I will say this for Cain (new CNN poll)

[lawgator1]

I think he has done a lot to break down racial barriers in some of the more conservative bastions of the GOP.

Most recent poll has he and Romney leading at 25 and 26 percent, respectively. And, some 39 % of the TP support Cain. If you go with the more mainstream folks, the number reverses in favor of Romney.

CNN Poll: Two-thirds of Republicans say minds are not made up – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Also, only one third of the GOP say they have made up their minds. This suggests that, even though Perry is currently a distant third, he could turn things around. I don't think he will, but its certainly not over.

Very interesting stuff here. If Romney wins the nomination, which I still think is likely, what odds would you give for something like a Cain-Paul third party ticket sponsored by the TP? Would they be disillusioned enough if Romney is the nominee to go to that option?

 

[MG1968]

Third Party Conservative ticket = Obama re-election

Paul can't ally himself with Cain without being seen as a hypocrite

 

[KiffinKiller]

Third Party Conservative ticket = Obama re-election

Paul can't ally himself with Cain without being seen as a hypocrite

In other words, Paul will be a politician and sell out for personal gain.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Nice backhanded compliment. Don't dare ever admit that conservatives might not be any more racist than the liberals.
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[MG1968]

In other words, Paul will be a politician and sell out for personal gain.

no, Paul is so adamantly anti-federal reserve that teaming up with Cain will be seen by his legions of rabid followers as an act of treachery

 

[lawgator1]

Nice backhanded compliment. Don't dare ever admit that conservatives might not be any more racist than the liberals.
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I think you are overanalyzing the op.

To say that the TP harbor some pretty extreme views is nothing all that unusual. That so many who align themselves with the TP would also support a black man for POTUS because they like what he stands for first and foremost is not an insult.

To acknowledge the good parts about their future, I think you have to at least recognize the bad things about their past.

 

[utvolpj]

I think you are overanalyzing the op.

pretty hard not to when you routinely describe them as racist and even said any support of Cain was token at best. More wrong every day

 

[lawgator1]

no, Paul is so adamantly anti-federal reserve that teaming up with Cain will be seen by his legions of rabid followers as an act of treachery

Valid point. But its not Paul's supporters that matter. They'd be giddy to have Paul in the administration. Cain's people would love it because of the fiscal conservatism, and Cain is not as far as I know beholden to any major military contractors that would be put off by Paul's position on foreign affairs.

 

[lawgator1]

pretty hard not to when you routinely describe them as racist and even said any support of Cain was token at best. More wrong every day

I do think they have racial elements to their organization, and I did say support would be token, but I am complimenting him for breaking through that and complimenting them for putting it aside in favor of someone they ideologically can get behind.

As I say, you can't pat them on the back without acknowledging the past.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I cant stand white people
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[IBlvNTmWrk]

I do think they have racial elements to their organization, and I did say support would be token, but I am complimenting him for breaking through that and complimenting them for putting it aside in favor of someone they ideologically can get behind.

As I say, you can't pat them on the back without acknowledging the past.

So in other words, you still believe the TP group is largely racist... but you think it is a compliment to them that they can "put aside" their racial opinions to support a black candidate. Got it.

 

[lawgator1]

So in other words, you still believe the TP group is largely racist... but you think it is a compliment to them that they can "put aside" their racial opinions to support a black candidate. Got it.

You think old prejudices just magically melt away?

Those old prejudices are confronted by a new reality, which is that here is a black man who believes the same things they do about the economy and limited government. It is incongruous with their expectations, and when the two confront one another, a large number are opting for what he says, rather than his ethnicity.

Its not an insult, its reality.

 

[TennTradition]

I do think they have racial elements to their organization, and I did say support would be token, but I am complimenting him for breaking through that and complimenting them for putting it aside in favor of someone they ideologically can get behind.

As I say, you can't pat them on the back without acknowledging the past.

... Or, maybe you were just wrong about their racial bias to begin with. Nah, couldn't be!
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[volinbham]

You think old prejudices just magically melt away?

Those old prejudices are confronted by a new reality, which is that here is a black man who believes the same things they do about the economy and limited government. It is incongruous with their expectations, and when the two confront one another, a large number are opting for what he says, rather than his ethnicity.

Its not an insult, its reality.

It's an opinion. The Dem party has plenty of old prejudices and BPMFV nailed it - you simply cannot acknowledge that racism is not party dependent.

 

[sjt18]

I think he has done a lot to break down racial barriers in some of the more conservative bastions of the GOP.

You mean those figments of liberal imagination that they've been scaring minorities with for years?

Conservatives like Cain for the same reasons we've loved guys like Sowell for years now... their ideals. We have adopted the attitude MLK longed for... we judge by the content of character and ideals of a person... not their skin color. It is YOUR SIDE that continues to race bait and incite racial divisions. We WANT everyone to have the same opportunities and responsibilities.

I am probably as "conservative" as anyone here... and right now Cain is the only one in the GOP field I would vote for.

Also, only one third of the GOP say they have made up their minds. This suggests that, even though Perry is currently a distant third, he could turn things around. I don't think he will, but its certainly not over.

It is over for Perry IMO. He had one shot at winning the conservatives he needed to get the nomination. He stumbled but could have recovered with the immigration gaffe. But inability to answer other questions and failure to articulate a clear conservative vision on economics and size of gov't have caused many of us to write him off.

Very interesting stuff here. If Romney wins the nomination, which I still think is likely, what odds would you give for something like a Cain-Paul third party ticket sponsored by the TP? Would they be disillusioned enough if Romney is the nominee to go to that option?

Virtually none.

I know you love to think Romney will get the nod... but he is truly the most "unelectable" in the field. Conservatives will not support him enthusiastically. Contrary to what most seem to assume, moderates are not ideology driven. They aren't looking for someone who lines up with them on the issues somehow. They are looking for someone to convince them. While many hold a position on abortion for instance, they'll forgive a disagreement there for an economic plan that sounds good. While some may oppose the war(s), they'll forget that for someone who convinces them they can increase employment.

Reagan won those moderates by huge margins... Obama won them by big margins.

They want to be inspired and "sold" on a candidate.

That's why Romney fails. He is Obama-lite.

 

[lawgator1]

It's an opinion. The Dem party has plenty of old prejudices and BPMFV nailed it - you simply cannot acknowledge that racism is not party dependent.

Oh,absolutely there is racism within some parts of the Democratic party. I completely agree with that comment.

I happen to think that race matters a bit more to the far right parts of the GOP than within the Democratic party. My point is that this is all part of the process that we have to go through, as a nation, to put those unfounded prejudices aside.

Obama's election is a part of that process, and Cain's being tied in the polls with Romney -- and with his heaviest support coming from the TP -- are all steps in that process, all signals that race as a factor in the way we evaluate people, is fading.

I am truly surprised that Cain would be getting 39 % of the TP or TP-allied vote. I admit it. Did not expect that.

 

[sjt18]

You think old prejudices just magically melt away?

Those old prejudices are confronted by a new reality, which is that here is a black man who believes the same things they do about the economy and limited government. It is incongruous with their expectations, and when the two confront one another, a large number are opting for what he says, rather than his ethnicity.

Its not an insult, its reality.

Do you have any idea how deeply offensive it is for you to continually assume the motives and "real" feelings of others when you are absolutely and completely wrong?

It might help you to actually listen to conservatives rather than trying to tell them what they believe and feel.

Those "old prejudices" are largely dead among conservatives. They only find life on the left. It is YOU that fans the flames of racism.

I agree with Cain but frankly I like him better than the others too. I in fact share more in common with him than any of the others. I am nowhere near as successful as he is but did rise to a respectable level after having come from an equally humble background.

 

[sjt18]

Oh,absolutely there is racism within some parts of the Democratic party. I completely agree with that comment.

SOME? You are the ones that continue to reinforce racial divisions. You are the ones that depend on dividing people into manageable groups to maintain power.

I happen to think that race matters a bit more to the far right parts of the GOP than within the Democratic party. My point is that this is all part of the process that we have to go through, as a nation, to put those unfounded prejudices aside.

Agree. You need to put your unfounded prejudices against conservatives aside... and you might want to lose your blinders to people like Sharpton, Wright, Waters, et al.

Obama's election is a part of that process, and Cain's being tied in the polls with Romney -- and with his heaviest support coming from the TP -- are all steps in that process, all signals that race as a factor in the way we evaluate people, is fading.

I disagree completely concerning Obama. He was elected with support from blacks and those who apparently like you thought it was a good idea to have a black president... rather than a QUALIFIED PRESIDENT regardless of race.

Cain is popular because a growing number of us see him as THE guy qualified to do the job... nothing AT ALL to do with his race.

I am truly surprised that Cain would be getting 39 % of the TP or TP-allied vote. I admit it. Did not expect that.

You should have. I told you awhile back where his support was and would come from... but then again you were too busy deciding what those you don't understand must think or do rather than listening.

 

[sjt18]

I do think they have racial elements to their organization,.

You have believed this in spite of the FACTS for a long time. The left, MSM, and establishment civil rights organizations have spent literally millions trying to find some evidence of racism within the TP... they've failed.

When are you going to finally wake up to the fact that the Tea Party is LESS RACIST than the population at large and liberals specifically?

There was a day when blacks were thought incapable of playing QB in the NFL... they weren't smart enough. They weren't smart enough to be OL's either.

Which side continues to believe non-sense like that? Which side thinks blacks need special treatment to succeed? Hint: it isn't conservatives or TP.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

... Or, maybe you were just wrong about their racial bias to begin with. Nah, couldn't be!
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[Rasputin_Vol]

Third Party Conservative ticket = Obama re-election

Oh well... sometimes you have to lose elections to make a point.

They need to get it right this time around if they want the TP vote.

 

[MUR73]

]Nice backhanded compliment[/B]. Don't dare ever admit that conservatives might not be any more racist than the liberals.
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+1...pathetic.

 

[NEO]

You think old prejudices just magically melt away?

Those old prejudices are confronted by a new reality, which is that here is a black man who believes the same things they do about the economy and limited government. It is incongruous with their expectations, and when the two confront one another, a large number are opting for what he says, rather than his ethnicity.

Its not an insult, its reality.

I love it when a someone like yourself feels equiped to tell people how I (a tea party member) feels and that you know how we all feel.

I didn't suddenly wake up and see a black man and have this deep realization that a black man could have the same interest as myself. I saw a guy who had the same interest as myself who just happens to be black.

His skin color obviously means alot more to you than it does me ... and that's pathetic. You see race before seeing the person and that makes you the racist on here.

You are a closet bigot, racist, who doesn't even realize how much you have in common with the KKK because they think just like you ... they see color and nothing beyond it.

You are a joke.

This world would be much better if people like you went away. You are the reason racism won't die.

You sicken me.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Last edited by GAVol

Man, you must have went in deep on him. :unsure:

 

[GAVol]

Man, you must have went in deep on him. :unsure:

Yeah, I sort of softened that up a little.