"If you don't vote, you have no right to complain..."

#51
#51
allvol123 said:
The point is, if you disagree with UHC, this seems illogical to vote for him. If you're worried about spending, this item is going to cost a pretty penny. He will be a D president with a D congress for likely 2 years. We are already running in this direction of UHC and will launch into a sprint if Obama wins.
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Very good point for me to consider, I am open minded. I don't think we'll see universal healthcare but you might be right.
 
#53
#53
615 Vol said:
True, I just don't see Obama spending as much as Bush granted that number is inflated due to the war cost.
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If you take away war spending I would be willing to bet Obama increases spending by at least 10%.
 
#54
#54
BigPapaVol said:
How does that work? It's not a real good chicken or egg argument. The cycle has a definite starting point.
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It seems to me the doctor got wealthy from the sick people that visit him, the attorney got wealthy from the people he/she defended, the corporate wealth at Comcast and DirecTV came from the people that pay for their service. My thinking is if the people that provide money to make wealthy people wealthy had more to provide than everyone does better. Yes, the top might get taxed more but they have more buisness to make up for it. I'm not a financial expert but it seems that if you tax cut the wealthy it just makes them more wealthy, it doesn't always trickle down very far. I know there are exceptions to the rule but that's how I see it.
 
#55
#55
615 Vol said:
It seems to me the doctor got wealthy from the sick people that visit him, the attorney got wealthy from the people he/she defended, the corporate wealth at Comcast and DirecTV came from the people that pay for their service. My thinking is if the people that provide money to make wealthy people wealthy had more to provide than everyone does better. Yes, the top might get taxed more but they have more buisness to make up for it. I'm not a financial expert but it seems that if you tax cut the wealthy it just makes them more wealthy, it doesn't always trickle down very far. I know there are exceptions to the rule but that's how I see it.
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but the money that paid for the service businesses came from somewhere. where did it come from?

This is not a chicken or egg debate. The money in those customers' pockets came from our capital markets somehow and I'm just wondering if you know how?

You might not see job sustenance or job creation as trickle down, but they are the absolute basis for our economy and exist because someone has personal capital at risk.
 
#56
#56
BigPapaVol said:
but the money that paid for the service businesses came from somewhere. where did it come from?

This is not a chicken or egg debate. The money in those customers' pockets came from our capital markets somehow and I'm just wondering if you know how?

You might not see job sustenance or job creation as trickle down, but they are the absolute basis for our economy and exist because someone has personal capital at risk.
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If DirecTV is able to put more satellites on more homes because the people that ordered the service have extra income to afford their service, doesn't that allow DirecTV to grow? Sure, someone had to start the business but once it got started, what made it grow? The customer buying the service or the tax break that allowed them to afford start-up cost? Is job creation only a result of tax breaks, not increased demand for service of that business?
 
#57
#57
I am not going to vote for Obama or McCain..... but I am going to vote..... do I have the right to complain?
 
#58
#58
615 Vol said:
If DirecTV is able to put more satellites on more homes because the people that ordered the service have extra income to afford their service, doesn't that allow DirecTV to grow? Sure, someone had to start the business but once it got started, what made it grow? The customer buying the service or the tax break that allowed them to afford start-up cost? Is job creation only a result of tax breaks, not increased demand for service of that business?
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you're trying to make it a chicken or egg argument. It's not. The incomes available to upgrade DirecTV services were provided by entrepreneurs in our system. Not vice versa. The capital investment came first and will always come first. Jobs aren't magical thingies provided by the government.

A great idea for you would be to think through this little tax rebate idea and what it did for our economy. That's an example of the gov't providing funds to the lower tiers on the tax schedule. Anything sustainable come from that?

To answer your questions, the income grew because the owner of the business saw increased value in the person whose income grew.

The customer very rarely provides startup costs. The customer most often allows the entrepreneur to repay the startup costs.

Job creation is clearly related to startup costs as are tax breaks, but generally tax breaks are more about job growth or job maintenance.
 
#59
#59
BigPapaVol said:
That's an example of the gov't providing funds to the lower tiers on the tax schedule. Anything sustainable come from that?


The customer very rarely provides startup costs. The customer most often allows the entrepreneur to repay the startup costs.
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Good example and explanation.
 
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