I see parallels in the Heupel and Vitello program trajectories

[Orange.]

Vitello came into Knoxville with no head coaching experience and took the “Vandy of football” and made them National Champions.

In year 7. That was one of Nighthawk’s points. To compare them by year, 1-4, and now the first half of 5 (with Heup’s year 5 coming up).

 

[vavolfan6]

I hate to say it, becuase its the elephant in the room, but Vitello's approach has more long term sustainability. Heupel on the other hand had a very effective, but gimmick style offense. Now in year 4, Teams are better prepared to stop it. Will Heupel be able to adjust? If so, the trajectory in line with Vitello could continue. But we are at a crossroads right now. I'm not sure Vitello went through that.

 

[Orange.]

I hate to say it, becuase its the elephant in the room, but Vitello's approach has more long term sustainability. Heupel on the other hand had a very effective, but gimmick style offense. Now in year 4, Teams are better prepared to stop it. Will Heupel be able to adjust? If so, the trajectory in line with Vitello could continue. But we are at a crossroads right now. I'm not sure Vitello went through that.

Complete and absolute FAIL at reading comprehension.

You look like a back-stabbing chump who is twisting what OP said as an excuse to take a cheap shot at Heupel. Below is the text that you responded to so ignorantly:

....Both coaches overachieved a with slightly over .500 seasons in year one with less than SEC-level talent, but winning over the players and establishing culture. Both made a breakthrough in Year 2. Heupel's was actually a bigger breakthrough, beating Bama, going 11-2, and making a NY6 bowl. But TV made it to Hoover and went to a regional for the first time in forever and won 40+ games. That was a big deal. Years 3 were kind of non-comparable, with Heupel going 9-4 in a slight step back after losing his top offensive talents, and COVID cancelling the baseball season.

Year 4 is when both really broke through...Heupel beat Bama again, won 10 games and made Tennessee's 1st CFP appearance. The disappointment was in getting there and getting blown out by the eventual NC at their place. The AP ranked Tennessee 9th in its final poll. TV, in Year 4, took the program to Omaha. A huge breakthrough, as well. However, once they got to Omaha (sort of the equivalent of making the CFP), they laid an egg, going 0-2 against Virginia and Texas in 2 games that were never really competitive. Baseball America ranked UT 8th in its final poll.

In Year 5, TV produced his best team up to that point, the 2022 team, which set all kinds of records, but was upset in the Supers. So while it was actually better than the 2021 team, it didn't go as far in the postseason. We will see what Heupel's 5th team looks like....

 

[Orange.]

Now let's see what @vavolfan6 actually said about Vitello during Vitello's first 4 years.

Vitello Year 1:

This is why baseball is so difficult for me to follow..one niight you beat a team 10-1, the next night you lose 21-2..?? Thats a 28 point difference! Any night, anything could happen and one game means nothing..

Vitello Year 2: Not a word.

Vitello Year 3: Not a word.

Vitello Year 4:

I don't watch baseball, but I'm assuming the midweek game is an opportunity to get all the young and inexperienced guys an opportunity to play, right? right?!?!

This is a Super Regional for good sakes...warn the coach [do you not know Vitello's name?] that his players need to tone UT down or cut out the language...in any other sport it's a penalty, etc....but to throw someone out such a big game is a joke..

losing to a bunch of preeteen boys who can't grow a mustache

gotta give credit to Link Jarrett....he took a vastly inferior and talent depleted team and beat us in our home stadium in a 3 game series. Any other coach couldn't do this with such a crappy roster of preteen boys

Remember guys.....we don't like baseball....baseball sucks....(Its only the sports we don't care about that succeed)

 

[Godfatha]

Football has to recruit better to make the comparison

 

[volbound1700]

If someone argues that our 2024 team was better than our 2022 team simply because 2024 made the playoffs, then that must mean 2024 SMU is better than our 2022 team.

Your logic makes 0 sense. 2024 SMU was a lower seed than 2024 Tennessee.

 

[volbound1700]

Football has to recruit better to make the comparison

Football has more competition though.

Not a fair comparison. 1 of them is a sport that barely generates money while the other is, by far, the most profitable sport. Schools, across the board, invest a lot more in Football than Baseball.

 

[NighthawkVol]

Now let's see what @vavolfan6 actually said about Vitello during Vitello's first 4 years.

Vitello Year 1:


Vitello Year 2: Not a word.

Vitello Year 3: Not a word.

Vitello Year 4:

Damn. You got receipts.

 

[NighthawkVol]

Football has to recruit better to make the comparison

Again, that’s not the comparison. The comparison is trajectory. Y'all are doing all sorts of unnecessary mental gymnastics in order to force your negativity into the conversation. Not that I should be surprised.

It’s not as hard as you’re making it.

 

[volbound1700]

You said “more successful.”
Yes this years SMU team was on paper more successful than the 2022 TN Vols team.

Not really because they finished 10 or 11th while 2022 Tennessee finished 6th. Since you didn't have a 12-team playoff, you compare straight up AP rankings between the two. 2022 Tennessee would have been in a 12-team playoff.

That being said, the 2022 Tennessee loss to South Carolina was worse than any loss by 2024 Tennessee or SMU. Defense didn't have a pair that day. It was one of the worse defense performances that I have ever seen, not just in Tennessee football, but all of football. There basically wasn't a functional defense on the field.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

Your logic makes 0 sense. 2024 SMU was a lower seed than 2024 Tennessee.

There are people who have made the claim that the 2024 Tennessee team was better than the 2022 Tennessee team was because the 2024 team made the playoff, while the 2022 team missed it. My argument is that this is a dumb position to take, because the 2024 team only made it because there were 12 teams, as opposed to the 2022 team needing to be a top 4 team to make it. Further, if someone is going to argue that the 2024 team was better than the 2022 team based solely on making the playoff, then those same people will have to say that 2024 SMU was also better than 2022 Tennessee, and I don’t think those people would ever make that claim.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

Again, that’s not the comparison. The comparison is trajectory. Y'all are doing all sorts of unnecessary mental gymnastics in order to force your negativity into the conversation. Not that I should be surprised.

It’s not as hard as you’re making it.

But the trajectory isn’t the same. The baseball team’s trajectory was straight up for the first 5 years (but even in year 6 that team achieved some things no Vitello team before it had). Heupel’s trajectory went up for 2 years, then down in year 3, then back up in year 4 but not as high as it was in year 2.

If you had to force a clunky comparison, you could compare the trajectory perhaps to Fulmer’s first 4 years if you count 92 as his first year. Promising first year, really strong second year with a Heisman contender at QB, take a step back in year 3 after replacing that great QB, then rebound with a highly touted QB in his second year on campus. Difference being the 1995 team beats the brakes off the 2024 team, but the trajectory is similar.

 

[volbound1700]

There are people who have made the claim that the 2024 Tennessee team was better than the 2022 Tennessee team was because the 2024 team made the playoff, while the 2022 team missed it. My argument is that this is a dumb position to take, because the 2024 team only made it because there were 12 teams, as opposed to the 2022 team needing to be a top 4 team to make it. Further, if someone is going to argue that the 2024 team was better than the 2022 team based solely on making the playoff, then those same people will have to say that 2024 SMU was also better than 2022 Tennessee, and I don’t think those people would ever make that claim.

2022 Tennessee definitely had bigger wins (Alabama and Clemson). They also beat a decent Pittsburgh and LSU teams. However, 2022 Tennessee had a "no show" defense at times, notably against South Carolina. If 2022 Tennessee played 2024 Tennessee, they would probably win but it would depend on the situation. For example, if 2022 Tennessee played like they did against South Carolina, they would get beat by 2024 Tennessee.

I go off final AP Ranking. 2022 Tennessee finished 6th while 2024 Tennessee finished 9th.

 

[Rocky Top T]

I like Heupel, I love Tony V. I love Kim Caldwell, she is All business! I've always liked Barnes. Go Vols

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

2022 Tennessee definitely had bigger wins (Alabama and Clemson). They also beat a decent Pittsburgh and LSU teams. However, 2022 Tennessee had a "no show" defense at times, notably against South Carolina. If 2022 Tennessee played 2024 Tennessee, they would probably win but it would depend on the situation. For example, if 2022 Tennessee played like they did against South Carolina, they would get beat by 2024 Tennessee.

I go off final AP Ranking. 2022 Tennessee finished 6th while 2024 Tennessee finished 9th.

2024 had a no show offense as often or more than the 2022 team’s defense no showed. The South Carolina game was arguably the worst single night of football in the program’s history considering what was lost (playoff berth, potential Heisman, the opportunity for Hooker to go out on his own terms, the honeymoon period for Heupel), the caliber of opponent, and the margin of victory. But there is simply no way that the 2024 offense could score like that on them.

 

[Godfatha]

Again, that’s not the comparison. The comparison is trajectory. Y'all are doing all sorts of unnecessary mental gymnastics in order to force your negativity into the conversation. Not that I should be surprised.

It’s not as hard as you’re making it.

Recruiting is a huge part of trajectory. It's not being negative, its a fact that we need to recruit better.

 

[vavolfan6]

Complete and absolute FAIL at reading comprehension.

You look like a back-stabbing chump who is twisting what OP said as an excuse to take a cheap shot at Heupel. Below is the text that you responded to so ignorantly:

I read the original post and understood everything perfectly. My overarching point is that while the trajectories of both coaches are similar up to this point, the sentiment after year 4 is not. That is not to take anything away from whar Heupel has accomplished, but to say that we are at a huge inflection point.

There are major concerns about the offense. It has progressively been less and less effective since 2022. Defenses did a much better job at being prepared for the tempo and limiting the downfield and middle of the field passing game. We were still a decent offense, but inside conference play we trended down. There is no doubt about it.

Now it may be the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about, but obviously some of our offensive players felt the need to bring up their concerns to the coaching staff. Their production isn't what they imagined coming in. They were recruited off of the success of that 2022 offense, but the one they are running is no where near as effective.

So what did I misunderstand or fail to comprehend?

 

[vavolfan6]

Now let's see what @vavolfan6 actually said about Vitello during Vitello's first 4 years.

Vitello Year 1:


Vitello Year 2: Not a word.

Vitello Year 3: Not a word.

Vitello Year 4:

I don't understand what the point of bringing up old posts taken out of context from the baseball forum. I admit to not knowing much about baseball. I'm a UT fan afterall that supports the university and gravitated to the success of Vitello. Most of the quotes you bring up were not me criticizing Vitello. It was me criticizing the umpire in one, and begrudgingly complimenting Link Jarrett and Notre Dame in the other 3. The last post was supposed to be a satire joke.