I-95 Bridge Collapse In Philadelphia

#26
#26
Rasputin_Vol said:
Give credit where credit is due. I can't believe they are actually going to do this. Hell, if they do it in 2 months, much less 2 weeks, I would be impressed. My questions would be how many "regulations" are being ignored and how much did they bribe pay the union bosses...

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How many beers will we chug celebrating the reopening of the bridge once it is complete?
 
#30
#30
LouderVol said:
a couple things.

1. think of a chain. you don't break the strongest link when you break a chain, you break the weakest point. pretty similar to buildings, and probably bridges. It probably wasn't a big structural member failing. I would look at the little pieces holding the big pieces together.
2. most of the "visible damage" you are seeing in the road probably came from the collapse rather than the fire.
3. IMO what likely happened, its what happened down here in Atlanta, is the heat from the fire causes the section to expand, that pushes against the weak points holding it together on either end. those points were also weakened by the fire. It would not take much thermal expansion to create some insane pressures. and there is probably enough expansion from that fire to override whatever built in movement they have. so those weak points at either end, or one end, fail, can't hold the bridge in place anymore, and the thermal expansion eventually pushes it out beyond whatever was physically holding it up, and the section falls. that likely drags down the other end, and explains the crack in the middle with one end giving out first, hitting the ground, the force of the section leaning on that one side found a weak point in the middle, cracked it, and as it gave away again, from the middle, it likely pulled the other end out.
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Same thing happened to the I-75 bridge in Cincy. Took several months on that one too.
 
#34
#34
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#35
#35
VolStrom said:
They didn't repair the bridges, they built 2 retaining walls on the road below and filled it full of dirt and poured concrete on top. Getting the bridges rebuilt will probably take another year or more now.
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I couldn't really tell, but that may just be temporary so they can pour the bridge itself, if you aren't going with precast, you have to support it while it cures.
 
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#36
#36
AM64 said:
Where there's a will, there's a way. But without doubt, there will have to be some payoffs to people who won't be getting their hands dirty for the will to be found. Expect a lot of union labor to be milling around until some premiums get paid; you know there isn't a chance in the world this job would go to a non union contractor - especially in Philadelphia.
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the real money will go to who ever had their job bumped. union or no, they are going to have to buy out, or pay a penalty, to whoever they were working for.

Of course because its the government and unions, they were probably working on some other government project, and they will just be paying themselves.
 
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#37
#37
LouderVol said:
I couldn't really tell, but that may just be temporary so they can pour the bridge itself, if you aren't going with precast, you have to support it while it cures.
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From the pics the repairs look temporary and I’m sure will have load limits. But both lanes are again open in some capacity and they can have traffic moving while affecting the permanent repair. That is an engineering feat I’m and of itself. 12 days.
 
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#39
#39
VolStrom said:
Look at this short video of the bridge being torn down. I've never seen so much rebar in concrete before.

https://youtube.com/shorts/LGmstzEuOT8?feature=share
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Oh yeah. you don't want to be walking across the web of rebar and slip your foot down, you will break every bone in that leg getting caught in all the layers.

they didn't show the ends but I would imagine there are also some big tensioning cables in there too.
 
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#40
#40
VolStrom said:
They didn't repair the bridges, they built 2 retaining walls on the road below and filled it full of dirt and poured concrete on top. Getting the bridges rebuilt will probably take another year or more now.
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Appreciate the clarification
 
#41
#41
LouderVol said:
the real money will go to who ever had their job bumped. union or no, they are going to have to buy out, or pay a penalty, to whoever they were working for.

Of course because its the government and unions, they were probably working on some other government project, and they will just be paying themselves.
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I've always wondered if anybody else thought it was strange that the government applies the Davis-Bacon Act to road construction and then supposedly awards the contract to the lowest bidder. Basically guarantee high labor rates and then pretend to be cost conscious.

The GAO found similar results in 1979, just prior to the change to the 50% rule: ”Our evaluation of the wage determination files and inquiries regarding 73 wage determinations at Labor's headquarters and five of its regions showed that, in many instances, these wage rates were not adequately or accurately determined. About one-half of the area and project determinations we reviewed were not based on surveys [that the Department of] Labor made of wages paid to workers on private projects in the locality where the wage rates issued were required to be paid. Instead, union-negotiated rates were used, on the assumption that those rates prevailed.”
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#42
#42
AM64 said:
I've always wondered if anybody else thought it was strange that the government applies the Davis-Bacon Act to road construction and then supposedly awards the contract to the lowest bidder. Basically guarantee high labor rates and then pretend to be cost conscious.
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Did you see the new I24 winning bid?
It was like 30% cheaper than the other bids? Makes me wonder
 
#43
#43
Orangeburst said:
Did you see the new I24 winning bid?
It was like 30% cheaper than the other bids? Makes me wonder
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No, I haven't paid attention - which part of I-24? I can't tell you how many times I-24 has been reconstructed through Chattanooga, and it always ends up a mess ... almost like the goal is a perpetual construction project rather than a real road. I've gotten to the point when going toward Middle TN of just taking a longer route and avoiding I-24 completely. If I'm going anywhere near the downtown area, I go another route and stay off 24 - just not worth the trouble. They did a reasonably nice job around the weigh station in Coffee Co just outside Manchester, but south of Murfreesboro has been awful for years.
 
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#44
#44
AM64 said:
No, I haven't paid attention - which part of I-24? I can't tell you how many times I-24 has been reconstructed through Chattanooga, and it always ends up a mess ... almost like the goal is a perpetual construction project rather than a real road. I've gotten to the point when going toward Middle TN of just taking a longer route and avoiding I-24 completely. If I'm going anywhere near the downtown area, I go another route and stay off 24 - just not worth the trouble. They did a reasonably nice job around the weigh station in Coffee Co just outside Manchester, but south of Murfreesboro has been awful for years.
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Germantown to Hamilton Place

$161 million low bid awarded for next phase of Chattanooga's I-75/I-24 ‘split’ project | Chattanooga Times Free Press


and then from downtown to GA state line eventually

Widening Of I-24 Around Moccasin Bend To Start Next Year; Project Faces "Unique Design Challenges"
 
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#45
#45
Orangeburst said:
Germantown to Hamilton Place

$161 million low bid awarded for next phase of Chattanooga's I-75/I-24 ‘split’ project | Chattanooga Times Free Press


and then from downtown to GA state line eventually

Widening Of I-24 Around Moccasin Bend To Start Next Year; Project Faces "Unique Design Challenges"
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Thank you. Nice to know some things never change - like I-24 construction in Chattanooga. I really liked this statement because it really sums the big issue.

There's nowhere for additional lanes to go.
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#46
#46
AM64 said:
Thank you. Nice to know some things never change - like I-24 construction in Chattanooga. I really liked this statement because it really sums the big issue.
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Everybody has been complaining about Phase 1 because it is no better than it was
Gonna be years of mess
 
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#47
#47
AM64 said:
Thank you. Nice to know some things never change - like I-24 construction in Chattanooga. I really liked this statement because it really sums the big issue.
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There's nowhere for additional lanes to go.

Dooleyesque
 
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#48
#48
Orangeburst said:
Everybody has been complaining about Phase 1 because it is no better than it was
Gonna be years of mess
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I swear traffic engineers are like Meteorologists. they get to keep their jobs no matter how bad they are at it.

and I have had it explained to me, but I still don't buy that the crossover splits are more efficient. Every traffic engineer I have ever asked swears its more efficient for travel gong to the right to have to be in the left hand lanes, and they have to introduce a series of new bridges to make it work.

The low bid is suspicious, the other 3 bids fall in a 22 million dollar range, approximately 10% of budget, which is a pretty good spread. That's what I would expect from qualified bidders. The winning bid being 42 million below the next raises all types of red flags. That 20% savings will show up very quickly.
 
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#49
#49
LouderVol said:
I swear traffic engineers are like Meteorologists. they get to keep their jobs no matter how bad they are at it.

and I have had it explained to me, but I still don't buy that the crossover splits are more efficient. Every traffic engineer I have ever asked swears its more efficient for travel gong to the right to have to be in the left hand lanes, and they have to introduce a series of new bridges to make it work.

The low bid is suspicious, the other 3 bids fall in a 22 million dollar range, approximately 10% of budget, which is a pretty good spread. That's what I would expect from qualified bidders. The winning bid being 42 million below the next raises all types of red flags. That 20% savings will show up very quickly.
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Are you talking about that abomination of "improvement" where 75N and 24 meet coming up from Georgia?

It went from bad to worse.
 
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