I think I'll take my orange koolaid with a dose of reality

[Adam Sandler]

Can we stop kidding ourselves here? We know a lot of things go on behind the scenes but at the end of the day it's about dollar signs. Whether it be proven evidence you can get to the nfl, a bag of cash, a Dodge Charger, or a mix of all of them, you don't get good prospects without showing them the dollar signs.

And recruiting, while dependent on the fickle and easily impressionable minds of teenagers, is not so complex. No matter how dumb the kid is they will connect dots and look at what is shown to them on the field. Hype only works until it doesn't come to fruition. These recruits could care less if you had "bad luck" and half your team got injured. Call it luck or not, but proven greatness doesn't let bad luck turn a playoff contender into a "second place in the state" and praying for a bowl win to say "at least we didn't do worse than last year" team.

So stop taking the hose from someone else's hand, shoving it down your own throat, and chugging orange koolaid like it's straight from the fountain of youth. If you see a bunch of suspect offers going out, we missed on the prospect that really mattered. Cam Akers was gone the second Timothy Jordan and Jonathan Lovett got offers. Can probably say goodbye to etienne and Felix too. Lamont wade was gone the second Shamburgers commit was accepted, and the only way he is gone is if they can pay one of these other recruits to come here. News flash, corker picked Kentucky over us. Chew on that for a few more seconds than I'm sure you have already, and then when you hope we get ameer speed, Chris Henderson, or whoever else youre wishing for, chew on that again. Labryan Ray was gone the second they took a miss st commits pledge and started pursuing lower tier guys from South Carolina and wherever else. I'm still hoping we drop this Jacques jones kid, but the fact that we haven't probably means we won't be able to upgrade to sec contender talent there either.

Let's call this class what it is. A disappointment. You can't rely on trey smith to be a future all sec. Nor could you with drew Richmond. Depth is about having winning sec talent across the board, not just bodies. Missing out on guys like tee Higgins, deangelo Gibbs, and even guys who didn't have connections but seemed to be undeniably ours to lose as long as we didn't sh¡t the bed against the south Carolinas and vandys of the world, is unacceptable. You may call me a negavol or tell me I'm crying "the sky is falling" (which it's not but just might if we don't pull a rabbit out of a hat and make it to the sec champ next year or improve to 10-3 or better), but at least I'm not wasting precious hours of my life thinking about what could be rather than focusing on what is, and not naive enough to be comparing mild success in the currently lesser division of the sec to that of a championship season of 98, only to see it crumble and crush dreams.

For the record, I like butch. I like what he's done with our marketing which has clearly worked on many of the fans and recruits to an extent. And even though I'm not crazy about his offense, i can deal with it. And i like that his team plays inspired and resilient football, most of the time. And i like that he's made connections with former players and donors that need to be involved. What i can't deal with is firing your s and c coach a month before fall camp and seeing the dominos (players) fall all season long. Or letting players like Hurd or Williams fade and leave the team because youre not can't, but just aren't utilizing their skills. Or not focusing on recruiting depth and true talent (size, speed, natural ability) in the trenches where this league is won. Or giving scholarships to projects that don't deserve to be on this team if we're expected to win. I truly hope he gets his sh¡t together and acts like a fighter with their back against the wall (aka on the hot seat). Because if he doesn't and we dont meet expectations this next year, he will be. And some people will have hard decisions to make about him because it's about the program which is bigger than "he could still maybe be our guy." Don't even get me started on the taste that will be left in my mouth we lose to Nebraska and go 8-5, call it salty to say the least. See y'all my orange wearing, rocky top yelling Bretherin in Nashville. Rant over.

 

[fade route]

There is some truth in your post but trust me, we don't need to start showing the $$$ to recruits to keep up with the Bama's and FSUs of the world. We lost an elite RB, just like 118 other schools did tonight.

 

[livefaith]

Can we stop kidding ourselves here? We know a lot of things go on behind the scenes but at the end of the day it's about dollar signs. Whether it be proven evidence you can get to the nfl, a bag of cash, a Dodge Charger, or a mix of all of them, you don't get good prospects without showing them the dollar signs.

And recruiting, while dependent on the fickle and easily impressionable minds of teenagers, is not so complex. No matter how dumb the kid is they will connect dots and look at what is shown to them on the field. Hype only works until it doesn't come to fruition. These recruits could care less if you had "bad luck" and half your team got injured. Call it luck or not, but proven greatness doesn't let bad luck turn a playoff contender into a "second place in the state" and praying for a bowl win to say "at least we didn't do worse than last year" team.

So stop taking the hose from someone else's hand, shoving it down your own throat, and chugging orange koolaid like it's straight from the fountain of youth. If you see a bunch of suspect offers going out, we missed on the prospect that really mattered. Cam Akers was gone the second Timothy Jordan and Jonathan Lovett got offers. Can probably say goodbye to etienne and Felix too. Lamont wade was gone the second Shamburgers commit was accepted, and the only way he is gone is if they can pay one of these other recruits to come here. News flash, corker picked Kentucky over us. Chew on that for a few more seconds than I'm sure you have already, and then when you hope we get ameer speed, Chris Henderson, or whoever else youre wishing for, chew on that again. Labryan Ray was gone the second they took a miss st commits pledge and started pursuing lower tier guys from South Carolina and wherever else. I'm still hoping we drop this Jacques jones kid, but the fact that we haven't probably means we won't be able to upgrade to sec contender talent there either.

Let's call this class what it is. A disappointment. You can't rely on trey smith to be a future all sec. Nor could you with drew Richmond. Depth is about having winning sec talent across the board, not just bodies. Missing out on guys like tee Higgins, deangelo Gibbs, and even guys who didn't have connections but seemed to be undeniably ours to lose as long as we didn't sh¡t the bed against the south Carolinas and vandys of the world, is unacceptable. You may call me a negavol or tell me I'm crying "the sky is falling" (which it's not but just might if we don't pull a rabbit out of a hat and make it to the sec champ next year or improve to 10-3 or better), but at least I'm not wasting precious hours of my life thinking about what could be rather than focusing on what is, and not naive enough to be comparing mild success in the currently lesser division of the sec to that of a championship season of 98, only to see it crumble and crush dreams.

For the record, I like butch. I like what he's done with our marketing which has clearly worked on many of the fans and recruits to an extent. And even though I'm not crazy about his offense, i can deal with it. And i like that his team plays inspired and resilient football, most of the time. And i like that he's made connections with former players and donors that need to be involved. What i can't deal with is firing your s and c coach a month before fall camp and seeing the dominos (players) fall all season long. Or letting players like Hurd or Williams fade and leave the team because youre not can't, but just aren't utilizing their skills. Or not focusing on recruiting depth and true talent (size, speed, natural ability) in the trenches where this league is won. Or giving scholarships to projects that don't deserve to be on this team if we're expected to win. I truly hope he gets his sh¡t together and acts like a fighter with their back against the wall (aka on the hot seat). Because if he doesn't and we dont meet expectations this next year, he will be. And some people will have hard decisions to make about him because it's about the program which is bigger than "he could still maybe be our guy." Don't even get me started on the taste that will be left in my mouth we lose to Nebraska and go 8-5, call it salty to say the least. See y'all my orange wearing, rocky top yelling Bretherin in Nashville. Rant over.

Not so fast my friend.

 

[Adam Sandler]

Not so fast my friend.

That took me ten minutes to write after wearing a cozy liquor jacket and deciding to "check in" after a conversation with a buddy. I rarely post these days because of the nature of recruiting, and the results we've seen, and only skim for news about once a week or so. I'm not wasting the time where most of our world is awake and busy prioritizing.

 

[voldawgforever]

Very well put.







Me too

 

[BondJamesBond]

There is some truth in your post but trust me, we don't need to start showing the $$$ to recruits to keep up with the Bama's and FSUs of the world. We lost an elite RB, just like 118 other schools did tonight.

I think you make the point so few seem to grasp. We are battling a couple of dozen schools for every prospect. The idea that we win half of those is ridiculous. Bama, OSU, Florida, Miss State all lost Akers too (using him as the example). They lost Higgins as well as we did. They also lost Teague. They also lost Chandler. Last year they lost Garantano. Let's get our share, see if we can coach them up, game plan, and see what happens. Too many people are trying to make sure nobody can enjoy watching this team develop. Frankly, I don't get it. Go Vols

 

[McGeesPub]

Let's get our share, see if we can coach them up, game plan, and see what happens.

Well, the majority of this has yet to really happen with this staff, and the "getting our share" part hasn't happened in a couple of years.

Hard to act like they haven't had a fair shot yet.

 

[vol2002]

Well, the majority of this has yet to really happen with this staff, and the "getting our share" part hasn't happened in a couple of years.

Hard to act like they haven't had a fair shot yet.

Next year or bust for the staff. Tennessee is a very hard place to recruit to when the coaches are on the hotseat. If we don't show meaningful progress next fall Butch will have to go for the sake of the program, otherwise recruiting will continue to nose dive.

 

[volfreak72]

I think that fence around the state has a hole in it. As far as Akers, I never really felt he was coming here because of Chandler. If you're not in the top three in the SEC in recruiting, you're an average team, not elite.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Well, the majority of this has yet to really happen with this staff, and the "getting our share" part hasn't happened in a couple of years.

Hard to act like they haven't had a fair shot yet.

I disagree on both of your points, but not violently. I don't think the die is cast with CBJ or with his recruits. I never expected a miracle turnaround, even though I wanted one just like everyone else. Maybe we get where we want to be, maybe we don't. I just don't think we know yet.

 

[Chuckie]

I disagree on both of your points, but not violently. I don't think the die is cast with CBJ or with his recruits. I never expected a miracle turnaround, even though I wanted one just like everyone else. Maybe we get where we want to be, maybe we don't. I just don't think we know yet.

That statement is really the crux of the differences of opinion of fans (and, can we all keep in mind that, regardless of our opinion, 98% of us on this board are orange-blooded, ride or die fans of UT?).

There are those who, like you, feel that we really don't know yet. There are some (very few, though) who think Butch is the man. And there are those like me. I decided late on October 29 that Butch is not the one that will take us back to a truly elite level (winning the East, on average, every 2-3 years, an SEC championship every 5 years or so, etc...). I support my stance with other things that, when they occurred, didn't necessarily lead me to that conclusion. For example, given my belief that Butch is not the one that will make Tennessee special again, I look back to things that support my opinion: last year's recruiting class, this year's recruiting class to date, personnel issues, the S&C debacle, having the opportunity to get an elite OC (Matt Canada was ours for the taking) and hiring an out-of-the-business olympic sports administrator from behind a desk at Michigan, etc, etc, etc.

I desperately hope I'm wrong.

And while I don't necessarily agree with everything in the OP, I think the thread title is perfect for me and those that share my opinion of Butch and where the program stands at this moment in time.

 

[Foster's Tacos]

Don't let high school kids keep you up too late at night IMO

 

[Ron Swanson]

Either Butch makes proper changes to the staff next month and they turn the ship around winning 10+ next fall or the next coach will come in with a very attractive roster on his hands. We have enough talent on this roster to win the East and get to the playoffs. The new AD won't have to settle for a coach we have to google. Best case scenario Butch makes the right changes and wins the East next fall, can't wait to watch and see what happens. GBO

 

[orangesoda]

Either Butch makes proper changes to the staff next month and they turn the ship around winning 10+ next fall or the next coach will come in with a very attractive roster on his hands. We have enough talent on this roster to win the East and get to the playoffs. The new AD won't have to settle for a coach we have to google. Best case scenario Butch makes the right changes and wins the East next fall, can't wait to watch and see what happens. GBO

I can't see us getting 10 wins next year! Hope I am wrong and I will be surprised if Butch makes any upgrades on staff. At least this job will be more appealing with a good roster!

 

[SCvol333]

Either Butch makes proper changes to the staff next month and they turn the ship around winning 10+ next fall or the next coach will come in with a very attractive roster on his hands. We have enough talent on this roster to win the East and get to the playoffs. The new AD won't have to settle for a coach we have to google. Best case scenario Butch makes the right changes and wins the East next fall, can't wait to watch and see what happens. GBO

This job is certainly much more attractive than it was at the point that kiffy left and Dooley left. WeakerEast and much more talent.

That is especially true if JG shows some promise next year

Could be some big boy candidates available. CKelly comes to mind. Similar system. If he starts tanking again at San Fran he may be unemployed this time next year

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Either Butch makes proper changes to the staff next month and they turn the ship around winning 10+ next fall or the next coach will come in with a very attractive roster on his hands. We have enough talent on this roster to win the East and get to the playoffs. The new AD won't have to settle for a coach we have to google. Best case scenario Butch makes the right changes and wins the East next fall, can't wait to watch and see what happens. GBO

I'm not sure 10 wins is the bar though. You've gotta think it's around 8 wins given the guys they'll be losing.


Honestly though, I think an 8 win season is probably our worst possible outcome as far as Butch's future goes. It's not enough to fire the guy, for sure. But probably not enough to extend him, either. But after the 2017 season he'll have a low buyout and three seasons left on his contract.

The next AD (Blackburn please come home ASAP) would be in a bit of a tough spot deciding how to move forward in that case. The low buyout would make it possible for Butch to shop himself around moreso than he did this offseason. No extension would basically be a show of no faith from the AD.


With that in mind, our ideal outcomes are either a boom worthy season or a bust. Another "meh" season just prolongs the cloud over Butch's head and the uncertainty regarding his future and the future of the program.

 

[RollerVol]

That took me ten minutes to write after wearing a cozy liquor jacket and deciding to "check in" after a conversation with a buddy. I rarely post these days because of the nature of recruiting, and the results we've seen, and only skim for news about once a week or so. I'm not wasting the time where most of our world is awake and busy prioritizing.

nice post...have another drink on me...

GO VOLS...BEAT HUSKERS!

 

[Mick]

I'm not sure 10 wins is the bar though. You've gotta think it's around 8 wins given the guys they'll be losing.


Honestly though, I think an 8 win season is probably our worst possible outcome as far as Butch's future goes. It's not enough to fire the guy, for sure. But probably not enough to extend him, either. But after the 2017 season he'll have a low buyout and three seasons left on his contract.

The next AD (Blackburn please come home ASAP) would be in a bit of a tough spot deciding how to move forward in that case. The low buyout would make it possible for Butch to shop himself around moreso than he did this offseason. No extension would basically be a show of no faith from the AD.


With that in mind, our ideal outcomes are either a boom worthy season or a bust. Another "meh" season just prolongs the cloud over Butch's head and the uncertainty regarding his future and the future of the program.

I'm just wanting CBJ to take the next step to become an elite coach and that requires introspection. It was easier to, in essence blame the DC for the blown leads last year and get a new DC than to look within his own offensive philosophies.

Excited to see what a dose of not Dobbs can do for the offense next year. Not a knock on Dobbs just something different. Just by having a new starting QB will help us judge CBJ's scheme and philosophy. Does his scheme require the QB to run 8-12 times a game or was that just a product of calling plays to Dobbs strengths and the OL's deficiencies?

 

[Bring_Back_Dooley]

Honestly though, I think an 8 win season is probably our worst possible outcome as far as Butch's future goes. It's not enough to fire the guy, for sure. But probably not enough to extend him, either. But after the 2017 season he'll have a low buyout and three seasons left on his contract.

The next AD (Blackburn please come home ASAP) would be in a bit of a tough spot deciding how to move forward in that case. The low buyout would make it possible for Butch to shop himself around moreso than he did this offseason. No extension would basically be a show of no faith from the AD.

Good post. Ironically, the worst possible outcome for next season is another 8-4 record, but what if those 8 wins also include wins over UGA and UF? That's a really difficult situation for the AD, as CBJ has another few years on his contract.

You have to wonder how much recruiting will be affected if UT has another 8-4 season, but at the same time, what if we're consistently beating two of our three main rivals?

 

[screenthis]

I'm certainly not a 'nega vol'. And, in another post, we see information about our Fan Base being seen as quite negative by Recruits. That does have some impact.

But, I can't disagree with the OPs rather objective analysis on recruiting. I don't normally take issue with those posters that bring facts rather than simply ranting. What is unfolding is what many expected. We recruited well with a coach who was good at selling without 'on field' proof. We were the only program for a year or two with a mediocre record in the top 10 for Recruiting.

But now, there's on field proof that Butch may have issues with 'in game' coaching. We've lost some games we should have won. And, the recruits see that. So, Butch's job became that much harder. Beat SC and Vandy and it would be a very different story.

So yes, how butch closes out recruiting this year, the coaches he hires, and on field improvements next year will tell the whole story for me. Sorry though, I'm still going to drink some of the orange kool-aid.

 

[Catbone]

Good post. Ironically, the worst possible outcome for next season is another 8-4 record, but what if those 8 wins also include wins over UGA and UF? That's a really difficult situation for the AD, as CBJ has another few years on his contract.

You have to wonder how much recruiting will be affected if UT has another 8-4 season, but at the same time, what if we're consistently beating two of our three main rivals?

That would mean Butch loses to Vandy and or Scar again. That can't happen

 

[Special Ed]

Take two of these and call me in the morning:

+

 

[kell7517]

That statement is really the crux of the differences of opinion of fans (and, can we all keep in mind that, regardless of our opinion, 98% of us on this board are orange-blooded, ride or die fans of UT?).

There are those who, like you, feel that we really don't know yet. There are some (very few, though) who think Butch is the man. And there are those like me. I decided late on October 29 that Butch is not the one that will take us back to a truly elite level (winning the East, on average, every 2-3 years, an SEC championship every 5 years or so, etc...). I support my stance with other things that, when they occurred, didn't necessarily lead me to that conclusion. For example, given my belief that Butch is not the one that will make Tennessee special again, I look back to things that support my opinion: last year's recruiting class, this year's recruiting class to date, personnel issues, the S&C debacle, having the opportunity to get an elite OC (Matt Canada was ours for the taking) and hiring an out-of-the-business olympic sports administrator from behind a desk at Michigan, etc, etc, etc.

I desperately hope I'm wrong.

And while I don't necessarily agree with everything in the OP, I think the thread title is perfect for me and those that share my opinion of Butch and where the program stands at this moment in time.

The same Matt Canada, that has only put up 3 points against a 6-6 Northwestern team. The td was one long toss up pass that Pitt came up with.

 

[Chuckie]

The same Matt Canada, that has only put up 3 points against a 6-6 Northwestern team. The td was one long toss up pass that Pitt came up with.

I was using Canada as an example, and almost everyone in the world would take him over Debord if you asked them. My point is, I don't think Butch is the long-term answer, and the fact that he hired Debord when he had an OC position to fill is one of many reasons I have that opinion. If you disagree, I'm cool with that.

Oh, and I'll be sure to remember that OC's only get credit for methodical, plodding, 85-yard TD drives. Quick-strikes are pure luck and have nothing to do with the OC's prowess. :hi:

 

[McGeesPub]

Good post. Ironically, the worst possible outcome for next season is another 8-4 record, but what if those 8 wins also include wins over UGA and UF? That's a really difficult situation for the AD, as CBJ has another few years on his contract.

You have to wonder how much recruiting will be affected if UT has another 8-4 season, but at the same time, what if we're consistently beating two of our three main rivals?

That implies a couple of really bad losses. Probably also not winning the east. If that happens the only question is if it's financially feasible to fire him, because the performance would certainly not meet expectations.