Humor OE and read this book....

[OrangeEmpire]

Hey OE. I finished this book. It was a good read.

Do you go with gs or do you think the argument is reasonable?

 

[615 Vol]

Do you go with gs or do you think the argument is reasonable?

Should I buy it OE? I just got started on Meat Market yesterday, I need to read more books, watch less TV, Alzheimer's runs in my family.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Should I buy it OE? I just got started on Meat Market yesterday, I need to read more books, watch less TV, Alzheimer's runs in my family.

I think it is a good read and I think the argument is spot on.

:hi:

 

[vader]

Should I buy it OE? I just got started on Meat Market yesterday, I need to read more books, watch less TV, Alzheimer's runs in my family.

ha ha. I started Meat Market a couple of days ago right after finishing OE's recommended book.

 

[vader]

Do you go with gs or do you think the argument is reasonable?

I do not see what is so unreasonable about the claims he makes in the book. I do not share gs' outrage by the author's thesis.

 

[OrangeYankee]

OE I will read this book, but I will state my concern. I think the 1st amendment has been so perverted in the last hundred years, that it is hard to have any objectivity. The only time someone is labeled objective is when they say Christianity is bad or overbearing. Do I think the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson take it too far? Ya, but that's what they do, they are preachers. However, you can't look at me square in the face and say that the ACLU and the likes haven't way overstepped their boundaries and trampled over the individual rights of Christian people who happen to work in the public sector especially. A person should NOT be afraid to take a bible to their workplace. Just the same if someone took a Koran or any other religious material. Heck they could even talk about it as far as I care, because you know that's their right. And if kids want to gather on their own accord and pray or have religious studies... no one should stop them. Grow some skin, and let it go. That would solve a lot of problems if everyone would quit getting their panties in a wad over what people say or do on every little thing.

The problem is, Secular Humanism is a belief system thus making it for all intents and purposes a religious practice. And it is heavily sponsored by the State, and almost enforced, and not only do people seem to not mind it, but they almost encourage it. I have an open mind and won't comment until I read the book, but as it stands right now that is my over all stance on the issue. I'm a live and let live guy, but that is a two way road here.

 

[gsvol]

I do not see what is so unreasonable about the claims he makes in the book. I do not share gs' outrage by the author's thesis.

Who said I was outraged??

I merely pointed out that the author cherry picks his material and presents nothing new other than to further promote the atheistic (marxist) secular humanist version of history.

They would love the Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

to read; "endowed by the big bang."

 

[utvolpj]

The problem is, Secular Humanism is a belief system thus making it for all intents and purposes a religious practice.

lack of a belief system != a religion

promote the atheistic (marxist) secular humanist version of history.

you've equated atheists to Marx/Communists/etc quite a few times. Doesn't make it right no many how many more times you cut/paste it.

 

[gsvol]

lack of a belief system != a religion

The first Humanist Manifesto spoke openly of Humanism as a religion.

In the 1950's, Humanists sought and obtained tax-exempt status as religious organizations. Even the Supreme Court of the United States spoke in 1961 of Secular Humanism as a religion. It was a struggle to get atheism accepted as a religion, but it happened. From 1962-1980 this was not a controversial issue.......

Now Secular Humanists have completely reversed their strategy, and claim that Humanism is not at all religious, but is "scientific."

This page examines two issues:

* Secular Humanists and Humanistic courts have admitted that Humanism is a religion.

* Why they now claim Humanism is not a religion, in order to avoid problems under the "Establishment Clause" of the First Amendment.

you've equated atheists to Marx/Communists/etc quite a few times. Doesn't make it right no many how many more times you cut/paste it.

The reason I placed 'marxism' in ( ), is because the main promoters of 'secular humanism' are marxists of some sort.

One need not be an atheist or marxist to subscribe to secular humanism but you might call those sorts of secular humanists to be 'useful idiots.'

You speak as if you had been cut and pasted yourself.

Could be there is some sort of marxist/communist that isn't an atheist, perhaps you would enlighten me???

Why do you capitalize 'communist'???

Is that part of your belief system??

 

[OrangeYankee]

lack of a belief system != a religion

Where did I say they lacked beliefs? That is kind of my point as it stands currently. Secular Humanists, Atheists, Progressives, or whatever label they want to have, have very STRONG beliefs. To them the belief in no higher power is almost as zealous as the most radical religious nut you can throw at me. The problem is they have the permission and downright blessing by all the big wigs to do whatever the hell they please. To be honest I have no problem with this at all either, other than the fact they see no problem with trampling over the religious freedoms of those "unenlightened" that still believe in something beyond their own mortality.

 

[utvolpj]

while the court opinions, or rather the footnotes of opinions, may see them all as the same there are different types (and how the word secular came about). Do all Christians believe the same? I assume you just lump LDS and Southern Baptists all together?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Wow, my head hurts...

 

[OrangeYankee]

while the court opinions, or rather the footnotes of opinions, may see them all as the same there are different types (and how the word secular came about). Do all Christians believe the same? I assume you just lump LDS and Southern Baptists all together?

Of course, there are different types. And I'm not even saying all secular people, be it atheist, agnostic, or just simply non religious, are all evil commies intent on destroying society. I'm also not saying that religion is not trying to shove its way too head strong into politics either. I'm just saying even believing in nothing is a form of belief system, and that faction has its fair share of zealots but they just get a pass for the most part, and I find that some what bothersome.

However, that is why I will read this book, because I think this is an interesting topic. The religious sector of the conservative movement may be doing more damage than good, for lack of better words. Mainly because all they seem to care about is if a politician says he won't let gays get hitched, says he's pro life, and goes to church... well by golly he gets elected, never mind the fact that he spends like a drunken sailor, tries to inject government power over places it does not belong, and basically flushes our country down the toilet. And if you are keeping score: Abortion is still legal, and gay marriage is closer to becoming legal, but our country is in worse shape at the hands of Washington by the day.

 

[gsvol]

Where did I say they lacked beliefs? That is kind of my point as it stands currently. Secular Humanists, Atheists, Progressives, or whatever label they want to have, have very STRONG beliefs. To them the belief in no higher power is almost as zealous as the most radical religious nut you can throw at me. The problem is they have the permission and downright blessing by all the big wigs to do whatever the hell they please. To be honest I have no problem with this at all either, other than the fact they see no problem with trampling over the religious freedoms of those "unenlightened" that still believe in something beyond their own mortality.

The real problem begins where belief systems and politics meet and the fact that education has been greatly politicized.

 

[utvolpj]

I'm just saying even believing in nothing is a form of belief system,

but not a religion as you're try to frame it.

And if you are keeping score: Abortion is still legal, and gay marriage is closer to becoming legal, but our country is in worse shape at the hands of Washington by the day.

Freedom: 2
Others: 0

 

[gsvol]

Wow, my head hurts...

Take a B. C.!

 

[gsvol]

And if you are keeping score: Abortion is still legal, and gay marriage is closer to becoming legal, but our country is in worse shape at the hands of Washington by the day.

Score:

perversions 2
morals 0

 

[gsvol]

 

[gsvol]

So humor gs and read; 'Christian Life & Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States', originally published in 1864 and out of print for over a hundred years but now available again.

Get a copy for $1.00 (+$3.95 shipping). on CDrom. (with bonus material.)

Free full text. (please pardon typos)

The work is not speculative or theoretical, but a series of facts to unfold and establish the Christian life and character of the civil institutions of the United States, in the light of which every American citizen can trace to Its -source the true glory of the nation, and learn to appreciate its institutions and to venerate and imitate the great and good men who founded them.

"True religion affords to Government its surest support."
— George Washington.

'"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.''
— John Quincy Adams.

"The religion of the New Testament — that religion which is founded on the teachings of Jesus Christ and his Apostles — is as sure a guide to duty in politics and legislation as in any concern of life."
— Daniel Webster.

"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure, when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gifts of God?"
-- Thomas Jefferson
-----------------------------------------------------

Another book along the same lines:

America's Christian History-The Untold Story


By Gary DeMar

Christianity is written on every page of America's amazing history.

Gary DeMar presents well-documented facts which will change your perspective about what it means to be a Christian in America; the truth about America's Christian past as it relates to supreme court justices, and presidents; the Christian character of colonial charters, state constitutions, and the US Constitution; the Christian foundation of colleges, the Christian character of Washington, D.C.; the origin of Thanksgiving and so much more.

Three appendixes have been added that further emphasize Christianity's positive influence on America.

Additional information includes Deism and the Founding of America and Jesus Christ and the Founding of America.

This is an indispensable book which is needed in a time when even "under God" is coming under fire.

 

[OrangeYankee]

Ya my whole point on the abortion still being legal and gay marriage was not to debate those points per se, but to point out that christian base keep electing clowns that are flushing our financial stability down the toilet, only because they sing the conservative tune on those issues yet they still are legal/plugging along. (IE they aren't making any difference in those fields anyway and are far more damaging in others)

 

[gsvol]

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
- Patrick Henry

 

[utvolpj]

 

[gsvol]

Tobias Lear was a sorry piece of crap as well as a thief, no big wonder he ended up committing suicide.

Are you sure that treaty was ever ratified????

The whole of that sorry piece of paper work is related in great detail in a book entitled; "Congress - A History of Cowardice."

At any rate they have certainly broken the treaty, how about if you go wave that little piece of paper around when they are celebrating the national "Death to America" holiday in Iran???

From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli.

TO THE MEMORY OF SOMERS, CALDWELL, DECATUR, WADSWORTH, DORSEY, ISRAEL

Captain William Eaton

The Pirate Coast

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
George Washington

"We Recognize no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus"
John Hancock

“The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”
John Quincy Adams 6th US President
and son of John Adams

“The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.”
The US Congress 1782

“Only one adequate plan has ever appeared in the world, and that is the Christian dispensation.”
- John Jay, First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court

“The United States of America were no longer Colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians.”
- John Qunicy Adams

“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”
- Benjamin Franklin

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is; First: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”
- Alexander Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
- Thomas Jefferson

“ I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . .

There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story

“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
- Noah Webster

“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism.

Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence.

They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.”
- Thomas Paine

BTW, muslim pirates have captured 5 more merchant ships within the past 48 hours, some things never change.