Indoctrinating American school children with moslim viewpoint.

[fl0at]

fyp.

Yes that would separate the 2.

Beecher, I like you. I like your views and your comments, but I'm going to throw one at you that often gets thrown around at me, among others.

Have you read the Qur’an?

See, anytime I say something about the Bible, someone asks me "Have you read the Bible?"

As if me reading it would give me greater understanding than taking a few verses here and there...

Do you think if I read the Bible, I might glean more understanding than just reading a few verses?

The same might could be said for the Qur'an, though I've never read it...

 

[DC Vol]

Beecher, I like you. I like your views and your comments, but I'm going to throw one at you that often gets thrown around at me, among others.

Have you read the Qur’an?

See, anytime I say something about the Bible, someone asks me "Have you read the Bible?"

As if me reading it would give me greater understanding than taking a few verses here and there...

Do you think if I read the Bible, I might glean more understanding than just reading a few verses?

The might could be said for the Qur'an, though I've never read it...

Qur’an:9:5 - “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

I've read both, and I'll get flayed for saying this, but, I thought at their cores both texts were quite similar. The Qur'an goes off the deep end and that's an enormous point of deviation.

I'm nowhere close to being a scholar on either, just relaying a distinct impression I got when I had read both texts.

 

[fl0at]

I've read both, and I'll get flayed for saying this, but, I thought at their cores both texts were quite similar. The Qur'an goes off the deep end and that's an enormous point of deviation.

I'm nowhere close to being a scholar on either, just relaying a distinct impression I got when I had read both texts.

The Qur'an has some outrageous stuff, but so does the Bible. It is easy for most Christians to ignore Deuteronomy as dated, with the coming of the New Testament, but most Christians don't get up and walk out during sermons on Psalms or the Ten Commandments.

Christians are able to pick and choose, why not Muslims? Why is it that Muslims cannot decide to ignore verses like the one you submitted, but yet Christians are able to ignore verses about wearing clothes with more than one fabric type?

There is more to both of those books than insanity. The Qu'ran just has a bit more direct insanity, and much of it is ignored, save for extremists.

Comparing extremists, of any religion, to the norm is a bit... extreme.

 

[DC Vol]

The Qur'an has some outrageous stuff, but so does the Bible. It is easy for most Christians to ignore Deuteronomy as dated, with the coming of the New Testament, but most Christians don't get up and walk out during sermons on Psalms or the Ten Commandments.

Christians are able to pick and choose, why not Muslims? Why is it that Muslims cannot decide to ignore verses like the one you submitted, but yet Christians are able to ignore verses about wearing clothes with more than one fabric type?

There is more to both of those books than insanity. The Qu'ran just has a bit more direct insanity, and much of it is ignored, save for extremists.

Comparing extremists, of any religion, to the norm is a bit... extreme.

An enormous number of Muslims do ignore that text. With 1,500,000,000 in the world (estimated) does anyone really think that they're all devoted to the cause of killing and oppressing non-believers?

It's just easier to use the Qur'an as a tool of dominance when it contains verses like the one I listed.

 

[fl0at]

An enormous number of Muslims do ignore that text. With 1,500,000,000 in the world (estimated) does anyone really think that they're all devoted to the cause of killing and oppressing non-believers?

It's just easier to use the Qur'an as a tool of dominance when it contains verses like the one I listed.

I would say that they are definitely able to better recruit, using their preferred text. And we would too, if we didn't ignore much of our own insane scripture.

This day the LORD will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you down and cut off your head. And I will give the dead bodies of the host of the Philistines this day to the birds of the air and to the wild beasts of the earth, that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel,

Numbers also has some pretty interesting rhetoric toward Holy War.

You must destroy all the peoples the LORD your God gives over to you. Do not look on them with pity and do not serve their gods, for that will be a snare to you.

 

[BeecherVol]

Beecher, I like you. I like your views and your comments, but I'm going to throw one at you that often gets thrown around at me, among others.

Have you read the Qur’an?

See, anytime I say something about the Bible, someone asks me "Have you read the Bible?"

As if me reading it would give me greater understanding than taking a few verses here and there...

Do you think if I read the Bible, I might glean more understanding than just reading a few verses?

The same might could be said for the Qur'an, though I've never read it...

I have read parts, not a scholar by any means. There are some similarities in teachings. But there are some glaring differences as well. In my understanding of the Bible, Im not justified or rewarded for killing non converts. Basically I have nothing to gain in God's eyes for doing so, actually its quite the opposite. From my limited understanding of islam, that is very different.

One thing I have pointed out in similar threads is that fact that all muslims are not violent in their actions toward non believers or non muslims. That does not change the text/teachings however, some have decided to not follow that.

Thanks for the compliments.:hi:

 

[BeecherVol]

Beecher, I like you. I like your views and your comments, but I'm going to throw one at you that often gets thrown around at me, among others.

Have you read the Qur’an?

See, anytime I say something about the Bible, someone asks me "Have you read the Bible?"

As if me reading it would give me greater understanding than taking a few verses here and there...

Do you think if I read the Bible, I might glean more understanding than just reading a few verses?

The same might could be said for the Qur'an, though I've never read it...

It would.

As to some of the other comments on scriptures posted below, a lot of differences are revealed later in the Bible.

There are many that stick strictly to the OT the laws that it contained. That happened during the time of Christ as well.

I am not aware of a "new covenant" with man in the teachings of islam.

 

[fl0at]

I am not aware of a "new covenant" with man in the teachings of islam.

I don't think there has been one. Maybe a difference of opinion between Shia and Sunni, but nothing that comes close to a drastic new direction.

The New Testament effectively establishes Christianity. The coming of the Messiah, as it were. It resulted in a new Religion. Islam is unlikely to become a "new" religion, and it considers its prophet to have already arrived.

And isn't there something in the Bible about crowns or jewels or whatnot, for converting? I mean, it isn't virgins, but... jewels are nice, too.

 

[BeecherVol]

I don't think there has been one. Maybe a difference of opinion between Shia and Sunni, but nothing that comes close to a drastic new direction.

The New Testament effectively establishes Christianity. The coming of the Messiah, as it were. It resulted in a new Religion. Islam is unlikely to become a "new" religion, and it considers its prophet to have already arrived.

And isn't there something in the Bible about crowns or jewels or whatnot, for converting? I mean, it isn't virgins, but... jewels are nice, too.

lol:

Thats pretty good right there.

 

[BeecherVol]

I don't think there has been one. Maybe a difference of opinion between Shia and Sunni, but nothing that comes close to a drastic new direction.

The New Testament effectively establishes Christianity. The coming of the Messiah, as it were. It resulted in a new Religion. Islam is unlikely to become a "new" religion, and it considers its prophet to have already arrived.

And isn't there something in the Bible about crowns or jewels or whatnot, for converting? I mean, it isn't virgins, but... jewels are nice, too.

As to the first part, yes. It does not abolish/do away with the OT, it has its purpose but without the NT the Bible takes on a very different meaning.

Many Jews in the day got turned around on who Christ really was, and what his earthly purpose was.

 

[JayVols]

I would say that they are definitely able to better recruit, using their preferred text. And we would too, if we didn't ignore much of our own insane scripture.



Numbers also has some pretty interesting rhetoric toward Holy War.

Float,
I, too, respect you on here, but I have to side with Beecher (my VolNation bud). The difference is that the Old Testament is basically several books of history of the Jewish people. It is their story. The Christian religion is established in the New Testament. If we were still under the law of the Old Testament, no man is able to follow the law without fault. In short, what you referenced was a history narrative between God and his chosen people the Jews. They were not commands given to Christians who didn't come about until the New Testament. Jews hated and persecuted Christians in the New Testament because under the law, they were not Jews and therefore unclean/unworthy. The guidelines for Christians come from the teachings of Jesus who spoke of love, not hate or destruction. Prime example, the New Testament teaches that Jesus even asked for forgiveness to those who nailed him to the cross. Not a scholar by any means, but this is how I understand it. Christians are supposed to love everyone, even our enemies. Have a good one.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[VOLatile]

And isn't there something in the Bible about crowns or jewels or whatnot, for converting? I mean, it isn't virgins, but... jewels are nice, too.

Heaven...

 

[fl0at]

Float,
I, too, respect you on here, but I have to side with Beecher (my VolNation bud).

Luckily, I don't see a need to pick sides. My point was just that we can't condemn an entire group of people merely because their book of choice has some insanity within. Especially when ours does as well.

Beecher made a point to that effect as well, and echoed what most agree with, mainly that the NT changed much of our perception, and that the Qu'ran has some rather off the deep end verses.

But like us, many Muslims are able to disavow parts of their scripture that really have no place in today's world. Much the same as Christians do away with some of their religion's antiquated views.

I'll read the rest when I get off this 2" screen. Jumped on to say I think I saw Beecher's twin in Walmart, rocking overalls and a Stanley colored beanie/stocking cap.

Whatcha doin in Memphis Beecher? Haha.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[BeecherVol]

Float,
I, too, respect you on here, but I have to side with Beecher (my VolNation bud). The difference is that the Old Testament is basically several books of history of the Jewish people. It is their story. The Christian religion is established in the New Testament. If we were still under the law of the Old Testament, no man is able to follow the law without fault. In short, what you referenced was a history narrative between God and his chosen people the Jews. They were not commands given to Christians who didn't come about until the New Testament. Jews hated and persecuted Christians in the New Testament because under the law, they were not Jews and therefore unclean/unworthy. The guidelines for Christians come from the teachings of Jesus who spoke of love, not hate or destruction. Prime example, the New Testament teaches that Jesus even asked for forgiveness to those who nailed him to the cross. Not a scholar by any means, but this is how I understand it. Christians are supposed to love everyone, even our enemies. Have a good one.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Well put JV. You cleaned it up a little better than me.

 

[BeecherVol]

Luckily, I don't see a need to pick sides. My point was just that we can't condemn an entire group of people merely because their book of choice has some insanity within. Especially when ours does as well.

Beecher made a point to that effect as well, and echoed what most agree with, mainly that the NT changed much of our perception, and that the Qu'ran has some rather off the deep end verses.

But like us, many Muslims are able to disavow parts of their scripture that really have no place in today's world. Much the same as Christians do away with some of their religion's antiquated views.

I'll read the rest when I get off this 2" screen. Jumped on to say I think I saw Beecher's twin in Walmart, rocking overalls and a Stanley colored beanie/stocking cap.

Whatcha doin in Memphis Beecher? Haha.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

I was down there 3 times in the last couple months working.

Must have left an impression.:hi:

 

[Cartervol]

You can pass it off any way you like as not a big deal, but the religion is gaining a foothold. Only bad things will come of it eventually when it's so widespread it poses a real threat. I'm not sure it's that far away really. This country is ran by morons.

 

[fl0at]

You can pass it off any way you like as not a big deal, but the religion is gaining a foothold.

Does that speak more of Islam or less of Christianity? Nobody is forcing conversion, so if the religion is gaining a foothold, then it must be offering something that Christianity isn't. That, or people are becoming disheartened by Christianity. Or both.

I would think that the best way to expose Islam would be to bring it to the forefront, instead of burying it and telling people to ignore it.

A little bit of consolidation in Christianity wouldn't be a bad thing, either. There are so many disciplines and so many translations of the Bible that people might just be tired of a religion that is so at war with itself.

Jay, nicely put explanation.

 

[BeecherVol]

Does that speak more of Islam or less of Christianity? Nobody is forcing conversion, so if the religion is gaining a foothold, then it must be offering something that Christianity isn't. That, or people are becoming disheartened by Christianity. Or both.

I would think that the best way to expose Islam would be to bring it to the forefront, instead of burying it and telling people to ignore it.

A little bit of consolidation in Christianity wouldn't be a bad thing, either. There are so many disciplines and so many translations of the Bible that people might just be tired of a religion that is so at war with itself.

Jay, nicely put explanation.

It wouldn't, but the Bible speaks of those that falsely profess, its gonna happen. It warns believers of such.

 

[Cartervol]

Does that speak more of Islam or less of Christianity? Nobody is forcing conversion, so if the religion is gaining a foothold, then it must be offering something that Christianity isn't. That, or people are becoming disheartened by Christianity. Or both.

I would think that the best way to expose Islam would be to bring it to the forefront, instead of burying it and telling people to ignore it.

A little bit of consolidation in Christianity wouldn't be a bad thing, either. There are so many disciplines and so many translations of the Bible that people might just be tired of a religion that is so at war with itself.

Jay, nicely put explanation.

Then they should practice said religion in a country founded on it, this one isn't. A country that loses it's identity is a country headed for trouble. Too much diversity can be bad and i think we're just about there.

 

[BeecherVol]

Does that speak more of Islam or less of Christianity? Nobody is forcing conversion, so if the religion is gaining a foothold, then it must be offering something that Christianity isn't. That, or people are becoming disheartened by Christianity. Or both.

I would think that the best way to expose Islam would be to bring it to the forefront, instead of burying it and telling people to ignore it.

A little bit of consolidation in Christianity wouldn't be a bad thing, either. There are so many disciplines and so many translations of the Bible that people might just be tired of a religion that is so at war with itself.

Jay, nicely put explanation.

Not sure I agree with that.

 

[JayVols]

Does that speak more of Islam or less of Christianity? Nobody is forcing conversion, so if the religion is gaining a foothold, then it must be offering something that Christianity isn't. That, or people are becoming disheartened by Christianity. Or both.

I would think that the best way to expose Islam would be to bring it to the forefront, instead of burying it and telling people to ignore it.

A little bit of consolidation in Christianity wouldn't be a bad thing, either. There are so many disciplines and so many translations of the Bible that people might just be tired of a religion that is so at war with itself.

Jay, nicely put explanation.

Like I said, Float, I am no scholar or saint. This is just where my feeble studies have taken me.

You bring up a good point about quarreling Christians. We let too many petty disagreements come between us. This paints Christians in a negative light to our peers. Once again, no saint here, but the example we lead greatly influences perception. If a Christian professes one thing then does the opposite, well we all know what happens in respect to how people view us. If we talk love and show malice, our words are hollow.
One act of hypocracy can destroy a lifetime's work.

On a side note, the commercialization of Christianity (health and wealth preachers) paint unrealistic expectations. Contrary to what these folks preach, we don't become immune to problems. Speaking only for me, I just have a 'support system' to help me endure my problems. Later, good sir.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[gsvol]

If Moslem/Moslim (you tend to alternate) are the correct journalistic terms, then why do the majority of media outlets use Muslim?

Oh wait, that was a definition that was nearly 20 years old!

You dinosaur.

Islam has been at war with all the rest of civilization for 1400 years and continues to be so.

Not one day passes that someone isn't killed to satisfy the desires of the mythical allah or the teachings of the false prophet muhammed.

Is that current enough for you?

Many Americans will fawn over the Moose slims but eventually we will be warring with them right here on our own soil because we wrongly believe they are a peaceful religion.

Most don't seem to notice that islam has delared war upon America.

Anyone who believes islam is a peaceful religion, has ever been a peaceful religion or will ever be a peaceful religion, is just to ignorant for intelligent discourse.

Two nations under Islamic duress -- Serbia and Israel
(A must read aticle)

Under relentless U.S State Department pressure, the Israeli government of Prime Minister Netanyahu is enduring the same attempt at the dismemberment of its biblical, ancestral, aboriginal, spiritual and physical Jewish heartland as the brave and ill served Serbian people suffered with the loss of their beloved Kosovo.

Although Serbs living in enclaves within Kosovo are still holding on from being competely driven from their homes, the price of creating a Muslim Palestinian state is the expulsion — the ethnic cleansing — of all Jews from its proposed territory. In other words, it is even worse for the Jews as a new Arab state called Palestine will be judenrein — the forcible removal of Jewish villages and their inhabitants. And this unthinkable outrage of ethnic cleansing will be sanctioned by President Obama and the immoral United Nations under cover of the misnamed peace process. Jordan is historically in possession of nearly 80% of Mandatory Palestine and its population is over 75% Palestinian. There already thus exists a de facto Palestine. Israel is a mere 40 miles wide from the Mediterranean Sea to the River Jordan and it is within this narrow strip of land that a new Arab and Islamic state would be carved from the biblical Jewish heartland. the world demands that Israel returns to the highly vulnerable armistice lines that existed before June 5, 1967 when it was only nine miles wide at its most populous region.

These are the striking similarities between the Serbs and the Jews. Serbia originally lost its province of Kosovo after being defeated in battle by the Muslim Turks at the Field of Blackbirds in June, 1389. Like the Jews, who in their 2,000 years of exile dreamed of restoring their ancient homeland and their holy city of Jerusalem from alien conquerors after losing it to the Romans, so too the Serbs dreamed of Kosovo and wove their folk music and national identity around the lost Serbian heartland. Kosovo was partially restored to Serbia but it was not to be for long. Judea and Samaria was liberated by Israel in its defensive 1967 Six Day War. But the world is coming against Israel and in 2011 will bring terrible pressure upon the Jewish state to again abandon its very biblical and ancestral heartland and give it to a terrorist and Islamic state to be called Palestine.

During the late 1990s when President Clinton and his Secretary of State, Madeline Albright, launched a disgraceful war against the Serbs, the Serbian Deputy Prime Minister, Draskovitch said of Kosovo: "Our faith was born there, as was our language, our nationhood, our pride. It is incumbent upon us to defend Kosovo, even if we all die."

His words were uttered as American bombers, repainted in NATO colors, bombed Serbia for several months inflicting some 3,000 civilian deaths and destroying all the bridges over the Danube River in Belgrade. This was not America's finest hour but it is now largely dead and buried by the mainstream media.

The same mainstream media rarely, if ever, tells us about Serbia's passion during the many centuries leading up to the present and latest shameful act of the West. When Serbia was part of Yugoslavia, it was the Serbs who fought alone and unaided against the German divisions during World War 2; fighting them to a standstill. No other people alone in occupied Europe achieved that remarkable and heroic feat.

Why Do People Say Muslim Now Instead of Moslem?


His usage has nothing to do with usage of the day, and everything to do with the above.

It is definitely playground insults.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand 'moslem' is the correct term considering the barbaric history of islamic jihad.

From not so long ago:

During our journey toward the hill of Javor, near Srebrenica and Ozren, all the Serbian villages which we came across were wholly massacred. In the villages between Vlasenica and Kladanj we discovered children who had been impaled upon stakes, their small limbs still distorted by pain, resembling insects stuck through by pins.

The above quote is from:
"Assassins au nom de Dieu"
Author: Herve Lauriere
Paris, 1951, page 58

Then Clinton used the big lie of Srebenica to unleash a bombing attack that exceeded Vietnam against a traditional ally.

The moslems claimed the Serbian army killed 8,000 mujhadeen but no one has ever produced those bodies.

Those jihadists from all over the world of islam were cutting the throats and lopping off the heads of defenseless Serbian Christians, particularly the older people who couldn't defend themselves, being the cowards moslems are.

The Serbian Army advanced into Bosnia to protect those victimised people, eye witnesses saw the moslem murders retreat by night rather than fight an armed enemy and at least 3,000 of those claimed to have been killed have voted in Bosnain elections since then since the islamic puppet we installed as head of the Bosnian government offered them citizenship, the others are probably still fighting us in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I've read both, and I'll get flayed for saying this, but, I thought at their cores both texts were quite similar. The Qur'an goes off the deep end and that's an enormous point of deviation.

I'm nowhere close to being a scholar on either, just relaying a distinct impression I got when I had read both texts.

Saying the core of the Gospel of Jesus and the teachings of Muhammed are quite similar is what I call going off the deep end!!

I have an open mind though, would you care to list the similarities??

An enormous number of Muslims do ignore that text. With 1,500,000,000 in the world (estimated) does anyone really think that they're all devoted to the cause of killing and oppressing non-believers?

It's just easier to use the Qur'an as a tool of dominance when it contains verses like the one I listed.

There are plenty more that advocate violence, lying for the purpose of deception and the text as a whole always advocates for world domination through whatever means are available.

The one in the White House is the main one in question.

Obama Praises ?Teaching Tolerance for Islam,? Islamic Charter Schools - WELL REGULATED AMERICAN MILITIAS !

President Obama praised this media event for capturing young imaginations by “teaching tolerance for Islam” at his recent Washington, D.C. Presidential Summit speech.

 

[IPorange]

I think you meant "too ignorant"

 

[gsvol]

I don't think there has been one. Maybe a difference of opinion between Shia and Sunni, but nothing that comes close to a drastic new direction.

The New Testament effectively establishes Christianity. The coming of the Messiah, as it were. It resulted in a new Religion. Islam is unlikely to become a "new" religion, and it considers its prophet to have already arrived.

And isn't there something in the Bible about crowns or jewels or whatnot, for converting? I mean, it isn't virgins, but... jewels are nice, too.

Moslems kill 100 moslems for every Christian they kill, violent action, jihad is a basic tenet of islam and there is no getting around that.

There has been a war going on within islam for 1,400 years yet their dogma divides the world into to spheres, the world of submission and the world of war and they call us the world of war, meaning they should make war upon us.

BTW, all the prophets of Israel prophesied of Jesus.

Nowhere is any prophesy ever written about muhammed except when Jesus said to beware of false prophets.

Luckily, I don't see a need to pick sides. My point was just that we can't condemn an entire group of people merely because their book of choice has some insanity within. Especially when ours does as well.

Beecher made a point to that effect as well, and echoed what most agree with, mainly that the NT changed much of our perception, and that the Qu'ran has some rather off the deep end verses.

But like us, many Muslims are able to disavow parts of their scripture that really have no place in today's world. Much the same as Christians do away with some of their religion's antiquated views.

I'll read the rest when I get off this 2" screen. Jumped on to say I think I saw Beecher's twin in Walmart, rocking overalls and a Stanley colored beanie/stocking cap.

Whatcha doin in Memphis Beecher? Haha.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

We can condemn an evil screed though.

Name something that Jesus said that is now antiquated.

You can pass it off any way you like as not a big deal, but the religion is gaining a foothold. Only bad things will come of it eventually when it's so widespread it poses a real threat. I'm not sure it's that far away really. This country is ran by morons.

Not only gaining a foothold, it is making huge advancements in America and already is bragging of conquering Europe without even firing a shot.

Does that speak more of Islam or less of Christianity? Nobody is forcing conversion, so if the religion is gaining a foothold, then it must be offering something that Christianity isn't. That, or people are becoming disheartened by Christianity. Or both.

I would think that the best way to expose Islam would be to bring it to the forefront, instead of burying it and telling people to ignore it.

A little bit of consolidation in Christianity wouldn't be a bad thing, either. There are so many disciplines and so many translations of the Bible that people might just be tired of a religion that is so at war with itself.

Jay, nicely put explanation.

Some things islam offers that Christianity doesn't.

In their prison ministry pedophiles are recruited using the example of muhammed who married a girl who was six years old, so these imprisoned pedophiles wouldn't be guilty if they were moslem.

Another target set of prison inmates are violent offenders and they are told their violence might not be wrong if they had the right motivation.

Racism is used as another recruiting tool, whites are blamed for slavery while ignoring islams history of slavery.

Remember the words of Cassius Clay aka Muhhamed Ali, 'I don't want to be named after no white man,' even though he was named after arguably one of the men most responsible for ending slavery in America while the moslems still do have black African slaves and in Arabic the word for slave and a black are the same and muhammed was a slave owner, promoted the taking of slaves and islam has never condemned the practice.

On the most vile sort of racist rhetoric ever espoused on Earth by the black muslims, Clay gave up a name of one of the greatest anti-slavery persons in history and took up the name of one who brought about more slavery than any other man, muhammed.

All because of a blatently racist doctrine.

It wouldn't, but the Bible speaks of those that falsely profess, its gonna happen. It warns believers of such.

Jesus said beware of false prophets and if muhammed wasn't just that then who might be?

 

[RhodeIslandVol]

I'll be honest--not a big fan of Muslims.