I was so wrong...

#101
#101
MrBiggles said:
This is what I'm thinking as well. I think the reason we had a lot of those blow outs last year was because the players were young and couldn't grasp the "fundamentals" of the offense. I think Butch and co have a system that says first this or these plays then those then these until the whole play book is open and any play can be called with faith in the players that it will be executed.
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Actually it is more than just grasping the fundamentals.

IIRC, someone posted a fairly long article here once that explained Jones' O approach. It IS built on "trees" both in the passing and run games. You have a based play then a succession of plays based off of that base play. When installing that kind of a scheme, you have to master the base plays and their immediate variants before moving to the more complex stuff.

I think the word you were looking for was "master" rather than grasp. The team has to "master" one layer before another is added.

However, if this is true of Jones then we SHOULD see improvement this fall since a system that requires more than 2 years to master... would be fairly useless when players rotate out of the system every 4 years.
 
#102
#102
UTodd01 said:
Going solely by recruiting rankings is silly. Especially since the top 10 is fluid and interchangeable every year.

For example, I would have given us the top spot last year. Obviously the recruiting services didn't see it that way. They have their systems.

As long as you're building depth, and getting impact players WHILE staying in the top 10 on a yearly basis - you'll be in the championship conversation.
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There is no doubt we were the top spot last year. Over 30 signed with a third EEs. Quality top to bottom.

Don't let the rankings fool you. It was the #1 class and it wasn't even close.
 
#103
#103
McDad said:
UGA's injuries means Butch is downgraded.

UT's injuries against Mizz have no factor on grade.

That seems incongruous.
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You could be right. I certainly think UT gives MU a run with Worley at QB. But then again, Worley probably couldnt have done much about the fact that Mizzou torched UT's D by running the same sweep over and over.

You could also say that UGA lost players because UT was the more physical team. I think you'd be dead on with that. For the first time in awhile UT looked like the more physical team vs UGA.
 
#104
#104
Rooster1 said:
The jury is still out on Jones. People have been praising him all offseason and speaking of him as if he had already restored the UT program to greatness. Watch those same people blast him after this season if the Vols go 5-7 or so. He may be all that and more, but he has not proven it yet and likely will not in 2014. UT fans will find out if he is the man for the job in 2015. If he trips or stumbles in 2015, he is going to feel the heat.
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If he's the right guy then there are going to be incremental improvements. According to Daj, he actually has a roster advantage vs 8 opponents this fall AND he's a "plus 2" coach (wins two more than his talent level on avg). Due to some inexperience, I think 8 is probably a reach much less 10. OTOH, 5 or less wouldn't show the kind of improvement he needs to show IMO.

For recruiting and image, he NEEDS 6-7 wins... and he has a team capable of winning 6-7.
 
#105
#105
sjt18 said:
You could be right. I certainly think UT gives MU a run with Worley at QB. But then again, Worley probably couldnt have done much about the fact that Mizzou torched UT's D by running the same sweep over and over.

You could also say that UGA lost players because UT was the more physical team. I think you'd be dead on with that. For the first time in awhile UT looked like the more physical team vs UGA.
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The D lost the Mizzou game. You really couldn't expect much more from a qb than what Dobbs did that game. Him and North were pretty much the only weapons.
 
#106
#106
MrBiggles said:
This is what I'm thinking as well. I think the reason we had a lot of those blow outs last year was because the players were young and couldn't grasp the "fundamentals" of the offense. I think Butch and co have a system that says first this or these plays then those then these until the whole play book is open and any play can be called with faith in the players that it will be executed.
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Playmakers 2012: Bray, Patterson, Hunter, Rivera, Z Rogers

Playmakers 2013: North, Howard, Neal

Big difference
 
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#107
#107
Spartacavolus said:
last year wasn't great coaching but have any of you not been on the field when you are outmanned? Outsized, outdepth and outspeed. Add in a totally new system and it's a mess. I've been on the field or court before when we knew what was coming and there wasn't anything we could do about it. That's not an excuse. It's a fact. People complaining about the blowouts are clueless as to how little talent we have had. If you have any damn questions, look at the nfl draft the past few years and the last db or lb we had taken in the draft was Eric Burry, Ericburry. In '09. It's '14
Yes the Vandy game sucked. Yes the SC game was awesome. Usually an outmanned team will win one they shouldn't and lose one they shouldn't and that's what happened.
Worst part is if poor Pig doesn't try to help his qb, last years team is bowling and erybody isn't pissed off or questioning the coaches, though we are trying to stop the all time SEC leading receiver with Max Arnold, Swafford, Toney and #47 linebacker on the field on the last drive. That's not happening again.
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Understand your points Sparty and agree with virtually all of them. I certainly agree that we were outmanned a number of times last year and I'll throw in that guys who had been in the program brought a lot of Dooley "baggage" with regards to a culture of losing and a defeatist attitude.

I wasn't intending to come off as complaining about the blowouts but rather to just make a judgment of how well the team appeared prepared and ready to play. At no point in any of those games did the team appear to be either of those.....which stood in stark contrast to how they looked vs Georgia and SCar.

Matchups can explain some of it for sure. But at the end of the day, Oregon put up 59 straight points on us and it could've been 80.... Bama was up 35-0 by halftime and let off the gas in the 2nd half or it would've been much worse.... vs Mizzou the team looked flat and uninterested from the opening kick..... the Auburn game was,well, the Auburn game. At no point during any of those games did I think "we're outmatched for sure but man we look like a well coached team, Butch is really keeping us in it and giving us a chance to win".
 
#109
#109
KBVol said:
Understand your points Sparty and agree with virtually all of them. I certainly agree that we were outmanned a number of times last year and I'll throw in that guys who had been in the program brought a lot of Dooley "baggage" with regards to a culture of losing and a defeatist attitude.

I wasn't intending to come off as complaining about the blowouts but rather to just make a judgment of how well the team appeared prepared and ready to play. At no point in any of those games did the team appear to be either of those.....which stood in stark contrast to how they looked vs Georgia and SCar.

Matchups can explain some of it for sure. But at the end of the day, Oregon put up 59 straight points on us and it could've been 80.... Bama was up 35-0 by halftime and let off the gas in the 2nd half or it would've been much worse.... vs Mizzou the team looked flat and uninterested from the opening kick..... the Auburn game was,well, the Auburn game. At no point during any of those games did I think "we're outmatched for sure but man we look like a well coached team, Butch is really keeping us in it and giving us a chance to win".
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Bama has had @ 23 defensive players drafted since '10.
Oregon has had 9.
UT has had 4 and one was McCullers, who did little for us.

Nobody has said Butch and company couldn't have coached better. I just think a better opinion on their ability should be formed when we have some talent to compete consistently. And this isn't HS football as micromanager alluded to where he says they were outmanned but never lost. This is SEC. NFL Southeast. And they like speed. And they haven't wanted any UT defensive players.
 
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#111
#111
He has done a great job bringing in a lot of talent. That talent is very young and may need a year or two for some of them to perform to SEC levels.
 
#113
#113
The day Butch was hired, my immediate response was, "Who?" That wasn't doubting him, I just wasn't familiar with him. However there was one thing I knew that had to be good about him; his name wasn't Derek Dooley.

So, I awaited his arrival, and just happened to drive past the airport as the plane he came in on taxied into the hanger. I sat and drank a latte at the Starbucks across the way as they drove onto Alcoa Highway. It didn't occur to me that the cars that passed by was him, until I saw the plane on a video. By the time he arrived on campus, I was at a friend's apartment, and we watched his press conference.

By the time he finished the press conference, I felt we were heading in a better direction. And I still do. Sure, the wins are yet to come, but from his recruiting effort and from the praises the recruits, players, and former Vols throw his way, I still have faith.

I have no idea how well this season goes. My crystal ball is not working so well nowadays. The only thing I feel sure of today is a great many fans at the games this season will now purchase and wear bucket hats, and win or lose, we will see definite progress this year.
 
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#114
#114
We need to leave the "almost beat #6 UGA" talk out of it. When arguably the best RB in the Nation is not in uniform and the other RB, that gashed us time and again in 2012, tears his ACL early it kind of put them behind the 8-ball so to speak. Not arguing it was a great game we were inches from winning just if both teams were close to healthy I'm afraid we would be using the UGA game as reason to show that bUTch needs to prepare better. Sometimes it's not about X's and O's but more the Jimmy's and Joe's.
 
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#115
#115
MWAVolfan said:
he can recruit them. we still dont know if he can turn that into wins on the field in the SEC.

But he gets the credit he deserves so far.
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northone.gif

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#116
#116
If X's and O's don't move fast or hit hard, then it doesn't matter who's drawing them. I've got confidence that Butch will look smarter with faster, harder hitting letters to draw in.
:hi:
 
#118
#118
Rock33 said:
We need to leave the "almost beat #6 UGA" talk out of it. When arguably the best RB in the Nation is not in uniform and the other RB, that gashed us time and again in 2012, tears his ACL early it kind of put them behind the 8-ball so to speak. Not arguing it was a great game we were inches from winning just if both teams were close to healthy I'm afraid we would be using the UGA game as reason to show that bUTch needs to prepare better. Sometimes it's not about X's and O's but more the Jimmy's and Joe's.
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Our Jimmy's knocked UGA's Joe's out of the stinking football game!

That ain't luck last time I checked - it's called tackle football.
 
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#119
#119
Lane Kiffin,Ed Orgeron and co. Are cheaters. Their recruiting is paying players and breaking all the rules necessary. Butch Jones seems to be a man of integrity and he seems to have some sort of morals about himself. Most of CLK players ended up being non productive and troublesome. CBJ has his team at kids hospitals and retirement houses giving back to the community. Huge difference
 
#120
#120
ajvol01 said:
Our Jimmy's knocked UGA's Joe's out of the stinking football game!

That ain't luck last time I checked - it's called tackle football.
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Can't like this enough. This game is one where having players get injured and having depth is all part of the game. A win caused by it is a win without an *.
 
#121
#121
ajvol01 said:
Playmakers 2012: Bray, Patterson, Hunter, Rivera, Z Rogers

Playmakers 2013: North, Howard, Neal

Big difference
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Exactly! The top 5 are now playmakers in the NFL. The bottom had a grand total of a handful of games experience. Thinking that these players were going to come in with a new coach and new system to learn and put up numbers like the ones above is wrong. They struggled to run the correct routes and our QBs struggled to get them the ball. I watched the highlights of the Vandy game (everyone seems to mention this game) again and it was the only time the D played good in that 4-5 game stretch as they caused a heap of turnovers yet the O couldn't get it done in that game. If we'd had a half way decent O for even a half Vandy is not in that game.
I'm Hoping this year with all the players having another year in the system that they will ball out and dominate against the teams we are suppose to and be competitive against the rest.
 
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#122
#122
He hit the door here knowing he could win. If you see someone with the drive and energy he has you know that he's going to win. You just can't be around and hear him speak and see the confidence in his eyes and doubt for one minute that he won't make it happen.
 
#123
#123
MrBiggles said:
Exactly! The top 5 are now playmakers in the NFL. The bottom had a grand total of a handful of games experience. Thinking that these players were going to come in with a new coach and new system to learn and put up numbers like the ones above is wrong. They struggled to run the correct routes and our QBs struggled to get them the ball. I watched the highlights of the Vandy game (everyone seems to mention this game) again and it was the only time the D played good in that 4-5 game stretch as they caused a heap of turnovers yet the O couldn't get it done in that game. If we'd had a half way decent O for even a half Vandy is not in that game.
I'm Hoping this year with all the players having another year in the system that they will ball out and dominate against the teams we are suppose to and be competitive against the rest.
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:ermm: Bray and Rogers arent
 
#124
#124
I too were wrong and I'm very happy I was.Butch continues to impress daily.If we can just get to 6 and 6 this year it would set up some major fireworks the following season.I have no doubt the Bristol game in 2016 will be a springboard to some very glorious times on Rocky Top.I can't wait till football season.Go Vols and HTTR!!
 
#125
#125
ajvol01 said:
Our Jimmy's knocked UGA's Joe's out of the stinking football game!

That ain't luck last time I checked - it's called tackle football.
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We didn't knock their best player out of the game. Gurley prior to the game was injured and didn't play a down vs UT. I was proud of how we played vs Georgia but I think the outcome might've been a little different had he played.
 
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