Increase Class Size - Layoff Teachers

#1

Panthro

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#1
My wife just forwarded me this message that was emailed to work address...she's a teacher.
They want to increase class sizes, and lay off thousands of teachers.
She's got 22 kids in her class this year, and 12 of them do not speak English...or at least English is their second language. Not sure how adding to a class like that would help anybody.
Surely a plan like this would never pass...right?



Guest column: Haslam's bad idea -- larger class sizes

The governor's plan could result in thousands of teacher layoffs, huge financial burdens on local governments and a reversal of our progress in public education.

By Craig Fitzhugh and Reginald Tate, Special to The Commercial Appeal
It's your daughter's first day of kindergarten. She's excited, but also scared to be leaving Mom and Dad. You tell her it will be all right, that her teacher will take care of her and that she'll make lots of new friends.

But as you open that classroom door, you're shocked to see dozens of other children, all going through the same emotions as your daughter. Some are crying, some are yelling and several are trying to run out of the room. You wonder how your daughter will get the attention she needs from her teacher, who will struggle simply to find space for everyone. Suddenly, you're feeling the same nerves as your daughter -- but for an entirely different reason.

A proposal from Gov. Bill Haslam would permit public school districts in Tennessee to create classes with larger numbers of children and, as a result, would decrease the individual attention our children receive from their teachers. The plan could also result in thousands of teacher layoffs, unbearable financial burdens on local governments and a reversal of the progress we have made in our schools.
We support the governor's efforts to enact meaningful reform and provide the education our children deserve. That's why we passed Tennessee's Race to the Top legislation two years ago, enabling our public schools to measure performance, better train teachers and support innovative ideas.

But the governor has made a mistake by pushing this year to allow larger class sizes in elementary and middle schools, a move that members of his own party have opposed. Removing the state's average class-size requirement means schools would put more students in every classroom, while laying off thousands of teachers at a time when we need them the most.

Currently, the state-mandated average class size for grades K-3 and grades 7-8 is 20 students, with the maximum number of students allowed in any class set at 25. Some classrooms may have the maximum number of students, but any school's average class size must be at or below 20 students. (In grades 4-6, the average class size is set at 25 students and the maximum number of students allowed in any class is 30.)

Right now, the state bases its teacher funding on the average class size, funding one teacher's position for every 20 students in grades K-3 and 7-8. Under the administration's proposal, however, funding would be based on the maximum class size, meaning one teaching position would be funded for every 25 students in those grades.

In Memphis City Schools, the state currently pays for 3,221 teachers. Under the new proposal, only 2,641 teachers would be funded, leaving 580 jobs to be funded completely by the local school district. Those positions would be in addition to 505 teachers whose salaries are already paid solely with Memphis tax dollars.

Memphis City Schools officials would have to do one of two things to meet their budget: seek an increase in taxes or lay off teachers. The same is true for other school systems across Tennessee, as nearly 5,300 teaching jobs would be cut from state education dollars. Our local governments should not be put in the position of having to choose between taking money from our families or teachers from our children.

Nearly three decades ago, a study funded by the legislature found that smaller class sizes make a significant difference in a child's education, especially in early grades and among students from low-income households. The study prompted at least 24 states to put into place class-size restrictions or incentives.

Now, several of those states are raising class sizes to balance their budgets, and the administration wants to follow the same path. In Tennessee, however, we have a balanced budget, and we have lived within our means. Raising class sizes is not only a bad idea, it's unnecessary. We didn't win the Race to the Top by doing what everyone else was doing. We won because we promised to do what no one else would -- and we promised to do it together. Putting more children into already overcrowded classrooms would break that promise. At a time when we need the best ideas in education, this isn't one of them.
 
#2
#2
Haslam is just awful. Add this to the long list of bad things he has done and will continue to do.
 
#4
#4
My wife is a first year teacher who is in the same situation. However, times are hard. Budgets are shrinking. Is there any science that says increasing classroom sizes by a student per classroom hurts student performance. What is the optimal size? As a society we have to start weighing costs and benefits. Economies are toppling in Europe because of failure to do so.
 
#5
#5
If I heard correctly, it would be the teachers options to take on more students. They don't have to. What's wrong with paying teachers more and getting rid of potentially bad ones?
 
#6
#6
In Memphis City Schools, the state currently pays for 3,221 teachers. Under the new proposal, only 2,641 teachers would be funded, leaving 580 jobs to be funded completely by the local school district. Those positions would be in addition to 505 teachers whose salaries are already paid solely with Memphis tax dollars.

sounds like they're leaving it up to the local gov't to pay. Why should a person in Knoxville be responsible for subsidizing the education in Memphis?
 
#7
#7
If I heard correctly, it would be the teachers options to take on more students. They don't have to. What's wrong with paying teachers more and getting rid of potentially bad ones?

Would be wonderful. Unfortunately, they usually just get rid of young ones. Tenure is a stupid idea and way too easy to get.
 
#11
#11
the writers are both political. so i immediately take what they say with a grain of salt
 
#12
#12
My wife is a first year teacher who is in the same situation. However, times are hard. Budgets are shrinking. Is there any science that says increasing classroom sizes by a student per classroom hurts student performance. What is the optimal size? As a society we have to start weighing costs and benefits. Economies are toppling in Europe because of failure to do so.

There is a proven inverse relationship between class size and student performance, and IIRC around 20 is the largest optimal class size.
 
#14
#14
tenure is the problem. I have no problem with laying off bad teachers...but the layoffs can have the opposite effect.
 
#15
#15
My wife is a first year teacher who is in the same situation. However, times are hard. Budgets are shrinking. Is there any science that says increasing classroom sizes by a student per classroom hurts student performance. What is the optimal size? As a society we have to start weighing costs and benefits. Economies are toppling in Europe because of failure to do so.

This. It'd be a nice world if we could fund everything we desire, but budget constraints force the hand.

Also, the data I've seen shows small classroom sizes don't really seem to be advantageous unless the size is absurdly small (like 8 or something).
 
#16
#16
Also, if I were a teacher I'd be mad at administration, not the gods of the budget. Administrative costs relative to faculty compensation costs have risen for decades. Get rid of administrators and keep the teachers.
 
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#17
#17
This. It'd be a nice world if we could fund everything we desire, but budget constraints force the hand.

Also, the data I've seen shows small classroom sizes don't really seem to be advantageous unless the size is absurdly small (like 8 or something).

I can say, in my experience, smaller class sizes were beneficial.
 
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#18
#18
There is a proven inverse relationship between class size and student performance, and IIRC around 20 is the largest optimal class size.

Well, honest statisticians contend that they never "prove" anything. I'd be interested in seeing the data.
 
#19
#19
This. It'd be a nice world if we could fund everything we desire, but budget constraints force the hand.

Also, the data I've seen shows small classroom sizes don't really seem to be advantageous unless the size is absurdly small (like 8 or something).

Reduced class size alone won't necessarily improve outcomes, but there's no "silver bullet" when it comes to improving education. However, reduced class size has shown to be an important part of the bigger picture.
 
#20
#20
I can say, in my experience, smaller class sizes were beneficial.

Fair enough. From my experience I can't tell you which classes had 15 students and which ones had 25. It made no difference to me. The pace was always the same....slow.
 
#22
#22
Fair enough. From my experience I can't tell you which classes had 15 students and which ones had 25. It made no difference to me. The pace was always the same....slow.

I've had small class sizes be beneficial as well. There was a funding issue in Oregon when I was in high school that made national headlines because we had to end the school year a month early because of shortfalls.

I went through an experimental math tract called Interactive Math Program, and there were about 15 or so students in each of them as opposed to the 30-35 students in the regular math classes. Some of the kids in my class were D and C students, as well as a couple of kids who were taking AP classes and in the honors program. I remember the reduced class size allowing the teachers to tend more to those who were struggling while still allowing everybody to get adequate face time. I remember the stat we had that 100% of the students who finished that went on to get A's in calculus if they took it their senior year.

Best of all was the lack of time constraint; I think we've all taken a math class in HS or college in which the teacher had to skip a portion of the material to finish the class in time for the final. Every math class I took in HS finished with time to spare.
 
#23
#23
I've had small class sizes be beneficial as well. There was a funding issue in Oregon when I was in high school that made national headlines because we had to end the school year a month early because of shortfalls.

I went through an experimental math tract called Interactive Math Program, and there were about 15 or so students in each of them as opposed to the 30-35 students in the regular math classes. Some of the kids in my class were D and C students, as well as a couple of kids who were taking AP classes and in the honors program. I remember the reduced class size allowing the teachers to tend more to those who were struggling while still allowing everybody to get adequate face time. I remember the stat we had that 100% of the students who finished that went on to get A's in calculus if they took it their senior year.

Best of all was the lack of time constraint; I think we've all taken a math class in HS or college in which the teacher had to skip a portion of the material to finish the class in time for the final. Every math class I took in HS finished with time to spare.

don't they end the school year a month early annually so the kids can help out the Axmen?
 
#24
#24
It doesn't help when 20% of your budget is tied up in pension liabilities.
 
#25
#25
I have severe ADD.

This is why one-size-fits-all education is inherently at a disadvantage. No offense but maybe kids with severe ADD should be isolated to small classrooms while the others go through the 25-kid factory style classroom*. It probably won't happen cause they don't want to single them out, but I think it would result in a better learning experience for everyone.

*Or bigger even...half the kids go onto college with 500-person class rooms, and they do fine. I'm thinking AP students can handle 100 to a class.
 

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