hours of 2.1 GPA.

When I transferred from MTSU to Tennessee Tech my GPA dropped from a 3.33 to a 2.91 because Tech doesn't take the +- scale that MTSU utilizes. I got a 3.93 GPA my first semester at Tech and it raised my GPA (I had 80+ hrs) from 2.91 to 2.98. So you can see how difficult it is to alter your GPA once you have so many hours. If a JUCO tanks their first semester at UT, there is just about no hope of recovery for them.

Again, this is information I received from an alumni of UT and I can't address what academic disadvantage UT is at with incoming freshman.

Thanks for your explanation instead of some off the cuff comments coming from others on this subject. I don't disagree with the policy of not allowing JUCO GPAs to be transferred EXCEPT our opponents do. That puts UT at a disadvantage.

There are other disadvantages too numerous to go into detail such as the way C pluses and C minuses (for example) affect GPAs at UT vs. competitors.
 
#25
#25
I'll try to explain it the best I can. Having coached at the college level and now the high school level, I have seen both sides of admissions and recruiting. UT's academic standards don't neccessarily hurt recruiting high school athletes that much. It hurt more in recruiting head coaches than it does athletes. Here is why.

The NCAA adopted the APR several years ago. Under the APR system, student athletes are required to meet certain benchmarks toward graduation in order to score points for the APR. This requires them to pick a major early in their time in college. You get knocked on APR when these benchmarks aren't hit. For example, if a student has been progressing toward their degree for a time, and all of a sudden decides that it is not for them and wants to change majors and it turns out that the new major won't take 4 classes that have already been taken. Now that student is behind in his benchmark toward graduation in his new major and thus getting dinged for the APR. He could have a 3.95, and it wouldn't matter. I don't remember the actual percentage to graduation per each semester, but if you lose hours in a change, you will be behind the 8 ball.

Where UT is taking a beating is that there are no more "catch-all" majors anymore. In our Supreme Chancellor's pursuit to make us a top 20 academic institution, those majors were dissolved. No more "University Studies" etc to put kids in. What most places will do or used to do is put kids in those majors for at least the first year or 2 until the kid decides what he really wants to do. Pretty much all of the hours in those majors would transfer to another major, so they wouldn't take a hit.

As far as JUCO kids go, the most common hinderance to getting them in is the extra Math class that SEC schools require that NO other conference requires. This is a conference deal not a UT specific deal.

VolinSmyrna, any idea how this may help us when the new NCAA requirements come down in 2015, I believe??
 

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