ICE Creates Vigilante Program

#27
#27
Orange_Crush said:
I forgot the "basically" deputizing.

Can you link to the parts about them just sending out idiots to stop and accost random people?

I saw that they are actually training them and then giving them whatever limited "powers" to go out and do so. Isn't that "basically" deputizing them?




What would you call it?
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I'd call it a bad idea, and already have.
 
#28
#28
McDad said:
I cannot find anything in the Daily Mail UK article.

I tried a different source (NewsWeek) and found nothing either.

This is the only quote related (imo):

Asked why Guadian's letter on the program and ICE's statement appeared to highlight vastly different parts of the curriculum, Alberico maintained that "ICE is not training anyone to do immigration enforcement."
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So, according to this thread, either they're training private citizens (basically training and deputizing), which is equal to haphazardly unleashing ignorant idiots to randomly harass people. Or, we just don't know exactly what they're doing?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what's actually going on. I still contend that ICE training people would not be equivalent to:
Weezer said:
...some idiots decide they want to take the law in their own hands.
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#29
#29
Weezer said:
I'd call it a bad idea, and already have.
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You're free to call it anything you want. As I've said, if the gov't is training and sending out people, it's ignorant and disingenuous to call it: "...some idiots decid[ing] they want to take the law in their own hands."
 
#30
#30
Orange_Crush said:
So, according to this thread, either they're training private citizens (basically training and deputizing), which is equal to haphazardly unleashing ignorant idiots to randomly harass people. Or, we just don't know exactly what they're doing?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what's actually going on. I still contend that ICE training people would not be equivalent to:
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And I think you're underestimating the number of stupid people that are out there. Look at the Ahmaud Arbery case when two idiots decided to play cops. People get it into their heads that they're doing the right thing when they're actually doing the complete opposite.
 
#31
#31
Orange_Crush said:
So, according to this thread, either they're training private citizens (basically training and deputizing), which is equal to haphazardly unleashing ignorant idiots to randomly harass people. Or, we just don't know exactly what they're doing?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what's actually going on. I still contend that ICE training people would not be equivalent to:
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I agree with your equivalency.

The articles report it is more of community outreach so other can appreciate what the agency does and how the agents are trained.

Of course, this is the government, so it could all be cover to train snitches.
 
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#32
#32
Weezer said:
And I think you're underestimating the number of stupid people that are out there. Look at the Ahmaud Arbery case when two idiots decided to play cops. People get it into their heads that they're doing the right thing when they're actually doing the complete opposite.
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So, you're back to the fallacious slippery slope argument. I'll apply the same kind of fallacious logic. "Critical thinking classes are a bad idea because they may encourage the people who didn't take them to go online and make fallacious arguments."

I'll repeat myself. ICE running a six weak course isn't sending out idiots to take the law into their own hands. That's a disingenuous caricature of what ICE [may be] doing.
 
#33
#33
Weezer said:
And I think you're underestimating the number of stupid people that are out there. Look at the Ahmaud Arbery case when two idiots decided to play cops. People get it into their heads that they're doing the right thing when they're actually doing the complete opposite.
Click to expand...

In fairness I would imagine a large portion of the "training" would focus on what not to do.
 
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#34
#34
Orange_Crush said:
So, you're back to the fallacious slippery slope argument. I'll apply the same kind of fallacious logic. "Critical thinking classes are a bad idea because they may encourage the people who didn't take them to go online and make fallacious arguments."

I'll repeat myself. ICE running a six weak course isn't sending out idiots to take the law into their own hands. That's a disingenuous caricature of what ICE [may be] doing.
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Damn man, calm down. I'm not your enemy.

And I think ICE doing anything that even suggests to normal citizens they should be looking to detain people they think are illegal is a bad idea that invites trouble this country does not need. I do not care if ICE does everything proper and by the book. Dumb people looking to be empowered will still take it the wrong way. Better to have a clear, concise picture that says leave the immigration enforcement to the professionals.
 
#36
#36
Weezer said:
Damn man, calm down. I'm not your enemy.

And I think ICE doing anything that even suggests to normal citizens they should be looking to detain people they think are illegal is a bad idea that invites trouble this country does not need. I do not care if ICE does everything proper and by the book. Dumb people looking to be empowered will still take it the wrong way. Better to have a clear, concise picture that says leave the immigration enforcement to the professionals.
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I'm neither worked up, nor attacking you. I was trying to use your form of logic in a way that would (tongue in cheek) hit home enough to help you see how ridiculous your argument is.

If there is a segment of population out there that wants to get involved, I'd rather ICE train them on how to do so. In my view, it's the exact opposite of what you've posited.

And I'm of a different cut than you, I guess. If there are hookers and drug dealers in my neighborhood, I want the police to remove them. If the police are too defunded or thinly stretched to respond, our neighborhood needs to take our neighborhood back. If it comes to that, I'd welcome the police educating us on the legalities and acceptable techniques of doing so, so that it's not just a bunch of idiot vigilantes taking the law into our own hands.

The fact of the matter is, illegal aliens are criminals. If citizens feel the need to see them expelled, I'd rather them be educated and partnering with ICE as opposed to just a bunch of idiots taking the law into their own hands.

If you think that the citizens don't have a right to see criminal aliens deported, then I believe we've found that you're trying to make a different argument than you've made, as well as the root of our disagreements.
 
#37
#37
hndog609 said:
In fairness I would imagine a large portion of the "training" would focus on what not to do.
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Much like concealed carry classes. If we applied the slippery slope fallacy there, it would sound like, "A bunch of ignorant idiots want to carry firearms, so let's not train them first."
 
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#39
#39
Orange_Crush said:
I'm neither worked up, nor attacking you. I was trying to use your form of logic in a way that would (tongue in cheek) hit home enough to help you see how ridiculous your argument is.

If there is a segment of population out there that wants to get involved, I'd rather ICE train them on how to do so. In my view, it's the exact opposite of what you've posited.

And I'm of a different cut than you, I guess. If there are hookers and drug dealers in my neighborhood, I want the police to remove them. If the police are too defunded or thinly stretched to respond, our neighborhood needs to take our neighborhood back. If it comes to that, I'd welcome the police educating us on the legalities and acceptable techniques of doing so, so that it's not just a bunch of idiot vigilantes taking the law into our own hands.

The fact of the matter is, illegal aliens are criminals. If citizens feel the need to see them expelled, I'd rather them be educated and partnering with ICE as opposed to just a bunch of idiots taking the law into their own hands.

If you think that the citizens don't have a right to see criminal aliens deported, then I believe we've found that you're trying to make a different argument than you've made, as well as the root of our disagreements.
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I agree that illegal aliens are criminals. They have violated the law on how to enter the country. And I agree the law should be enforced. I just think we should allow the proper people to enforce the law rather than attempt to take it into our own hands. The exception being if you can stop someone from being harmed or killed. And I do not support defunding police, so I say let the police do their job. I'm of the belief we should not encourage dumb people to do things that will ultimately get them into trouble. I understand your thinking on being shown "the responsible way", but I also believe that most people that "want to get involved" get carried away and end up stepping over boundaries they should not cross. You may not like the comparison, but I mentioned the Arbery case. I'm sure the McMichaels thought they were doing the right thing, but their actions still led to someone being killed. And at least one of them was a former LEO, and it still went south. If ICE wants to hold a goodwill class, fine, but nothing they do should encourage anyone to try and detain someone else. That should be left to the proper authorities.
 
#40
#40
Orange_Crush said:
Much like concealed carry classes. If we applied the slippery slope fallacy there, it would sound like, "A bunch of ignorant idiots want to carry firearms, so let's not train them first."
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Sure you train them but you don't encourage them to go out and shoot people.
 
#43
#43
Chicago is a sanctuary city that doesn’t want to cooperate with ICE, so this seems like an end around by the Feds to get hard location info on folks they are looking for.

The Mayor won’t have much recourse if her own citizens are informing ICE of where to do pickups.
 
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#44
#44
#46
#46
newarkvol said:
This false claim is a badly distorted version of Obama’s call for doubling the Peace Corps, creating volunteer networks and increasing the size of the Foreign Service.

Obama's 'National Security Force?'

Some type of training should be required for an internet connection...
Functional Internet Literacy: Required Cognitive Skills with Implications for Instruction | Request PDF
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Lol, if you like your doctor, you can keep it. Premiums will not go up. Yeah there is training that needs to be done👆

If you dont understand the post i can help you.
 
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