Hypothetical

[hatvol96]

We're talking Humphrey for Howell. Don't tangent me. I'm not talking about d and rb's, though Bradshaw could and did buy minutes at point and won a couple of state champ trophies and mvp's for doing so in hs.

Dane Bradshaw played minutes at the point his first two years at UT and was disgracefully bad. Wade Parsons scored about 8 million point in high school. How'd that translate at UT?

 

[DaDuRkEr]

Jajuan and Lofton in opposing corners, whether in transition, or in the half court created eachother shots. I don't see how that is absurd. In transition, it was one heck of a triple threat with Tyler headed toward the rim. In the halfcourt, post feed from JP to Wayne, Wayne kicks out to Jajuan, who then hits Dane at the top of the key, who then swings it to Lofton in the corner for an open 3... Tell me that didn't happen in about every single game they played together... more often than not, multiple times.

 

[hatvol96]

Tabb was running the point back then some as well, and he was a pretty good perimeter defender.

So?

 

[tennrich1]

That's utterly absurd.

While not absurd, it probably wouldn't apply as much in this case...All sports, especially basketball, is primary about match ups, miss matches, spacing, etc...Humphreys could "fill it up" as could Chris but game scheming has the most impact on each game and each game a career makes...so have fun debating a subject without an answer...and life goes on... :salute:

 

[Spartacavolus]

Jajuan and Lofton in opposing corners, whether in transition, or in the half court created eachother shots. I don't see how that is absurd. In transition, it was one heck of a triple threat with Tyler headed toward the rim. In the halfcourt, post feed from JP to Wayne, Wayne kicks out to Jajuan, who then hits Dane at the top of the key, who then swings it to Lofton in the corner for an open 3... Tell me that didn't happen in about every single game they played together... more often than not, multiple times.

(To add: And many times, the terrible Bradshaw was the one penetrating and kicking it out because noone else would consistently step up.)

It's not absurd, if you actually know what you are watching on the basketball court. If you are pissed off at a coach or only into %'s or random player comparisons, it's going to be completely absurd.

 

[DaDuRkEr]

Stanley Asumnu was all-world in HS, but he isn't relevent to this conversation but I am gonna bring him up anyway...

 

[DaDuRkEr]

Since none of the people in the hypothetical threesome, Humphrey with two of Smith-Lofton-Bradshaw, can remotely play point guard, how do you propose that group would have defended and rebounded?

You asked how we would've defended and said we couldn't run the pt. That is why. No need to be condescending hat. I am not threatening you or being hostile. Just adding to the conversation my friend

 

[DaDuRkEr]

(To add: And many times, the terrible Bradshaw was the one penetrating and kicking it out because noone else would consistently step up.)

It's not absurd, if you actually know what you are watching on the basketball court. If you are pissed off at a coach or only into %'s or random player comparisons, it's going to be completely absurd.

Agreed

 

[hatvol96]

(To add: And many times, the terrible Bradshaw was the one penetrating and kicking it out because noone else would consistently step up.)

It's not absurd, if you actually know what you are watching on the basketball court. If you are pissed off at a coach or only into %'s or random player comparisons, it's going to be completely absurd.

So, you are saying Lofton and Smith got shots because their defenders often left them to guard the other guy? That's the issue. Humphrey thrived on getting shots because his guy was busy trying to help the post. Call me crazy, but I just don't remember a lot of teams doubling Smith or Lofton 25 feet from the basket.

 

[Spartacavolus]

So, you are saying Lofton and Smith got shots because their defenders often left them to guard the other guy? That's the issue. Humphrey thrived on getting shots because his guy was busy trying to help the post. Call me crazy, but I just don't remember a lot of teams doubling Smith or Lofton 25 feet from the basket.

They didn't get doubled, but teams did run another player at lofton at times and if Howell was in the game his man left him everytime, to help wherever. Humphrey wouldn't have allowed that option, so then you have a player that shoots better and opens up a lane because his man can't leave him. I can't see how that wouldn't help any team.
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[hatvol96]

They didn't get doubled, but teams did run another player at lofton at times and if Howell was in the game his man left him everytime, to help wherever. Humphrey wouldn't have allowed that option, so then you have a player that shoots better and opens up a lane because his man can't leave him. I can't see how that wouldn't help any team.
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I didn't say it wouldn't help. I said the difference would be minimal. How many minutes did Howell actually play? How many of those were at the point? Humphrey's minutes would have come at the expense of Smith or Lofton. If you think that would have beneficial, that's fine.

 

[JZVOL]

Lofton and Jajuan. Loften benefitted from Jajuan in the opposite corner as much as Humphrey benefitted from the Noah/Horford duo. Taureen Green was an underrated part of that team IMO as well. He was the glue that held Noah's ego in check... similar to CJ's elbow kept his teeth lookin like a jack-o-lantern.

I wonder how those locker room and practice discussions go now that they are on the same team. I'm sure the other players get a geek or two out of Noah's tooth-gap due to CJ.

If the ball is in one corner with Lofton and hypothetically J. Smith is in the opposite corner, Smith's man is going to be at the help-line anyway. How many skip passes did either receive from the other and drain a three?

Any college wing player is going to be able to meet the ball on a corner-to-corner skip pass.

It makes far more sense for Humphrey to enter the ball to the post and receive and inside-out type pass and be able to get a three off when defenders sink to the level of the ball or double down when ball is in the post.

 

[Spartacavolus]

I didn't say it wouldn't help. I said the difference would be minimal. How many minutes did Howell actually play? How many of those were at the point? Humphrey's minutes would have come at the expense of Smith or Lofton. If you think that would have beneficial, that's fine.

More than he should have, the way he was playing, but I believe he played @ 15 minutes his last 2 years. I'd give those to Humphrey in a minute. No, I'm not giving lofton or smith minutes to humphrey, unless there is an injury or foul issue.

 

[hatvol96]

More than he should have, the way he was playing, but I believe he played @ 15 minutes his last 2 years. I'd give those to Humphrey in a minute. No, I'm not giving lofton or smith minutes to humphrey, unless there is an injury or foul issue.

That means Humphrey would have been playing the point. Can't imagine that would have worked well.

 

[DaDuRkEr]

If the ball is in one corner with Lofton and hypothetically J. Smith is in the opposite corner, Smith's man is going to be at the help-line anyway. How many skip passes did either receive from the other and drain a three?

Any college wing player is going to be able to meet the ball on a corner-to-corner skip pass.

It makes far more sense for Humphrey to enter the ball to the post and receive and inside-out type pass and be able to get a three off when defenders sink to the level of the ball or double down when ball is in the post.

I never said that Jajuan heaved the ball from one corner to Lofton in the other, I mentioned having them both in the corner, mixed with swing passes via Dane at the top of the key and lagging defensive rotation. They probably never onced tossed a skip pass to eachother without a middle-man.

 

[DaDuRkEr]

I am still happy we had Dane instead of Humphrey. Our team needs disctated that to be true. Humphrey would've flat out been lost on the depth chart. I will say Jordan's handles were better than Humphrey's. Not by a lot, but a noticable difference. Humphrey was strictly a spot up shooter. Howell honestly probably met our team needs more than Humphrey would've anyway.

Note: "If" Humphrey, Lofton, and Jajuan would've shared the back court, to say that Humphrey would've been the one playing the pt is comical. He had the worst handles and passing ability out of the 3. Jajuan would've run the point, and his game wasn't very cerebral, but no way you sacrifice Lofton's talents at the pt and Humphrey would've turned the ball over 8 times a game if he had the ball in his hands 20 minutes a game. I still think Jajuan would've been the best option of the 3.

 

[DaDuRkEr]

So, you are saying Lofton and Smith got shots because their defenders often left them to guard the other guy? That's the issue. Humphrey thrived on getting shots because his guy was busy trying to help the post. Call me crazy, but I just don't remember a lot of teams doubling Smith or Lofton 25 feet from the basket.

I don't recall anyone doubling Lofton other than from traps while running a lil pick-n-roll occasionally. Never recall Jajuan gettign doubled either, but stretching the defense to both ends of the baseline creates a lot of room, so you either gave Tyler, JP, and others lanes to slash in or you would give up the deep ball due to lack of rotation with good ball movement. That can be just as effective as passing out of a double team to get good looks. Again, I am not looking for an argument. I can see your points, I just disagree with you in areas. I'm not calling you crazy. There is a reason there are over 400 div1 coaches, and all have their own style from various influences. There are more than 5000 ways to skin the cat of getting open looks... and any coach that is doubling out on anyone 25 ft from the basket in a half court set with any consistency is not going to last long. lol

 

[hatvol96]

I am still happy we had Dane instead of Humphrey. Our team needs disctated that to be true. Humphrey would've flat out been lost on the depth chart. I will say Jordan's handles were better than Humphrey's. Not by a lot, but a noticable difference. Humphrey was strictly a spot up shooter. Howell honestly probably met our team needs more than Humphrey would've anyway.

Note: "If" Humphrey, Lofton, and Jajuan would've shared the back court, to say that Humphrey would've been the one playing the pt is comical. He had the worst handles and passing ability out of the 3. Jajuan would've run the point, and his game wasn't very cerebral, but no way you sacrifice Lofton's talents at the pt and Humphrey would've turned the ball over 8 times a game if he had the ball in his hands 20 minutes a game. I still think Jajuan would've been the best option of the 3.

Smith and Lofton were such adequate point guards that JP Prince ended up playing the position in the Sweet 16. Any of the 3 would have been a disaster.

 

[ukvols]

So, you are saying Lofton and Smith got shots because their defenders often left them to guard the other guy? That's the issue. Humphrey thrived on getting shots because his guy was busy trying to help the post. Call me crazy, but I just don't remember a lot of teams doubling Smith or Lofton 25 feet from the basket.

I recall Bradshaw getting left undefended from 3 a lot, because teams were focusing on Lofton.

The '07 SECT loss to LSU stands out. They ran two defenders at Lofton whenever he touched the ball, even 25 feet out, and they ignored Bradshaw.

 

[DaDuRkEr]

Smith and Lofton were such adequate point guards that JP Prince ended up playing the position in the Sweet 16. Any of the 3 would have been a disaster.

I never said it wouldn't be a disaster. My saying that Jajuan was the best equipped talent wise to run the pt, he wasn't cerebral enough to run a team hints toward it not working
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