I am impressed.

#26
#26
T-TownVol said:
"Reckless, Outrageous and Unjustified" were the words he used about the bonuses. But hey, you are correct, he did not "force" anybody to do anything.
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He has flat out said he wouldn't sign the bonus tax bill in its current form. And Obama wasn't the only ones saying those things.
 
#27
#27
rjd970 said:
He has flat out said he wouldn't sign the bonus tax bill in its current form. And Obama was the most important one saying those things.
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fyp....."words matter", at least the words coming out of BHO's mouth at any given time, then they do not mean anything when it is a different audience
BHO is the leader of all the other people that you are blaming this on. He is just playing politics.
 
#28
#28
T-TownVol said:
[/B]

fyp....."words matter", at least the words coming out of BHO's mouth at any given time, then they do not mean anything when it is a different audience
BHO is the leader of all the other people that you are blaming this on. He is just playing politics.
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The only "words that matter" are the ones you are deciding matter, you are choosing to ignore the rest or call them "just politics".

Whether you admit it or not, you are the one deciding what words mean something and what words are just politics. That is exactly what's going on here. It's like your homing in on what he said you don't like and saying it actually means something, disregarding everything else. Maybe it makes you feel better because you didn't vote for him, I don't know.

Here's what I think...he thinks that the bonuses are "reckless, outrageous, and unjustified", but he also thinks that taxing said bonuses is unconstitutional and without legal precedent and will not sign the bill unless significant changes are made by the senate.

Read the news for Pete's sake, even the dem senators are taking note of this and putting the brakes on this thing.
 
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#29
#29
rjd970 said:
The only "words that matter" are the ones you are deciding matter, you are choosing to ignore the rest or call them "just politics".

Whether you admit it or not, you are the one deciding what words mean something and what words are just politics. That is exactly what's going on here. It's like your homing in on what he said you don't like and saying it actually means something, disregarding everything else. Maybe it makes you feel better because you didn't vote for him, I don't know.

Here's what I think...he thinks that the bonuses are "reckless, outrageous, and unjustified", but he also thinks that taxing said bonuses is unconstitutional and without legal precedent and will not sign the bill unless significant changes are made by the senate.

Read the news for Pete's sake, even the dem senators are taking note of this and putting the brakes on this thing.
Click to expand...

it has been proven that the administration knoew about these bonuses back on March 3rd.
Why is it that BHO only sayes something about them AFTER they are given?
And by the way, the "just politics" are the words that i am qquoteing form our President's own mouth. He has used them to excuse several things that he was SAID are wrong, but once again did NOTHING to stop them. His treasury secretary comes to mind first.
I have not said a word about him signing the bill. It is 100% fact that he helped to bring it about with his words.
The "read the news" comment is pure ignorance on your part.
 
#30
#30
rjd970 said:
Here's what I think...he thinks that the bonuses are "reckless, outrageous, and unjustified", but he also thinks that taxing said bonuses is unconstitutional and without legal precedent and will not sign the bill unless significant changes are made by the senate.

Read the news for Pete's sake, even the dem senators are taking note of this and putting the brakes on this thing.
Click to expand...

So just what are these significant changes that he wants? You know, since he wants to fix this outrageous behavior. So he does not have a problem with the principle of taxing the bonuses, he is just worried about the bill being unconstitutional?
 
#31
#31
T-TownVol said:
it has been proven that the administration knoew about these bonuses back on March 3rd.
Why is it that BHO only sayes something about them AFTER they are given?
And by the way, the "just politics" are the words that i am qquoteing form our President's own mouth. He has used them to excuse several things that he was SAID are wrong, but once again did NOTHING to stop them. His treasury secretary comes to mind first.
I have not said a word about him signing the bill. It is 100% fact that he helped to bring it about with his words.
The "read the news" comment is pure ignorance on your part.
Click to expand...

First off, I'll bite, prove that the administration knew about the bonuses on March 3rd. And even if they did, why don't you go ahead and suggest what you think they possibly could have done about it.

In fact, if that is the case, I would say he knows that the priniciple of taxing the bonuses is wrong, and his "Reckless, Outrageous and Unjustified" comment was the "politics" (as you like to label what you deam not to matter) part and not what he really thought of the matter. He was simply playing to the masses.

And I seriously doubt Obama was the primary instigator of this whole outrage business in Congress and the American populate. The press broke the story, and the public voiced its outrage. You act like Obama said "everybody be mad about this" and the electorate and Congress blindly jumped on board.

The fact still remains, the bill will be dramatically changed or maybe even go away altogether in the senate because he has said he won't sign the house version.
 
#32
#32
allvol123 said:
So just what are these significant changes that he wants? You know, since he wants to fix this outrageous behavior. So he does not have a problem with the principle of taxing the bonuses, he is just worried about the bill being unconstitutional?
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I would say he has a problem with the principle of the people at a company that is at the center of financial mess taking bonuses that put there yearly income in the top 5% while taking taxpayer money.
 
#33
#33
rjd970 said:
The only "words that matter" are the ones you are deciding matter, you are choosing to ignore the rest or call them "just politics".

Whether you admit it or not, you are the one deciding what words mean something and what words are just politics. That is exactly what's going on here. It's like your homing in on what he said you don't like and saying it actually means something, disregarding everything else. Maybe it makes you feel better because you didn't vote for him, I don't know.

Here's what I think...he thinks that the bonuses are "reckless, outrageous, and unjustified", but he also thinks that taxing said bonuses is unconstitutional and without legal precedent and will not sign the bill unless significant changes are made by the senate.

Read the news for Pete's sake, even the dem senators are taking note of this and putting the brakes on this thing.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously trying to pretend that this isn't huge political swung for Obama. It's purely his issue to prove he's Robin Hood.
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#35
#35
BigPapaVol said:
Are you seriously trying to pretend that this isn't huge political swung for Obama. It's purely his issue to prove he's Robin Hood.
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If he wanted to prove his Robinhood street cred, he would have jumped on board the legislating out of anger that Pelosi, Frank, and Co. grandstanded about.
 
#36
#36
TG has admitted that he knew on March 3rd. The problem that I have with this is that instead of trying to stop the bonuses from being distributed. The administration let the go out and even stated that they were legit.
Now, to pander to the masses, he has come out against them AFTER the fact.
 
#37
#37
rjd970 said:
If he wanted to prove his Robinhood street cred, he would have jumped on board the legislating out of anger that Pelosi, Frank, and Co. grandstanded about.
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Pelosi, Frank and Co do not wipe their butts without checking with the DNC first. Stop hiding BHO behind them. He is the leader of the party, isn't he?
 
#38
#38
rjd970 said:
If he wanted to prove his Robinhood street cred, he would have jumped on board the legislating out of anger that Pelosi, Frank, and Co. grandstanded about.
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No he wouldn't. His hands would get dirty. This way, he can do as he chooses and get people to believe he is uninvolved.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#39
#39
T-TownVol said:
TG has admitted that he knew on March 3rd. The problem that I have with this is that instead of trying to stop the bonuses from being distributed. The administration let the go out and even stated that they were legit.
Now, to pander to the masses, he has come out against them AFTER the fact.
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According to his congressional testimony, TG didn't know the full extent until March 10th...but it doesn't really matter.

I still don't know what you think this administration could have possibly done about it since these contracts were signed last year and leftover from the previous stimulus package. If Obama really believed this outrage bit he would have said it when/if he knew about them.
 
#40
#40
BigPapaVol said:
No he wouldn't. His hands would get dirty. This way, he can do as he chooses and get people to believe he is uninvolved.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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If your theory is wrong, then he actually is genuine. If your theory is right, then it is a shrewd political move.

I'm sure you will spin this as a negative about his inexperience or character in some way though.
 
#41
#41
rjd970 said:
According to his congressional testimony, TG didn't know the full extent until March 10th...but it doesn't really matter.

I still don't know what you think this administration could have possibly done about it since these contracts were signed last year and leftover from the previous stimulus package. If Obama really believed this outrage bit he would have said it when/if he knew about them.
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that is the "political speak" that I am referring to, he knew enough on the 3rd, to have spoken up

so, which is it? you say he knows that words matter, but you are now saying that he did not believe exactly what he said about the outrage "bit"
 
#42
#42
rjd970 said:
If your theory is wrong, then he actually is genuine. If your theory is right, then it is a shrewd political move.

I'm sure you will spin this as a negative about his inexperience or character in some way though.
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What difference does it make how I spin it if your point about reality holds?

It's shrewd to those he is pandering to for sure. Now just reason through that crowd's reason for Obama love.

If you're honest with yourself, you know full well this is garbage bully pulpit politics of blame.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#43
#43
T-TownVol said:
that is the "political speak" that I am referring to, he knew enough on the 3rd, to have spoken up

so, which is it? you say he knows that words matter, but you are now saying that he did not believe exactly what he said about the outrage "bit"
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What do you mean?

Words matter, the public was outraged, so he spoke up. It's the congressional yahoo's trying to do something about it now, creating a tax bill he won't sign.
 
#44
#44
rjd970 said:
What do you mean?

Words matter, the public was outraged, so he spoke up. It's the congressional yahoo's trying to do something about it now, creating a tax bill he won't sign.
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Wish he had shown some of this strength when that stimulus bill fell on his desk.
 
#45
#45
rjd970 said:
What do you mean?

Words matter, the public was outraged, so he spoke up. It's the congressional yahoo's trying to do something about it now, creating a tax bill he won't sign.
Click to expand...

See post # 37 and BPV said it so well above
 
#46
#46
BigPapaVol said:
What difference does it make how I spin it if your point about reality holds?

It's shrewd to those he is pandering to for sure. Now just reason through that crowd's reason for Obama love.

If you're honest with yourself, you know full well this is garbage bully pulpit politics of blame.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Sure it's politics of blame, it still doesn't change the fact that there is very little he could reasonably have done about it, and he knows it.

It's amazing how the blame game and reality coexist, depending on what side of the political spectrum you sit.
 
#47
#47
rjd970 said:
Sure it's politics of blame, it still doesn't change the fact that there is very little he could reasonably have done about it, and he knows it.

It's amazing how the blame game and reality coexist, depending on what side of the political spectrum you sit.
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I'm not saying he could change it, bet he has de facto villified these AIG employees as the Devi and congress has run with that ball. He winning big politically with a large portion of his voter base, but it makes this no less pathetic. He's messing with the livelihood of a very small set or very talented people who are his true hope of righting the ship at AIG.

Hire Mo back, give these people their money and GTFO.
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#48
#48
BigPapaVol said:
I'm not saying he could change it, bet he has de facto villified these AIG employees as the Devi and congress has run with that ball. He winning big politically with a large portion of his voter base, but it makes this no less pathetic. He's messing with the livelihood of a very small set or very talented people who are his true hope of righting the ship at AIG.

Hire Mo back, give these people their money and GTFO.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Are you saying the only ones who can bring this ship up are the ones who sank it? There should be some accountability here.

It seems to me that letting the talent just do their thing doesn't always work out the way we think it will, obviously.
 
#49
#49
rjd970 said:
Are you saying the only ones who can bring this ship up are the ones who sank it? There should be some accountability here.

It seems to me that letting the talent just do their thing doesn't always work out the way we think it will, obviously.
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Those who sank the ship aren't there and those being paid earned money or have to be paid so they do so in the future.

Do you know why AIG has the problems that they have?
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#50
#50
BigPapaVol said:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Those who sank the ship aren't there and those being paid earned money or have to be paid so they do so in the future.

Do you know why AIG has the problems that they have?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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You're right, I am confused. Who exactly did these deferred retention bonuses go to? The ones that worked there last year, or the new talent coming in to clean the mess up?

Are you saying that everybody in the financial products division is completely new, and had nothing to do with the collapse of the company? It's my understanding that the big dollar bonuses went to the executives, including those that oversaw the financial products division.
 
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