How Jake Fromm became the draft's biggest freefall and what it means for UGA

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Don't know how a guy from middle GA is going to like Buffalo winters. Seems like a bad climate fit.

 

[05_never_again]

He's got a high football IQ, but so much of CFB comes down to the ability to make big plays. I mean look at Saban...he doesn't lose to pocket QB's. He loses to dual-threat guys. That's why you take Fields over Fromm, IMO.

Yuuuuup.

Excluding Saban's very first season, the only pocket QBs (and admittedly, there just aren't all that many of them anymore so he has less chances to lose to them than he used to) he has lost to are Jarrett Lee and Jordan Jefferson. Both of them got playing time in the 2010 and 2011 games.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

He's got a high football IQ, but so much of CFB comes down to the ability to make big plays. I mean look at Saban...he doesn't lose to pocket QB's. He loses to dual-threat guys. That's why you take Fields over Fromm, IMO.

You’re right, DT QB’s have given Saban the most problems. It’s bad that I can quickly make a list of the QB’s Saban has lost to because it happens so infrequently.

Also, has anyone listened to Kirby defend his offense from last year? He basically said that his QB’s wouldn’t get hurt as much being a typical PP, pro form QB and that was his reasoning.

 

[05_never_again]

You’re right, DT QB’s have given Saban the most problems. It’s bad that I can quickly make a list of the QB’s Saban has lost to because it happens so infrequently.

Also, has anyone listened to Kirby defend his offense from last year? He basically said that his QB’s wouldn’t get hurt as much being a typical PP, pro form QB and that was his reasoning.

He also made an incredibly interesting statement after the South Carolina loss last year. He walked up to the podium after the game and the very first thing he said was that the difference in the game was Georgia not being able to create enough turnovers to even up the turnover margin. In Kirby's mind, the difference in the game was not that his offense (Fromm specifically) turned the ball over 4 times, but that his defense didn't generate any to make up for it.

I thought that was a totally idiotic and stupid assessment/interpretation of what had just occurred - that's fine to think in those terms if you're still a DC, but he's the HC now.

 

[LouderVol]

He also made an incredibly interesting statement after the South Carolina loss last year. He walked up to the podium after the game and the very first thing he said was that the difference in the game was Georgia not being able to create enough turnovers to even up the turnover margin. In Kirby's mind, the difference in the game was not that his offense (Fromm specifically) turned the ball over 4 times, but that his defense didn't generate any to make up for it.

I thought that was a totally idiotic and stupid assessment/interpretation of what had just occurred - that's fine to think in those terms if you're still a DC, but he's the HC now.

As the HC he knows it's a balance. If the D cant generate turnovers the O better not commit any. If the O is causing turnovers the D better step up.

The offenses goal is score 1 more point than their defense allows, and the Ds goal is to allow one less point than the offense scores. It's a seesaw so I dont see smarts comments as wrong.

 

[n_huffhines]

As the HC he knows it's a balance. If the D cant generate turnovers the O better not commit any. If the O is causing turnovers the D better step up.

The offenses goal is score 1 more point than their defense allows, and the Ds goal is to allow one less point than the offense scores. It's a seesaw so I dont see smarts comments as wrong.

You can't just decide to force turnovers, tho. SC played it super conservative. They only passed for 155 yards and 46 of those came on a first-half TD.

 

[05_never_again]

As the HC he knows it's a balance. If the D cant generate turnovers the O better not commit any. If the O is causing turnovers the D better step up.

The offenses goal is score 1 more point than their defense allows, and the Ds goal is to allow one less point than the offense scores. It's a seesaw so I dont see smarts comments as wrong.

What huff said. There's a certain amount of luck involved in forcing turnovers, and the numbers show it is hard to consistently do it from game to game, season to season. If the offense is turning it over, then they need to stop freaking making them.

Georgia's problem in that game was their offense, and particularly Fromm, who threw 3 INTs (to be fair, the third one wasn't on him). They also didn't run the ball anywhere near as efficiently as they normally do (4 YPC) as South Carolina's defensive line dominated Georgia's offensive line. Georgia's defense, meanwhile, only allowed 20 points and 297 total yards. Yet that's where Kirby said the problem was with.

And I get it - modern football is a really offensive-oriented game. It's so damn hard to prevent offenses from getting yards, so defensive staffs focus on generating turnovers and playing good red zone defense instead. From the defensive perspective I've always looked at turnovers as a "nice to have" kind of thing, not something you base your entire defensive philosophy around. You can really only focus on being in good position, which will inevitably lead to turnover generation.

 

[rjd970]

My opinion is Fromm has bust written all over him, same as Tua. Neither will be surrounded by a stupid big talent advantage in the Pros. They are going to have to actually play the position on an equal playing field.

As far as Smart, this just continues the argument he really is Richt 2.0, and maybe even worse given the talent he has assembled while achieving the same hardware results in the trophy case.

 

[05_never_again]

My opinion is Fromm has bust written all over him, same as Tua. Neither will be surrounded by a stupid big talent advantage in the Pros. They are going to have to actually play the position on an equal playing field.

As far as Smart, this just continues the argument he really is Richt 2.0, and maybe even worse given the talent he has assembled while achieving the same hardware results in the trophy case.

Absolutely uncanny how similar Kirby's first 3 seasons at Georgia are compared to Richt's first 3 seasons. Even down to specific losses.

Georgia fans really don't want to admit that, and often deflect to irrelevant points (e.g., Kirby is a hardass out of the Saban mold and is the better recruiter while Richt was like a preacher), but the on-the-field similarities are there.

 

[feathersax]

You can't just decide to force turnovers, tho. SC played it super conservative. They only passed for 155 yards and 46 of those came on a first-half TD.

After all this time I STILL don't see how USCjr beat the dawgs, but I LOVE it.

 

[05_never_again]

After all this time I STILL don't see how USCjr beat the dawgs, but I LOVE it.

The turnovers + Georgia's offensive line, who the media creamed their pants over last year, got dominated by South Carolina's defensive line.

South Carolina's front 7 last year was totally legit and underrated though...they had a LB and 2 defensive linemen drafted off of it the other day, including Kinlaw who was the 14th overall pick. Muschamp is not a good HC but he is a good developer of defensive players.

 

[Remy]

Fromm is a mediocre pro prospect at best. He will do well if he can hang around carrying a clipboard for more than a few years.

Unfortunately for the young man on most draft boards he ended up being a career backup at best.

 

[LouderVol]

You can't just decide to force turnovers, tho. SC played it super conservative. They only passed for 155 yards and 46 of those came on a first-half TD.

I didnt watch the game so I dont know what Georgia did or didnt do. Did they ever dial up the pressure, change schemes or protections?

Even if you cant get turnovers you can force pressure and turn that into sacks, missed passes, what ever.

The point is you have to play the game, whatever that game may need. You dont expect you defense to play the same vs a team like 08 Bama vs a 2018 Oklahoma. You make adjustments. That was always the issue with Butch is that they never adjusted and it got us burnt.

 

[TheDeeble]

My opinion is Fromm has bust written all over him, same as Tua. Neither will be surrounded by a stupid big talent advantage in the Pros. They are going to have to actually play the position on an equal playing field.

As far as Smart, this just continues the argument he really is Richt 2.0, and maybe even worse given the talent he has assembled while achieving the same hardware results in the trophy case.

Eh. 5th round pick its hard to call someone a bust if they don't work out.

Tua however carries definite bust potential.

 

[Atlanta917]

Absolutely uncanny how similar Kirby's first 3 seasons at Georgia are compared to Richt's first 3 seasons. Even down to specific losses.

Georgia fans really don't want to admit that, and often deflect to irrelevant points (e.g., Kirby is a hardass out of the Saban mold and is the better recruiter while Richt was like a preacher), but the on-the-field similarities are there.

Kind of similar in the fact they both overachieved in year 2. Richt couldn’t beat Florida, while Kirby is having his way with them. Kirby has also played more ranked teams and top 10 teams through 4 years and actually has a winning record against top 10 opponents. Doubt anyone would say Richt wasn’t successful early on, but his issues came later. Richt fielded competitive teams once every 5 years. 2002, 2007, and 2012 were the only years he had UGA in contention. So far Kirby has had UGA there in 3 out of 4 years. Richt in his prime vs Kirby in his prime would be an interesting conversation, but not current Richt vs current Kirby.

 

[05_never_again]

Kind of similar in the fact they both overachieved in year 2. Richt couldn’t beat Florida, while Kirby is having his way with them. Kirby has also played more ranked teams and top 10 teams through 4 years and actually has a winning record against top 10 opponents. Doubt anyone would say Richt wasn’t successful early on, but his issues came later. Richt fielded competitive teams once every 5 years. 2002, 2007, and 2012 were the only years he had UGA in contention. So far Kirby has had UGA there in 3 out of 4 years. Richt in his prime vs Kirby in his prime would be an interesting conversation, but not current Richt vs current Kirby.

Current Richt vs. Current Kirby I don't think is the relevant basis for comparison though. There's no doubt Current Kirby is better than Current or 5 years ago Richt.

Both Kirby and Richt arrived at Georgia as young, fresh-faced assistants seeking to put their stamp on a program thought to be underachieving. In each of their first 3 years, their performance was very similar. There was a difference in Year 4...Kirby played for the SEC title again while Richt did not.

 

[Atlanta917]

Current Richt vs. Current Kirby I don't think is the relevant basis for comparison though. There's no doubt Current Kirby is better than Current or 5 years ago Richt.

Both Kirby and Richt arrived at Georgia as young, fresh-faced assistants seeking to put their stamp on a program thought to be underachieving. In each of their first 3 years, their performance was very similar. There was a difference in Year 4...Kirby played for the SEC title again while Richt did not.

IMO it’s relevant since UGA didn’t have the option of Prime Richt at the time of the change. The main difference, imo, is Kirby having played more ranked opponents and having a better record against top 10 opponents. Looking back it’s also a bit odd how ppl considered Richt consistent when he only fielded competitive teams once every 5 years, though that could just be recency bias.

 

[05_never_again]

IMO it’s relevant since UGA didn’t have the option of Prime Richt at the time of the change. The main difference, imo, is Kirby having played more ranked opponents and having a better record against top 10 opponents. Looking back it’s also a bit odd how ppl considered Richt consistent when he only fielded competitive teams once every 5 years, though that could just be recency bias.

I think you're defining "competitive team" as "a team that can win a national title," which is a really high bar. I would define "competitive team" as a team that is basically always relevant - either winning hardware, almost winning hardware, or being in a realistic conversation about potentially winning hardware. Georgia was basically always relevant when Richt was their coach, in contrast to a team like Tennessee, which hasn't been relevant in over a decade.

Richt was consistent because he won at least 9 games in 11 of his 15 seasons. He only had a couple years that I would call stinkers - 2009 and 2010. Is Georgia capable of more than that? Yes, which is why he was fired, but he did consistently field good teams.

IMO, Richt is Phil Fulmer except his highs weren't as high and his lows weren't as low as Fulmer's were. Fulmer won a national title that Richt never got, but also had 2 5-win seasons and recruiting fall off a cliff that Richt never had.

 

[Atlanta917]

I think you're defining "competitive team" as "a team that can win a national title," which is a really high bar. I would define "competitive team" as a team that is basically always relevant - either winning hardware, almost winning hardware, or being in a realistic conversation about potentially winning hardware. Georgia was basically always relevant when Richt was their coach, in contrast to a team like Tennessee, which hasn't been relevant in over a decade.

Richt was consistent because he won at least 9 games in 11 of his 15 seasons. He only had a couple years that I would call stinkers - 2009 and 2010. Is Georgia capable of more than that? Yes, which is why he was fired, but he did consistently field good teams.

IMO, Richt is Phil Fulmer except his highs weren't as high and his lows weren't as low as Fulmer's were. Fulmer won a national title that Richt never got, but also had 2 5-win seasons and recruiting fall off a cliff that Richt never had.

For competitive I meant a team being in the hunt until the conference championship and finishing top 10. I was young during Richt’s early years, but I never remember him staying in the top 10 consistently. What plagued Richt and eventually cost him his job was playing down to the competition and not winning big games. He definitely left the program in a better condition than he found it though.

 

[05_never_again]

For competitive I meant a team being in the hunt until the conference championship and finishing top 10. I was young during Richt’s early years, but I never remember him staying in the top 10 consistently. What plagued Richt and eventually cost him his job was playing down to the competition and not winning big games. He definitely left the program in a better condition than he found it though.

During Richt's first 7 seasons, he finished in the top 10 5 times.

What ultimately cost Richt was going too long without winning some hardware. He won the SEC twice in his first 5 seasons, but none after that. Richt was very frequently in the hunt, but always 1-2 losses a year that kept him out.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

My opinion is Fromm has bust written all over him, same as Tua. Neither will be surrounded by a stupid big talent advantage in the Pros. They are going to have to actually play the position on an equal playing field.

As far as Smart, this just continues the argument he really is Richt 2.0, and maybe even worse given the talent he has assembled while achieving the same hardware results in the trophy case.

I agree with this.

2 things that jumped out at me from that article were saying that Fromm will be lucky to develop into a backup..if that....and Cam Newton already labeled as a backup QB. I hate Cam, always have. I live in Charlotte and am a Panthers fan..but only with a fraction of the passion I have for the Vols. I couldnt wait to get rid of Scam, and it speaks volumes when he is released and immediately considered a backup by the rest of the league. If nobody else in the NFL wants Scam as a starter, that's embarrassing that he WAS the franchise QB here...for far too long.

BTW...I stayed up late at night to see the announcement of whether or not we would get a franchise in Charlotte..have been a Panthers fan since before we chose the name Panthers...when we went to the SuperBowl against Peyton and the Broncos...I pulled for Peyton to get his 2nd ring in a house and city full of Panthers fans. Wore my UT Jersey in fact. I am a VFL.

Also...love to see Georgia get a rep for squandering QBs while we have Peyton as our advocate. Helps us get the 5 stars. Also, Smart is no Richt. He does even less, with more talent, and is not half the stand up Christian man Richt is. I never liked Richt, but I always respected him for being a good man and a Brother in Christ. Smart is a used car salesman...just like Butch. He just came from the Saban tree and had doors opened for him. Cant stand the guy.

 

[05_never_again]

I agree with this.

2 things that jumped out at me from that article were saying that Fromm will be lucky to develop into a backup..if that....and Cam Newton already labeled as a backup QB. I hate Cam, always have. I live in Charlotte and am a Panthers fan..but only with a fraction of the passion I have for the Vols. I couldnt wait to get rid of Scam, and it speaks volumes when he is released and immediately considered a backup by the rest of the league. If nobody else in the NFL wants Scam as a starter, that's embarrassing that he WAS the franchise QB here...for far too long.

BTW...I stayed up late at night to see the announcement of whether or not we would get a franchise in Charlotte..have been a Panthers fan since before we chose the name Panthers...when we went to the SuperBowl against Peyton and the Broncos...I pulled for Peyton to get his 2nd ring in a house and city full of Panthers fans. Wore my UT Jersey in fact. I am a VFL.

Also...love to see Georgia get a rep for squandering QBs while we have Peyton as our advocate. Helps us get the 5 stars. Also, Smart is no Richt. He does even less, with more talent, and is not half the stand up Christian man Richt is. I never liked Richt, but I always respected him for being a good man and a Brother in Christ. Smart is a used car salesman...just like Butch. He just came from the Saban tree and had doors opened for him. Cant stand the guy.

To be fair, a lot of the hesitancy about signing Cam today is his injury history, and rightly or wrongly many people see his poor play the last couple years as a function of him not being healthy, not because he sucks and should have been a career backup. He's also now on the wrong side of 30 (he'll be 31 when the season starts). If he's healthy, and that's a gigantic if, he's probably still good enough to start somewhere.

Having said that, I've always personally thought he was overrated as an NFL QB, even early in his career when he was young/healthy/more productive. If it wasn't for the 2015 season where he won MVP and had his SB run, he'd have absolutely nothing to hang his hat on as an NFL QB.

 

[n_huffhines]

To be fair, a lot of the hesitancy about signing Cam today is his injury history, and rightly or wrongly many people see his poor play the last couple years as a function of him not being healthy, not because he sucks and should have been a career backup. He's also now on the wrong side of 30 (he'll be 31 when the season starts). If he's healthy, and that's a gigantic if, he's probably still good enough to start somewhere.

Having said that, I've always personally thought he was overrated as an NFL QB, even early in his career when he was young/healthy/more productive. If it wasn't for the 2015 season where he won MVP and had his SB run, he'd have absolutely nothing to hang his hat on as an NFL QB.

Cam was willing the Panthers to victory in 2018 and he could hardly throw. By the end of the year it was apparent to everybody and it became easy to stop him, kinda like with Peyton.

People hate on him so bad and it clouds their evaluation of him. His personality drives me crazy too, but you have to respect his game. Refs really did let teams just tee off on him like no other modern QB. It's pretty messed up.

 

[kbear01]

Also, Fromm lost his top receivers from 2018.

Exactly. New OC. New receivers. Its alot to overcome, in the SEC. Luckily for him, they played "Mad" defense.

 

[kbear01]

Cam was willing the Panthers to victory in 2018 and he could hardly throw. By the end of the year it was apparent to everybody and it became easy to stop him, kinda like with Peyton.

People hate on him so bad and it clouds their evaluation of him. His personality drives me crazy too, but you have to respect his game. Refs really did let teams just tee off on him like no other modern QB. It's pretty messed up.

1. Cam has got to get healthy. So he can use all of his tools, and evaluate, at 31, how he needs to change his game, if at all.
2. Come to grips with your age. Just as Peyton had to adjust to aging. Be smart. Win the game, in the film room, and on the practice field.
3. Throw the damn ball away, if there's nothing there.

I really feel that Cam still has the tools to be a starting QB, and be a game changer.