I can't afford W, now I am supposed to afford McCain or Obama?

[volsforever27]

I think that the appropriations sub-committee chairs decide how money will be distributed for ear-marks. I understand that during Republican control, the earmarks exploded. That is not to say that Republicans were the only ones earmarking, even under Republican control, the Dems were allowed to earmark. Here's an article from the New York Times that makes me think the situation was actually worse under the Republicans...though it is still not good enough.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/washington/14earmarks.html?_r=1

And that's your first mistake putting a NYT article with a Waxman quote. I don't know the figured, but the NYT leans heavily left, so they will always fault the R's. I'm in no way discounting what the R's have done... that's why they lost in '06, but I just don't trust the Times to be objective.

 

[TennTradition]

But how it was handled is the point, not the types of damage.

So, the Mississippi state/locals governments would have handled the New Orleans situation as well as they handled their coastline situation? I doubt it. New Orleans was obviously unprepared - but I think that most states would have been (which is a shame).

 

[volsforever27]

The types of response necessary are very different in the two instances. I don't think that the comparison holds all that well. The sheer number of people involved makes the two situations less comparable, not to mention the degree of flooding (hard to get supplies and people through flooded streets) vs. wind damage and flood damage with *receded* waters.

Wrong... who was blaming FEMA? They basically folded under pressure, then blasted Bush and Fema for not helping sooner. The damage was great, no doubt about that, however they basically bungled it.

 

[volsforever27]

So, the Mississippi state/locals governments would have handled the New Orleans situation as well as they handled their coastline situation? I doubt it. New Orleans was obviously unprepared - but I think that most states would have been (which is a shame).

So you're telling me everyone would have acted like Nagy and Blanco? I doubt that.

 

[TennTradition]

And that's your first mistake putting a NYT article with a Waxman quote. I don't know the figured, but the NYT leans heavily left, so they will always fault the R's. I'm in no way discounting what the R's have done... that's why they lost in '06, but I just don't trust the Times to be objective.

I've heard this stated in other circles...I think that it is true. The article pretty fairly detailed who the big spenders were, and many were democrats. So, I don't think that there was wool being pulled over the ol' eyes in that respect. Perhaps there is a GAO report on it or something, but finding a non-media source will likely be hard...

 

[TennTradition]

So you're telling me everyone would have acted like Nagy and Blanco? I doubt that.

I never intended to defend New Orlean's response. My one point was that the comparison you made is not a fair one. The types of response and the scale of the response were very different. This does not justify the response by Blanco/Nagy. This does not blame FEMA. It is only an attempt to keep the discussion on the level - which inappropriate comparisons do not do.

 

[KB5252]

It is a big city, hut he stated that you couldn't compare the two, and i pointed out you could in how to deal with an emergency. If you think Mississippi wasn't hit hard as well then talk to some of the people there.

There is a big difference in that in New Orleans you have a large amount of people in a small area which only magnifies any problems. That being said I am not arguing Miss. handled it much better.

 

[volsforever27]

I never intended to defend New Orlean's response. My one point was that the comparison you made is not a fair one. The types of response and the scale of the response were very different. This does not justify the response by Blanco/Nagy. This does not blame FEMA. It is only an attempt to keep the discussion on the level - which inappropriate comparisons do not do.

How is it inappropiate to say Barber did a good job and didn't wait on the federal goverment to act? Blanco did... and because she did the damage was ultimately worse in the long run. Just because the mangnitude of the destruction was greater in New Orleans doesn't mean that you can't draw a comaprison and say this is how you handle a crisis. If it was an earthquake that had hit New Orleans, I believe the comparison still holds water, even if you don't. Incompetance seems to be consitent there.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

A complete overhaul of FEMA; considering their piss poor response to one of the worst natural disasters in American history.

How about holding the politicians responsible who did nothing about the problem for the last 20 years.

 

[TennTradition]

How is it inappropiate to say Barber did a good job and didn't wait on the federal goverment to act? Blanco did... and because she did the damage was ultimately worse in the long run. Just because the mangnitude of the destruction was greater in New Orleans doesn't mean that you can't draw a comaprison and say this is how you handle a crisis. If it was an earthquake that had hit New Orleans, I believe the comparison still holds water, even if you don't. Incompetance seems to be consitent there.

The difference I see is that Mississippi was not overwhelmed by their disaster, and this is why they were not screaming for FEMA. They were able to make it until FEMA was there to help. Because the two situations were so different, I feel that it was easier to become overwhelmed by the New Orleans situation. They shouldn't have...they should have been prepared because something like this has been talked about for some time. But - knowing what emergency preparedness is like to some degree, it is all too typical that the state was unprepared to handle this. It doesn't justify it. I see your point in how each state should have reacted. Each state should have handled it on their own until FEMA got there, which Mississippi did and Louisiana did not. My point is that the magnitude of the problem (population density, flood levels, etc.) were so different that it is unfair to not factor this into how the state responded and how quickly they became overwhelmed (who is to say that Mississippi would not have become as quickly overwhelmed by a similar tragedy as New Orleans and screamed for FEMA like Louisiana did).

 

[volsforever27]

The difference I see is that Mississippi was not overwhelmed by their disaster, and this is why they were not screaming for FEMA. They were able to make it until FEMA was there to help. Because the two situations were so different, I feel that it was easier to become overwhelmed by the New Orleans situation. They shouldn't have...they should have been prepared because something like this has been talked about for some time. But - knowing what emergency preparedness is like to some degree, it is all too typical that the state was unprepared to handle this. It doesn't justify it. I see your point in how each state should have reacted. Each state should have handled it on their own until FEMA got there, which Mississippi did and Louisiana did not. My point is that the magnitude of the problem (population density, flood levels, etc.) were so different that it is unfair to not factor this into how the state responded and how quickly they became overwhelmed (who is to say that Mississippi would not have become as quickly overwhelmed by a similar tragedy as New Orleans and screamed for FEMA like Louisiana did).

I'm going to have to turn this political (this is the right forum and all), but I think it comes down to a mindset. Some believe that the goverment should handle everything, some believe it should be state then federal. If it had been Mississippi instead of New Orleans, I agree the situation would have been more difficult, however I believe Barber would have handled it much better than Blanco, and that's been my point all along. I think he would have done his best until FEMA did arrive... and anyone that has any kind of career in the government knows how long it takes for the goverment to act about anything. I don't see Barber getting on national tv and screaming about FEMA, and crying etc.

 

[MG1968]

you guys are arguing in circles. Louisiana screwed up and it started with funds intended for the levies diverted to pork projects by Mary Landrieu. Ray Nagin is singularly unqualified to be the mayor of a city the size of NO and Kathleen Blanco obviously failed to realize that, as governor, it's ultimately her responsibility to get things done.

All the whining about FEMA's response is justified only in the context of the content of their response. Chiefly the debit cards issued to hurricane survivors and the massive corruption involving the FEMA trailers that continues to this day.

 

[volsforever27]

you guys are arguing in circles. Louisiana screwed up and it started with funds intended for the levies diverted to pork projects by Mary Landrieu. Ray Nagin is singularly unqualified to be the mayor of a city the size of NO and Kathleen Blanco obviously failed to realize that, as governor, it's ultimately her responsibility to get things done.

All the whining about FEMA's response is justified only in the context of the content of their response. Chiefly the debit cards issued to hurricane survivors and the massive corruption involving the FEMA trailers that continues to this day.

Wow, thanks for coming in and straightening us out. :hi:

 

[TennTradition]

I'm going to have to turn this political (this is the right forum and all), but I think it comes down to a mindset. Some believe that the goverment should handle everything, some believe it should be state then federal. If it had been Mississippi instead of New Orleans, I agree the situation would have been more difficult, however I believe Barber would have handled it much better than Blanco, and that's been my point all along. I think he would have done his best until FEMA did arrive... and anyone that has any kind of career in the government knows how long it takes for the goverment to act about anything. I don't see Barber getting on national tv and screaming about FEMA, and crying etc.

Fair enough...my problem wasn't with the conclusion you were drawing...the situation could certainly have been handled better. Barber may have handled it better (but I don't think that how he handled his situation is necessarily how he would have handled a disaster of even greater magnitude...which was my point about the comparison). When you put it the way you did here, "I think he would have done his best until FEMA did arrive" ... then that's a fair opinion (as I see it).

 

[volsforever27]

Fair enough...my problem wasn't with the conclusion you were drawing...the situation could certainly have been handled better. Barber may have handled it better (but I don't think that how he handled his situation is necessarily how he would have handled a disaster of even greater magnitude...which was my point about the comparison). When you put it the way you did here, "I think he would have done his best until FEMA did arrive" ... then that's a fair opinion (as I see it).

Thanks, now I can breathe easier.

 

[TennTradition]

Thanks, now I can breathe easier.

No, really...I hope you can. I try to live my days inflating my self-importance and subjecting those that surround me to my vision of fairness and justice. I don't so much suggest it as I explain it...and look for it to be followed. I do so with a fairly heavy hand..so it doesn't surprise me that you would breath easier now that I have sanctioned your argument and stamped it with my fairness stamp.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Silly Bolsheviks!

 

[volsforever27]

No, really...I hope you can. I try to live my days inflating my self-importance and subjecting those that surround me to my vision of fairness and justice. I don't so much suggest it as I explain it...and look for it to be followed. I do so with a fairly heavy hand..so it doesn't surprise me that you would breath easier now that I have sanctioned your argument and stamped it with my fairness stamp.

Are you a politician? Wow, didn't know that.

 

[TennTradition]

Are you a politician? Wow, didn't know that.

...in training...