I just don't understand this

[orangestorm]

Fake but accurate.
None of the following is one bit fake.

 

[J-P]

Hold on there lib - evil is reserved for the rich; was Milosevic rich enough to be truly evil or was he only mildly evil due to lack of sufficient wealth that came at the expense of others? Also there are mitigating circumstances that he is from another culture which we must seek to understand; not condemn.

Despite massive accumulation of personal riches, one receives instant absolution if one's last name is Soros, the benevolent funder of innumerable organizations intended to undermine the evil American empire or one is a member of the progressive elite that alone is fit to rule the proletariat following the destruction and reconstruction of said evil empire. eace2:

 

[gsvol]

It is not a defense to point out something obvious. Since you pride yourself as some kind of intelligent human being, I am sure you can understand that. There is plenty of criticism of Obama. Some of it has merit, some does not. Crap like that video is moronic, as is anyone who buys it.

You could have just said no.

What is wrong with the following statement?

"I have always been a Christian."
Barack Hussein Obama

It must be that liberal mental disorder I have that also causes me to hate apartheid and realize that Milosevic was evil.

Did you know that Nelson Mandela was a convicted terrorist, supported by the USSR and thought Fidel Castro was a great leader?

Did you know the ANC in power killed more black Africans in six years than the apartheid government had in forty.

What do you think of the current genocide campaign against the Boer Africaners, or would you just rather remain silent on that??

If Milosevic was evil what of Trujman, Izetbegovic and Thraci who committed far worse crimes but were never prosecuted?

 

[knucklehead_vol]

That's a good story, but most likely it did not happen though.
snopes.com: Pershing and Pigs

Trying them in is the right thing to do, it is a lot easier to go for the death penalty in a civilian court than a military court. The last person the military executed was back in the 60s.

Wow, you do research...impressive. Your curious little wee mind should have looked a little closer though.

It was NOT Pershing who did these acts, but Colonel Rodgers. Col Rodgers was also the Gov of Jolo. This is infact true, being there was a hearing about such acts performed by Col Rodgers and others. It is very sad that Pershings reputation is being dragged through the dirt because someone does not know how to read and now a widespread email has been put out defaming his character....I read this email since 2002, and it is still going around. The funny thing is, it was in fact Pershing who FORBID and PROHIBITED his men to do such acts...and he mentioned he would press charges against any of his men who was found committing such acts. Pershing didnt become well respected and made a Datu throughout the southern islands for nothing. If any of you read the life of Pershing, you would understand his means and purpose on dealing with people...and you would later understand he would never do such acts. In his reports he mentions his respect for these Moros warriors...he actually admired them. Cant believe people would associate such atrocities with one of Americas greatest heroes.



In 1911, as attempts were made to disarm the Mohammedans, cotta warfare began to flame anew and the juramentados redoubled their efforts to get to close grips with the American soldiers. Jolo, the Moro capital, in American hands, was almost under a state of siege. It was under constant attack on the part of individual fanatics. One Moro penetrated the city walls through a drain and killed seven soldiers in the streets of Jolo before he was dropped by volley fire of the troops.

For trading purposes, 100 Moros were allowed within the city wall at one time. They were disarmed and searched at the gates by squads of soldiers, and all guard posts mounted four sentries. With all of these precautions, juramentados succeeded in running their crazed course at dreadful, frequent intervals.

It was Colonel Alexander Rodgers of the 6th Cavalry who accomplished by taking advantage of religious prejudice what the bayonets and Krags had been unable to accomplish. Rodgers inaugurated a system of burying all dead juramentados in a common grave with the carcasses of slaughtered pigs. The Mohammedan religion forbids contact with pork; and this relatively simple device resulted in the withdrawal of juramentados to sections not containing a Rodgers. Other officers took up the principle, adding new refinements to make it additionally unattractive to the Moros. In some sections the Moro juramentado was beheaded after death and the head sewn inside the carcass of a pig. And so the rite of running juramentado, at least semi-religious in character, ceased to be in Sulu. The last cases of this religious mania occurred in the early decades of the century. The juramentados were replaced by the amucks. .. who were simply homicidal maniacs with no religious significance attaching to their acts.


Swish of the Kris
Chap 23
Juramentados and Piracy

 

[knucklehead_vol]

The title of that video is ridiculous. He was introducing them, not trying to shake their hands.

Its true...the effed him. Your theory is like the Gator fans saying Utah was showing them respect by doin the gater chomp when they beat Bama.

 

[knucklehead_vol]

The title of that video is ridiculous. He was introducing them, not trying to shake their hands.

Actually your right, after the first few, he did stop 'attempting' to shake theirs hands. Why didn't the media pick up on this meeting and make a big deal of the snubbed handshake, cause it really happened.

 

[gsvol]

As for the original topic, military tribunals sentencing non-military personnel to death would make me a bit nervous.

Why??

Do you have a problem with non-military personel using AK-47s, rocket propelled grenades, car bombs and ieds?

 

[gsvol]

Have you read Alinski's 'rules for radicals?'

Community organizer is nothing other than a communist agitator/ agen procateur.

 

[orangestorm]

Wow, you do research...impressive. Your curious little wee mind should have looked a little closer though.

It was NOT Pershing who did these acts, but Colonel Rodgers. Col Rodgers was also the Gov of Jolo. This is infact true, being there was a hearing about such acts performed by Col Rodgers and others. It is very sad that Pershings reputation is being dragged through the dirt because someone does not know how to read and now a widespread email has been put out defaming his character....I read this email since 2002, and it is still going around. The funny thing is, it was in fact Pershing who FORBID and PROHIBITED his men to do such acts...and he mentioned he would press charges against any of his men who was found committing such acts. Pershing didnt become well respected and made a Datu throughout the southern islands for nothing. If any of you read the life of Pershing, you would understand his means and purpose on dealing with people...and you would later understand he would never do such acts. In his reports he mentions his respect for these Moros warriors...he actually admired them. Cant believe people would associate such atrocities with one of Americas greatest heroes.



In 1911, as attempts were made to disarm the Mohammedans, cotta warfare began to flame anew and the juramentados redoubled their efforts to get to close grips with the American soldiers. Jolo, the Moro capital, in American hands, was almost under a state of siege. It was under constant attack on the part of individual fanatics. One Moro penetrated the city walls through a drain and killed seven soldiers in the streets of Jolo before he was dropped by volley fire of the troops.

For trading purposes, 100 Moros were allowed within the city wall at one time. They were disarmed and searched at the gates by squads of soldiers, and all guard posts mounted four sentries. With all of these precautions, juramentados succeeded in running their crazed course at dreadful, frequent intervals.

It was Colonel Alexander Rodgers of the 6th Cavalry who accomplished by taking advantage of religious prejudice what the bayonets and Krags had been unable to accomplish. Rodgers inaugurated a system of burying all dead juramentados in a common grave with the carcasses of slaughtered pigs. The Mohammedan religion forbids contact with pork; and this relatively simple device resulted in the withdrawal of juramentados to sections not containing a Rodgers. Other officers took up the principle, adding new refinements to make it additionally unattractive to the Moros. In some sections the Moro juramentado was beheaded after death and the head sewn inside the carcass of a pig. And so the rite of running juramentado, at least semi-religious in character, ceased to be in Sulu. The last cases of this religious mania occurred in the early decades of the century. The juramentados were replaced by the amucks. .. who were simply homicidal maniacs with no religious significance attaching to their acts.


Swish of the Kris
Chap 23
Juramentados and Piracy

I am sure stuff like that happened, it just did not sound like something the Pershing would have done. There has been a long history of dealing with Muslim bodies in this fashion. During the Great Indian Mutiny the British would attack them with bullets that had been packed in pig fat (this was also one of the causes of the rebellion) and blow them up by tying them in front of cannons greased with pig fat.

 

[gsvol]

Hold on there lib - evil is reserved for the rich; was Milosevic rich enough to be truly evil or was he only mildly evil due to lack of sufficient wealth that came at the expense of others? Also there are mitigating circumstances that he is from another culture which we must seek to understand; not condemn.

Without Clinton's pro islamo/fascist policy in Yugoslavia, Milosovic would never have been elected president.

He won that election because he promised the people he would do something to curb islamo fascist terrorism and he did just that.

These Serbs weren't going on summer vacation, they were fleeing for their lives.

Adolph Hitler and Bubba Clinton share a footnote in history, they both bombed Belgrad by surprise on Palm Sunday morning, something to really be proud of.

 

[emainvol]

Actually your right, after the first few, he did stop 'attempting' to shake theirs hands. Why didn't the media pick up on this meeting and make a big deal of the snubbed handshake, cause it really happened.

I direct you back to the last line of my response to gs.

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why Obama would be shaking the hands of his own delegation when introducing them to the Russian President?

 

[emainvol]

gs, it doesn't matter if the ANC killed 100 times more than the apartheid government, apartheid was still an atrocity.

The same stands for the rest of your comparisons. If the accusations levied against Izetbegovic were indeed true, he is every bit as evil as Milosovic and Mladic.

Also, you might find this interesting because I remember this discussion popping up a while back, but the family of Mladic requested that he be declared dead about a month ago. He has been missing for years.

 

[gsvol]

gs, it doesn't matter if the ANC killed 100 times more than the apartheid government, apartheid was still an atrocity.

I'm sure it mattered to those murdered and their families much more than it matters to you.

Solutions to problems should be better than the problem, can we agree on that??

Likewise new regimes should be better than old regimes, can we not agree on that, specifically when adressing humitarian issues should not the new regime be more humanitarian than the preceding regime??

For the record South Africa now has a president that is ten times more racist than any in it's entire history.

The same stands for the rest of your comparisons. If the accusations levied against Izetbegovic were indeed true, he is every bit as evil as Milosovic and Mladic.

What did Milosovic do or order to be done that made him evil?? Specifically.

Those accusations about Izetbegovic are true and then some and are well documented as are those of Tudjman and Thraci.

Carla Del Ponte's new book and organ-harvesting allegations continue to spark controversy - swissinfo

The world court is one of the most corrupt organizations on the face of the Earth.

How many Serbs were convicted?

How many died in some manner before a trial began or while being incarcerated before the court reached a verdict? How many witnesses could they not call.

How serious was Holder about brining Bush before the World court?

How many on the other side were even brought to trial?

If those facts an others don't convince you something is wrong then probably nothing ever will.

The Times sensationalized 'ethnic cleansing', in the end the only people 'ethnically cleansed' were (Christian) Serbians from Krajina (now part of an expanded Croatia) Bosnia (Bosnians are basically Serbians converted by the sword of islam during the occupation of the Ottoman Turks) and Kosovo, (the traditional heartland of Serbia but now in the high 90 percent Albanians.)

Speaking of my faulty comparisons, how do you feel about what has happened to the Christian population of Lebanon over the past fifty years?? (the country, not the town just up 840 from where you live.)

Also, you might find this interesting because I remember this discussion popping up a while back, but the family of Mladic requested that he be declared dead about a month ago. He has been missing for years.

Well I hope they never get their hands on him.

How do you feel about Idi Amin and Mengistu Haile Mariam the "Red Terror" (among many marxist muslims who escaped justice)??

What seems to eternally escape your scrutiny is that just because the media and political correctness cover for some and demonize others, doesn't mean that you are getting the whole story.

Ronald Reagan said a mouthful when he said; "It's not that liberals don't know much, it's that so much of what they know just isn't true."

 

[tvolsfan]

I'm sure it mattered to those murdered and their families much more than it matters to you.

Apartheid was awful, and South Africa is better off without it. Please tell me you don't disagree with this.

 

[tvolsfan]

I'm kind of wishing I never started this thread.

 

[gsvol]

Apartheid was awful, and South Africa is better off without it. Please tell me you don't disagree with this.

Apartheid was awful but unfortunately South Africa isn't better off without it because the communists have used the opportunity to stage a coup.

The point is it wasn't as awful as what South Africa has now, and I refuse to lionize or even praise Mandela who was nothing more than a marxist terrorist.

One needs to know a bit of South african history and a real knowledge of current events to understand my statement.

It is easy to accept shallow, symplistic explanations without further study.

Do you agree with the marxist South African government and their allies, particulary Hamas, that Israel should be accused of apartheid??

I would be willing to discuss this in another thread if you would start that thread, if I start it then it will most likely be immediately asigned to the compendium thread where there will be no realistc discussion.

I'm kind of wishing I never started this thread.

It wasn't my intention to hijack your thread, here is an attempt to get it back on track.

Last night I listened to an interview with Andrew (Andy) C. McCarthy on the Fred Thompson show.

Here is Andy in an interview about his recent book; "The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America."

McCarthy, who is very well respected in legal circles had some very revealing things to say about Holder's ever evolving position on trials for terrorists.

Here are some of his points that I can remember;

1. Holder; A death penalty is easier to get in a civilian court.

Not true, in the 16 years we have been the brunt of islamic terrorist attacts the death penalty has been asked for in only three cases in civilian courts, none received the death penalty.

2. Holder's current position has talking points that just simply are not true.

First off, trials of terrorists aren't under the rules of the UCMJ, which is for our own service members, it falls under the Military Commisssion Act which was passed by congress.

McCarthy went on in great detail to how that works and how just it was, both to the court and to the one who is charged. Claims that if a terrorist pleads guilty then you can't give him the death penalty are patently false.

3. Holder has been using all sorts of delay tactics for tweny months now since the main culprit and four of his cohorts wanted to plead guilty, accept the death penalty and die as martyrs.

Obama and Holder stopped those precedings and have been bouncing back and forth all over the place now for nearly two years and this only aids al Qaeda and affiliated muslim terrorist groups who tell their followers that America has the will to do nothing and that victory is near, in other words pour it on, this administration won't fight back.

Baby sitting today and don't have much time for research but later on I plan to go in to more detail on just how Holder is flat out lying to the American people on the legalities of this situation.

 

[tvolsfan]

Apartheid was awful but unfortunately South Africa isn't better off without it

I'd disagree. South Africa may have problems, but the answer is never in oppressing 90% of the population.

 

[gsvol]

I'd disagree. South Africa may have problems, but the answer is never in oppressing 90% of the population.

If you want to start a thread on apartheid South Africa vis-a-vis post apartheid South Africa, I will be glad to discuss it with you til the cows come home. We'll expand it to all of souther Africa including Zimbabwe, Angola and other despotic countries where violence by those in power is the rule of law.

South Africa today is far more violent than either Iraq or Afghanistan, even though they have wars going on there.

Welcome to the “Rainbow Nation,” the rape and murder capital of the world.

A short exerpt:

It is hard to say what the real murder rate in South Africa is. The ANC hides a lot of the crime. Police departments barely investigate much of the crime and keep poor records. However, international watchdog groups widely believe that South Africa is the most violent in the world.

Rape is a recreational activity in South Africa. The current president, Jacob Zuma was put on trial for rape a year before becoming president. A mob led by the ANC Youth League and the South African Communist Party Youth League massed outside the courthouse. They threatened to publicly lynch the panel of three judges. The judges released Zuma and a Dutch charity smuggled the female victim out of the country to save her life from the mobs. A year later Zuma was elected president of the country.

The founding fathers of America warned us never let mob rule become the law of the land, we are seeing increasing signs of that here, we all should be a bit more observant.

-----------------------------------------------

However;

If you want an answer to the original question of this thread, here it is:

Eric Holder is lying through his teeth to the American people.

Eric Holder is chief among the many Obama Justice Department lawyers who, during the Bush years, donated their services as private attorneys for the benefit of al-Qaeda terrorists.
-----------------------------

Nothing has changed. As the Obama administration’s attorney general, Holder is still gratuitously taking positions that help the likes of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
-------------------------------

The attorney general’s latest claims are grossly misleading. First, he asserts that guilty pleas are permitted in civilian capital cases — as if to imply that only in military courts must we have burdensome trials in which juries must approve the death penalty.
--------------------------------

Even if a defendant admits guilt, the issue of punishment must still be tried to the jury. Holder conveniently elides mention not only of this fact but of the history of capital punishment in civilian international-terrorism cases. In the 16 years since the federal death penalty was restored in 1994 — 16 years throughout which the United States has been ravaged by jihadist terror — the Justice Department has approved capital charges for exactly three defendants: Moussaoui and two of the 1998 U.S. embassy bombers. In each case, civilian juries rejected the death penalty. If Holder is saying there’s a better chance these savages will be executed if they are tried in the civilian system (and that is precisely what he’s implying), there is nothing to support that claim.
------------------------------------

Second, the claim Holder floats that guilty pleas may not be permissible in capital military-commission cases is meritless.
------------------------------------

Nice try. Military commissions are not courts martial, even though it has been a project of the Left — when it is not trying to endow our terrorist enemies with all the rights of American civilians — to vest them with the same legal protections our law gives to American soldiers. Commissions, moreover, do not take place pursuant to the “model” of military law, the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Instead, they are governed by a special statute, the Military Commissions Act (MCA).
----------------------------------


Furthermore, Holder is now the attorney general. He is no longer at liberty to freelance for terrorists — his client is the United States, which is at war with terrorists pursuant to a congressional authorization approved with overwhelming bipartisan support. His client is not the foreign terrorists: KSM already has plenty of lawyers. Holder’s client is the American public (i.e., the people KSM wants to kill). Thus, while Holder may not like military commissions, he is obliged to make them work, just as any attorney general who disagrees, as a private citizen, with the policy behind a given law is duty-bound to resist undermining that law in his official capacity.
---------------------------------

When critics contended that Americans had a right to know whether lawyers who chose to donate their services to al-Qaeda were now in charge of counterterrorism policy, Holder wailed that the patriotism of Justice Department lawyers was being attacked.
--------------------------------------

In taking up Padilla’s cause, Holder was not acting out of obligation. He was acting out of passion, out of ideology. More forthright then than he is now, Holder conceded that using the civilian-justice system would limit the nation’s ability to conduct interrogations, to obtain timely intelligence, and to detain dangerous terrorists. Yet, he argued, these costs were a price worth paying to forestall what he saw as the real danger to America: not jihadist terror but unchecked presidential and military power over the prosecution of war.
------------------------------

The attorney general’s blind passion for his ideology has not changed. Mr. Holder would have us believe that lawyers are super-scrupled altruists who shed all their private biases the minute they assume public office — the minute they have, at last, the raw power to enforce those biases. But the truth is far from that. Schooled to regard the law as a tool for achieving “social justice” (which is to say, a tool for enforcing their biases) lawyers may be the least altruistic officials of all.

Why did Eric Holder intercede with Clinton and obtain presidential pardons for several convicted terrorists who had not even applied for clemency??