If your the CEO of GMC whic car models do you keep?

#26
#26
MG1968 said:
your eloquent defense of the Volt is noteworthy. However, since it hasn't reached the retail level, your praise could be misplaced.

and, taking 15 years to make up for the price premium of a first year Volt over a Honda Insight, Toyota Prius, or other fuel efficient traditional car like the Fit should give anybody a good reason to look elsewhere.
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Both valid points IMO.

It should also be noted that the payback for buying hybrid technology is even longer, and that the Volt is at least as competitive with those models. Again, it has the potential allow the consumer to never buy gas again as well as skip much of the maintenance required.

It is a tricky comparison based on specific circumstances, but I think the technology incorporated in the Volt has a specific market niche. Again, the primary difference is how the gasoline is used by the Volt, not the fact that it is necessarily a plug-in.
 
#27
#27
rjd970 said:
Let's use rough numbers since everybody's circumstances are different:

Say it costs $30 per week to fill the car over the lifetime of the payback (at $2.50/gallon, that is what it costs me). That is $120/month...$1440 per year. If you only need to use gas with the volt once every couple of months on average, assuming you only use it to go to the store, work, etc, that is only 6 fill-ups a year, or $180. If you are not using any gas, the price is ovbiously $0.

$1440-$180 = $1260/year savings

$15K/$1260 = 11.9 Years
$20K/$1260 = 15.8 Years

I understand this doesn't assume you already drive a hybrid, but even at half the cost per year you would experience with a hybrid, the Volt is still at least competitive, especially if you are never buying gas. Also, this does not factor in the cost associated with charging the battery out of an outlet of your home. However, it also doesn't factor in things you won't need to do with an electric engine that you would with a traditional or hybrid engine system...oil changes, transmission repair/replace, etc. Furhtermore, this doesn't take into account volatile oil prices...which would greatly accelerate the payback if/when oil prices rise. If all your assumptions against and all assumptions for equal out, you are still looking at roughly a 10 year buy back.

Is it a good car for the guy that commutes an hour everyday for work? No. Is it good for the guy that commutes 10 minutes to work everyday and would only need a partial charge every night? Maybe, depending on all the factors associated.

Nevertheless, if Honda or Toyota can create a plug-in hybrid that doesn't use gas to power a drivetrain, and can come up with some exotic battery technology that would reduce the price premium for a plug-in battery system, then of course the Volt is more expensive. What the Volt really offers here is increased efficiency by using gas to charge a battery, as opposed to driving a drivetrain.

Personally, I say both the hybrids and plug-in models are not worth the price. If you are getting 40 mpg with a traditional Honda Civic for ~$15K, that is about the best there is in an economic sense.
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What reasonable person is going to keep a car longer than 7 years just to get to the break even point? Not only that, but in your idealistic scenario, you haven't factured in the battery life of the Volt and how much it costs to replace that. The price of that battery system will be on par with the total price of a enginw/transmission of a regular gas powered drivetrain. Not much of a real savings.

But your last paragraph is essentially what I've been trying to preach for 6 years after my own experience with a hybrid-like car. Getting a civic/corolla type car with a gas engine is more of a value than anything else you could do.
 
#28
#28
Rasputin_Vol said:
What reasonable person is going to keep a car longer than 7 years just to get to the break even point? Not only that, but in your idealistic scenario, you haven't factured in the battery life of the Volt and how much it costs to replace that. The price of that battery system will be on par with the total price of a enginw/transmission of a regular gas powered drivetrain. Not much of a real savings.

But your last paragraph is essentially what I've been trying to preach for 6 years after my own experience with a hybrid-like car. Getting a civic/corolla type car with a gas engine is more of a value than anything else you could do.
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Like I said, the assumptions can offset one another. New battery? Well, new transmission....and what not.

One thing my "idealistic scenario" didn't take into account is fluctuating oil prices. I assumed $2.50/gallon. If gas shoots up to $3.00-4.00 a gallon, the payback is accelerated. Anything approaching $5/gallon and it is dramatic. Over the next 10-15 years, it is not all that unreasonable to assume gas could average out north of $3.00/gallon, maybe more.

Nevertheless, as long as gas prices are under $3/gallon, the civic/corolla option is by far the best.
 
#29
#29
The hybrid concept, is the interim solution until the battery technology gets to where the ICE is no longer needed.

Eventually, the technology of the battery will surpass the IC engine. Eventually the consumer can recharge the car battery for a couple of dollars at an external outlet at your house, and drive 400 miles before needing to recharge it. However there is a long, long way to go.
 
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#30
#30
oklavol said:
The hybrid concept, is the interim solution until the battery technology gets to where the ICE is no longer needed.

Eventually, the technology of the battery will surpass the IC engine. Eventually the consumer can recharge the car battery for a couple of dollars at an external outlet at your house, and drive 400 miles before needing to recharge it. However there is a long, long way to go.
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And that is coming, but until then I really think these hybrids are a complete waste of money... but hey let others invest in the RandD to get to the endgame, and then I'll buy a financially and fully viable electric car. (I do think bio diesel or hydrogen cells will still be in for the big stuff for shipping and what not)
 
#31
#31
OrangeYankee said:
And that is coming, but until then I really think these hybrids are a complete waste of money... but hey let others invest in the RandD to get to the endgame, and then I'll buy a financially and fully viable electric car. (I do think bio diesel or hydrogen cells will still be in for the big stuff for shipping and what not)
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Yes, and I think most everyone realizes that. But the car companies are trying to gain experience with the technology by using it in cars now.
 
#32
#32
oklavol said:
Yes, and I think most everyone realizes that. But the car companies are trying to gain experience with the technology by using it in cars now.
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I think the technology in the Volt is more of a step in the right direction. The hybrids are the "middle step" that doesn't really buy you anything as far as advantage.

Once "Volt-like" technology becomes cheaper and better it will phase everything else out.
 
#34
#34
take it a step further and bring back the Chevette Diesel.


edit:

btw, there are 1st Gen Toyota Priuses with nearly 300 thousand miles on them and the original battery pack is still working perfectly. I'm no fan of the hybrids and time will tell if GM's attempt to reinvent the wheel will pay off.
 
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#35
#35
They better keep a family friendly car. By that I mean an economical full size SUV and/or the mini-van/crossovers.

Having more than two kids and the sedans they make now is impossible (if you want to travel safely).

Try taking a 7 year old and two of his friends to a movie in an Impala or Malibu. Can't happen.
 
#36
#36
Without question, keep the Corvette and the Camaro. Make the Impala SS rear-wheel drive. Stop capriciously slapping the revered "SS" logo on front-wheel drive vehicles (ala the Cobalt SS, HHR SS, and the current Impala SS).
 
#37
#37
the 2010 Impala SS was intended to be a V8 RWD car, but Chevy was having problems meeting CAFE standards (or some such problem).

btw, a 7 year old and two friends in an Impala/Malibu is easy unless you're opposed to putting a 7 year old in the front seat. Even then, the rear seat was designed for 3 average sized adults.
 
#38
#38
MG1968 said:
the 2010 Impala SS was intended to be a V8 RWD car, but Chevy was having problems meeting CAFE standards (or some such problem).

btw, a 7 year old and two friends in an Impala/Malibu is easy unless you're opposed to putting a 7 year old in the front seat. Even then, the rear seat was designed for 3 average sized adults.
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I agree that the Impala is a very nice vehicle. However, the mid-90s model SS (RWD) was even nicer. I would like nothing more than to see the Impala given RWD once again.
 
#39
#39
MG1968 said:
the 2010 Impala SS was intended to be a V8 RWD car, but Chevy was having problems meeting CAFE standards (or some such problem).

btw, a 7 year old and two friends in an Impala/Malibu is easy unless you're opposed to putting a 7 year old in the front seat. Even then, the rear seat was designed for 3 average sized adults.
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Fitting three booster seats in an Impala/Malibu can be done with much cussing. Any more is not a possibility.

And yes, I'm opposed to putting a child under 12 in the front seat of a car.
 
#41
#41
UT IE 95 said:
Try taking a 7 year old and two of his friends to a movie in an Impala or Malibu. Can't happen.
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How was my mom and all my friends' moms able to do it without SUVs or station wagons when I was growing up? :unsure:

I mean, 3 kids and one adult can't possibly fit in an Impala...
 
#42
#42
Rasputin_Vol said:
How was my mom and all my friends' moms able to do it without SUVs or station wagons when I was growing up? :unsure:

I mean, 3 kids and one adult can't possibly fit in an Impala...
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I hope you're kidding, but maybe your not.

First, safety laws are very different now. Second, cars are smaller.

It really bugs me to see toddlers bouncing around the back of a car going down the interstate. Not long ago, that was very common.
 
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