How glad is UCLA Barnes had a buyout?

[onevol74]

Anything that happens in college basketball before the 15th of February is insignificant. Let’s see where we are in late February.

 

[Probably_in_Class]

Tennessee needed a coach who
A) Wouldn't embarrass us
B) Would make the tournament consistently

Barnes is perfect for this job. Some of you all have gotten entitled and forgotten where we used to be (like UK and SC football fans).

Excluding the Pearl era (another very high point of UT bball), UT has only made the tournament 9 times since it expanded to 64 teams. That's 29 (no 2020) attempts and Barnes has accounted for a third of those appearances. Barnes is regularly referred to as a HOF Coach by his peers. The insinuations here that's he some sort of middle of the road geezer are so inaccurate that it's laughable. Would I like to win a National Championship? Absolutely, but we're in a better place now than almost any other time in the history of UT basketball. Enjoy it while you can instead of continuing to whine @Volsfaninva917

 

[wmcovol]

Tennessee is always going to struggle to keep up with the Jones's in basketball. They thought they were by keeping Barnes but in reality we're just white trash with money. Tennessee could save a pile of money and get the same results.

There’s a lot of good basketball coaches, far more capable of winning big than football coaches. Thinking Rick Barnes is a messiah is sad.

 

[beachvol23]

Tennessee needed a coach who
A) Wouldn't embarrass us
B) Would make the tournament consistently

Barnes is perfect for this job. Some of you all have gotten entitled and forgotten where we used to be (like UK and SC football fans).

Excluding the Pearl era (another very high point of UT bball), UT has only made the tournament 9 times since it expanded to 64 teams. That's 29 (no 2020) attempts and Barnes has accounted for a third of those appearances. Barnes is regularly referred to as a HOF Coach by his peers. The insinuations here that's he some sort of middle of the road geezer are so inaccurate that it's laughable. Would I like to win a National Championship? Absolutely, but we're in a better place now than almost any other time in the history of UT basketball. Enjoy it while you can instead of continuing to whine @Volsfaninva917

These are valid point however Barnes is not immune to criticism, and should not be! He’s getting paid top 5 money and as experienced as he is, needs to be better at some things! There is nothing wrong with talking about it or expecting it!

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Tennessee needed a coach who
A) Wouldn't embarrass us
B) Would make the tournament consistently

Barnes is perfect for this job. Some of you all have gotten entitled and forgotten where we used to be (like UK and SC football fans).

Excluding the Pearl era (another very high point of UT bball), UT has only made the tournament 9 times since it expanded to 64 teams. That's 29 (no 2020) attempts and Barnes has accounted for a third of those appearances. Barnes is regularly referred to as a HOF Coach by his peers. The insinuations here that's he some sort of middle of the road geezer are so inaccurate that it's laughable. Would I like to win a National Championship? Absolutely, but we're in a better place now than almost any other time in the history of UT basketball. Enjoy it while you can instead of continuing to whine @Volsfaninva917

Again, Barnes is making National Championship money. He raised the bar when he leveraged UT and UCLA for more money and still tried to leave UT. He's not the saint or savior many of you make him out to be but continue to worship at his feet. My point is UT could have these exact same results for a lot less money.

 

[Bigorange123]

Long season yet

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Long season yet

That's true and he certainly could turn this around but given his public frustration and recent comments to the media I think this thing is going to get worse.

 

[AthensVol2007]

Well, that was pretty much understood to be a given the moment the contract was signed, unless he starting making deep tournament runs with regularity and winning SECTs.

We are paying him that much not because he is worth that salary, but because that was the price we had to pay to not have a coach worse than him. Thing is - Rick is great for Tennessee. I do not want him fired. However, the expectations for Tennessee basketball have changed over the years (rightly or wrongly), and people don't really tolerate going a few games over .500 in conference play then getting bounced early in NCAATs anymore. That was considered good 20 years ago, but not today.

It’s definitely not good enough with multiple 4-5* on the roster and a top 5 salary for those results. As you said, it wasnt that he’s worth that it was the price to pay for the unknown and potential slide back.

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

The BB forum is dog crap, they have about 4-5 posters over there that act like weird gate keepers

Nailed it

 

[Probably_in_Class]

Again, Barnes is making National Championship money. He raised the bar when he leveraged UT and UCLA for more money and still tried to leave UT. He's not the saint or savior many of you make him out to be but continue to worship at his feet. My point is UT could have these exact same results for a lot less money.

So you're saying we could have a coach who gets us in the tournament basically every season for say $2.5mil a year? Because other than Pearl, UT has essentially never found that coach, so I find it interesting you think that would be so easy.

You're hung up on the money...why? It's not your money. People have been griping about the AD being cheap for decades. Now that they finally spend a bit to keep us competitive, we have a fanbase full of accountants? Maybe we do overpay a bit, but again, we aren't even remotely a traditional power. We need to overpay for a good coach. The difference in $4mil a year and $5mil a year is .7% of the AD's revenue in a non-pandemic year. I get that saying a million dollars is nothing seems ridiculous, but in this instance, a million here or there really is nothing.

 

[Probably_in_Class]

These are valid point however Barnes is not immune to criticism, and should not be! He’s getting paid top 5 money and as experienced as he is, needs to be better at some things! There is nothing wrong with talking about it or expecting it!

He's absolutely open to criticism and definitely deserves some at this point in the season. Criticize all you like, but acting like UT would be better off without Barnes is simply ridiculous. UT basketball has never won a National Championship or even made a Final Four. The fact some posters think we could simply pluck a championship caliber coach out of thin air for 2 or 3 million is out of touch with reality.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

So you're saying we could have a coach who gets us in the tournament basically every season for say $2.5mil a year? Because other than Pearl, UT has essentially never found that coach, so I find it interesting you think that would be so easy.

You're hung up on the money...why? It's not your money. People have been griping about the AD being cheap for decades. Now that they finally spend a bit to keep us competitive, we have a fanbase full of accountants? Maybe we do overpay a bit, but again, we aren't even remotely a traditional power. We need to overpay for a good coach. The difference in $4mil a year and $5mil a year is .7% of the AD's revenue in a non-pandemic year. I get that saying a million dollars is nothing seems ridiculous, but in this instance, a million here or there really is nothing.

Again, who raised the expectations here? Let's use football as an example since the national championship game was played last night. If JH were making Saban or Smart money would it be fair to demand similar results? Yes, I think so.

Will Wade Makes half of what Barnes does and has similar results, except Wade has an outright SEC title.

Pearl makes about 1.5 million less than Barnes and has had more success.

Nate Oats makes about 2 million less than Barnes and has had similar success.

So yes, the contract he agreed to says he should be far more successful here than what's he's been. He raised the bar not the fans but you do you.

Also, Jerry Green made the tournament every year here. I won't even mention the Pearl years so lets not act like Barnes is the pinnacle of success here.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

He's absolutely open to criticism and definitely deserves some at this point in the season. Criticize all you like, but acting like UT would be better off without Barnes is simply ridiculous. UT basketball has never won a National Championship or even made a Final Four. The fact some posters think we could simply pluck a championship caliber coach out of thin air for 2 or 3 million is out of touch with reality.

If you're going to puke out national championship money for a coach then that should be the standard.

 

[Probably_in_Class]

Again, who raised the expectations here? Let's use football as an example since the national championship game was played last night. If JH were making Saban or Smart money would it be fair to demand similar results? Yes, I think so.

Will Wade Makes half of what Barnes does and has similar results, except Wade has an outright SEC title.

Pearl makes about 1.5 million less than Barnes and has had more success.

Nate Oats makes about 2 million less than Barnes and has had similar success.

So yes, the contract he agreed to says he should be far more successful here than what's he's been. He raised the bar not the fans but you do you.

Also, Jerry Green made the tournament every year here. I won't even mention the Pearl years so lets not act like Barnes is the pinnacle of success here.

Well Pearl raised the expectations. Cuonzo and Tyndall crapped on them and then Barnes got us back to a level of respectability. If Barnes making a lot of money bothers you so much, go root for another team. They could pay Barnes $20mil a year, and I'd still be ok with it. It's not my money, and what is important to me is us having a good basketball team. I think Barnes puts a good basketball team out on the floor, and that's what we're paying for, not national titles.

As for your list, it's mostly ridiculous. Will Wade is lucky he has a job. Pearl is significantly underpaid. That's his fault, not Barnes' fault.

Nate Oats? Now you're just being ridiculous. On what planet do Nate Oats and Rick Barnes have similar levels of success? Oats has won the SEC once, made exactly 1 Sweet 16, and bowed out of the first weekend a few times with Buffalo. That's it. That is his entire resume. Here is like 10% of what Barnes has done: 1 Final Four, 3 Big12 Championships, and 25 tournament appearances. If you think those two are similar, I can't help you.

I'll take Barnes over Jerry Green all day.

Football comparisons work in reverse as well. TAMU, Mich St, Ole Miss, Miami, Stanford, and USC all pay their coaches close to the same or more than Saban and all more than Smart (for now). How many of them will have national titles in the next 3-5 years? My guess is none because when you want an established coach as a program without a tradition of success, you have have to pay for that coach (and in USC's case you may have to overpay even with a track record of success).

Barnes is absolutely open to criticism and deserves some for the season thus far, but his salary is such a dumb thing to get stuck on. It's the cost of doing business, and once again, it's not your money.

 

[95 Vol Alum]

Nate Oats? Now you're just being ridiculous. On what planet do Nate Oats and Rick Barnes have similar levels of success? Oats has won the SEC once, made exactly 1 Sweet 16, and bowed out of the first weekend a few times with Buffalo. That's it. That is his entire resume. Here is like 10% of what Barnes has done: 1 Final Four, 3 Big12 Championships, and 25 tournament appearances. If you think those two are similar, I can't help you.

On the SEC planet:

Oats - 53-26 (0.671); 1 regular season SEC championship; 1 SEC tournament final and championship; 1 Sweet 16
Barnes - 133-77 (0.633); 1 regular season SEC championship; 2 SEC tournament finals; 1 Sweet 16
Head to Head - Oats is 3-1 vs Barnes in the SEC

I think I got those numbers right. On the SEC planet, they don't look to be much different with Oats having the head to head. Doesn't seem like a ridiculous position to take regarding levels of success while in the SEC (disregarding level of pay which I don't care about).

 

[Probably_in_Class]

On the SEC planet:

Oates - 53-26 (0.671); 1 regular season SEC championship; 1 SEC tournament final and championship; 1 Sweet 16
Barnes - 133-77 (0.633); 1 regular season SEC championship; 2 SEC tournament finals; 1 Sweet 16
Head to Head - Oates is 3-1 vs Barnes in the SEC

I think I got those numbers right. On the SEC planet, they don't look to be much different with Oates having the head to head. Doesn't seem like a ridiculous position to take regarding levels of success while in the SEC (disregarding level of pay which I don't care about).

I think that's a dumb way to look at it, but nothing you said is incorrect. @Volsfaninva917 doesn't think Barnes is worth the money. One of the main reasons he's paid so highly is because of all he achieved prior to his arrival at Tennessee. Has his time at UT been the pinnacle of his career? No, probably not, but I'm not sure it's fair to completely ignore 27 years of his career either.

 

[95 Vol Alum]

I think that's a dumb way to look at it, but nothing you said is incorrect. @Volsfaninva917 doesn't think Barnes is worth the money. One of the main reasons he's paid so highly is because of all he achieved prior to his arrival at Tennessee. Has his time at UT been the pinnacle of his career? No, probably not, but I'm not sure it's fair to completely ignore 27 years of his career either.

Coaching is primarily a what have you done for me lately business, unfortunately.

And to go further on your comment that "The fact some posters think we could simply pluck a championship caliber coach out of thin air for 2 or 3 million is out of touch with reality."

Nate Oats - 3 regular season championships and 4 conference tournament championships in 6 seasons of coaching (Alabama literally got a conference championship in Oats' first opportunity for initially paying him $2.5M)

Rick Barnes - 4 regular season championships and 1 conference tournament championship in 34 seasons of coaching (his lone conference tournament championship was the Big East in 1994)

They may neither one finish with a NCAA tournament championship given how hard that is to achieve, but Oats' trajectory certainly looks pretty good.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

I think that's a dumb way to look at it, but nothing you said is incorrect. @Volsfaninva917 doesn't think Barnes is worth the money. One of the main reasons he's paid so highly is because of all he achieved prior to his arrival at Tennessee. Has his time at UT been the pinnacle of his career? No, probably not, but I'm not sure it's fair to completely ignore 27 years of his career either.

Lol what did he achieve prior to his time at UT? He's had 1 final 4 appearance, guess what so does Frank Martin

Basketball is a tournament sport

 

[EasternVol]

UCLA didn't look particularly well coached in that Oregon game. It was more like playground ball.
Juzang looked good though. I'm glad he's gone from UK.

 

[BUBear]

Yep - the basketball forum hipsters ("we were here 15 years ago before everybody else starting caring about basketball!")

What ever happened to the guy that call himself Hatvol? That guy was a total moron.

 

[05_never_again]

What ever happened to the guy that call himself Hatvol? That guy was a total moron.

Unfortunately he passed away. I wasn't familiar with him until I saw people here talking about the fact he had died, but supposedly he was completely different in real life than on the internet.

 

[BUBear]

Unfortunately he passed away. I wasn't familiar with him until I saw people here talking about the fact he had died, but supposedly he was completely different in real life than on the internet.

Sorry to hear about his passing.

He was very opinionated when it came to college basketball and he was seldom right. He liked to pretend that he was associated with big time coaches lol.

 

[SGMVols]

Again, who raised the expectations here? Let's use football as an example since the national championship game was played last night. If JH were making Saban or Smart money would it be fair to demand similar results? Yes, I think so.

Will Wade Makes half of what Barnes does and has similar results, except Wade has an outright SEC title.

Pearl makes about 1.5 million less than Barnes and has had more success.

Nate Oats makes about 2 million less than Barnes and has had similar success.

So yes, the contract he agreed to says he should be far more successful here than what's he's been. He raised the bar not the fans but you do you.

Also, Jerry Green made the tournament every year here. I won't even mention the Pearl years so lets not act like Barnes is the pinnacle of success here.

If a blue blood came after Wade, Pearl, or Oats, then their school would have to pay huge to keep them too.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

If a blue blood came after Wade, Pearl, or Oats, then their school would have to pay huge to keep them too.

.

 

[05_never_again]

Again, who raised the expectations here? Let's use football as an example since the national championship game was played last night. If JH were making Saban or Smart money would it be fair to demand similar results? Yes, I think so.

Will Wade Makes half of what Barnes does and has similar results, except Wade has an outright SEC title.

Pearl makes about 1.5 million less than Barnes and has had more success.

Nate Oats makes about 2 million less than Barnes and has had similar success.

So yes, the contract he agreed to says he should be far more successful here than what's he's been. He raised the bar not the fans but you do you.

Also, Jerry Green made the tournament every year here. I won't even mention the Pearl years so lets not act like Barnes is the pinnacle of success here.

Jerry Green might bee the most underrated figure in the history of the school.

Won 71% of his games, made the tournament every year, made it to a Sweet Sixteen. He was here 2 less years and had less NCAAT success than Pearl, but he won a higher % of his game than he did. And all at a moment in time when the basketball program was, for all intents and purposes, completely neglected as far as admin support.

Why did he resign again?