Inflation in your World

#352
#352
hUTch2002 said:
Good deal. Seems you know what you’re doing. Good luck Hog!
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I hope so. It’ll be a little more expensive on the front end but if we do well managing loss it will pay off in year 4-5. Just can’t deal with the open market anymore, I think 20-30% increases will be the norm over the next few years.
 
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#353
#353
McDad said:
There are many factors but all have the common denominator of cost. Labor for my property renovations are almost 2x higher than 5 years ago. Home products are more expensive, too.

So, body shops should be similar. Labor costs more, supplies costs more, replacing a totaled vehicle costs a lot more.
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I work for a car manufacturer and you would be astonished what parts cost the manufacturer for warranty repairs and insurance companies for accidents. We’ve replaced EV batteries that cost more than the value of the car. On a separate note there’s currently 5 homes listed for sale online in Bristol Tennessee. The rest are for a subdivision under construction.
 
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#354
#354
hog88 said:
I hope so. It’ll be a little more expensive on the front end but if we do well managing loss it will pay off in year 4-5. Just can’t deal with the open market anymore, I think 20-30% increases will be the norm over the next few years.
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You got it. It’s like the stock market. Some years you win and others you don’t but in the long run you should save money. The lower your claims the faster you save money.

Property should ease up a bit this year but you’re definitely looking at a rate increase environment for the foreseeable future. How much of an increase is hard to say. Auto and Umbrella will continue to see strong increases. The old days of hard and soft markets are over though. I’ve been saying that for several years now and it’s true. The insurance industry has changed.
 
#355
#355
volbound1700 said:
Curious about the insurance and it is true, I am wondering if a part of that is the nation having to pay for all the insurance damages from riots (such as 2020 BLM) to stores, etc. and the constant crime. The Insurance Companies have to make their money back somewhere.

Definitely think that a lot has to do with the National Debt and you can think W Bush, Obama, Trump, AND Biden all equally for that.
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I’m sure it will play a role but from a Property perspective it’s more weather-driven. From 1979-2001 there were 0 years over $60B in global property losses. Since then there’s been 14, including 6 over $100B and 3 over $140B.
 
#357
#357
hog88 said:
Workmens comp is also going through the roof. All of that eventually gets passed down to the consumer.
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Now that’s odd if you’re based in TN with most or all of your payroll in TN. Rates have been falling in TN for years. Now if you have significant payroll in other states, mod or loss issues then maybe but even then I’ve not seen any WC go through the roof in a long time. The largest increase I’ve seen on WC over the last few years is 12% and that was a ridiculous outlier that I moved elsewhere. Everything else has been no worse than a 3% rate increase. I know everyone thinks you can just hit the easy button and out pops insurance quotes but commercial insurance, if done properly, is quite complicated. Of course people always think other people’s jobs are easier than they are. My point is, it’s far too complicated to make broad brush statements that apply to everyone. For example, your total payroll could stay the same but you shift more into a higher rated class. That will certainly lead to an increase. So there might be a reason yours is going up so much but most WC rates are flat or decreasing.

One thing I’ll tell everyone is to watch your premium audits. I catch mistakes on almost all of them. People in the wrong classes, bonuses not excluded (TN is 1 of only 3 states that allow bonus exclusions on WC), subcontractor certs missed (the subcontractor cost is added as payroll to the audit) and more.
 
#358
#358
hUTch2002 said:
Sorry, that’s incorrect. Litigation financing, social inflation and more are what’s driving up awards. It’s not medical costs at all. I won’t say that has no effect as it obviously does but if it were just med costs then awards would be up 15-20% or so, not what we’re seeing.
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Explain how litigation financing drives up awards.

Damages in an auto accident case for personal injury are essentially
1. Lost wages
2. Past Medicals
3. Future Medicals
4. Pain and Suffering/Emotional Distress

Pain and suffering awards tend to be a function of medical costs.
 
#359
#359
ClearwaterVol said:
Explain how litigation financing drives up awards.

Damages in an auto accident case for personal injury are essentially
1. Lost wages
2. Past Medicals
3. Future Medicals
4. Pain and Suffering/Emotional Distress

Pain and suffering awards tend to be a function of medical costs.
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Simple. Investors are putting money into a case, meaning more resources are available to use, whether that be expert witnesses, better lawyers, or something else.

And how do you quantify number, what “feels” right? You’re completely discounting the fact that some juries are there to punish corporations. These nuclear verdicts are happening for a reason. You’re also ignoring punitive damages.
 
#360
#360
hog88 said:
Between auto, property and GL our last renewal was touching 1/2 million. Pretty sure this year it’s gonna be a whole lot more so we’re looking at a captive.
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I just sat through a meeting with a captive. Pretty interesting stuff, but the bulk of my accounts are not large enough for a captive to be viable.
 
#361
#361
hog88 said:
I hope so. It’ll be a little more expensive on the front end but if we do well managing loss it will pay off in year 4-5. Just can’t deal with the open market anymore, I think 20-30% increases will be the norm over the next few years.
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I’m not sure it will continue at the current clip that long. Companies across the board are taking pretty drastic measures to get their bottom lines and reserves where they need to be.
My customers in general have said they expected rates to rise just as the cost of their services have.
The article in the link does a good job explaining what’s going on with property insurance and it’s essentially the same for auto.
www.travelers.com

6 Forces Driving Commercial Property Insurance Costs

The market for commercial property insurance continues to be challenging. Learn about several factors contributing to increasing premium for commercial property coverage.
www.travelers.com
 
#362
#362
hUTch2002 said:
Simple. Investors are putting money into a case, meaning more resources are available to use, whether that be expert witnesses, better lawyers, or something else.

And how do you quantify number, what “feels” right? You’re completely discounting the fact that some juries are there to punish corporations. These nuclear verdicts are happening for a reason. You’re also ignoring punitive damages.
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Very few cases are permitted, at least in Florida, are permitted to go forward on a punitives claim. Very specific things must be found in order to present a punitive damages claim.

The corporations have access to the same funds that plaintiffs lawyers have. They hire big boy law firms that will hire the same experts accessible by plaintiff firms.

It sounds like your real gripe is with mass tort litigation and perhaps your real gripe should actually be massive corporations making decisions to cheat customers out of money or hiding the fact a product is defective and dangerous.
 
#364
#364
ClearwaterVol said:
Very few cases are permitted, at least in Florida, are permitted to go forward on a punitives claim. Very specific things must be found in order to present a punitive damages claim.

The corporations have access to the same funds that plaintiffs lawyers have. They hire big boy law firms that will hire the same experts accessible by plaintiff firms.

It sounds like your real gripe is with mass tort litigation and perhaps your real gripe should actually be massive corporations making decisions to cheat customers out of money or hiding the fact a product is defective and dangerous.
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Huh? I’m not talking about product defect claims at all. Look at the awards against trucking companies, it’s absolutely ludicrous. And I’m sorry but no death is worth $200M+ unless they’re earning millions a year, which is not true in these cases that are getting those kinds of awards. Werner in 2018 or 19 was on a Texas interstate when a car lost control on icy roads, crossed center and hit the truck. The jury awards $80M or so because the truck, who stayed in their lane and was driving below the speed limit, supposedly shouldn’t have been on the road. Dumb crap like this is not only killing the insurance industry but it’s also driving up costs for everyone. There are tons of examples of stupid crap like this. GEICO was hit with $5M because people had sex in a car insured by GEICO. WTF? Luckily that was overturned on appeal although I’m sure it will be appealed again. Hell, I was a witness in a case where a guy won $3M claiming he should have been sold a different type of insurance for which he wasn’t eligible and was told he wasn’t eligible by the company that employed him. The jury said they should have made even more effort to tell him he wasn’t eligible even though the company noticed both he and his wife. What’s even more comical is he wasn’t even hurt, certainly not to the tune of $3M dollars. He basically twisted his ankle. The 4 prior lawyers he tried all saw through his BS but he was able to spend tons of time and money once he found a guy who was an absolute clown to represent him. Just because the corner you play in doesn’t have these kinds of things happen doesn’t mean they don’t happen. I have tons more examples too. Cracker Barrell, Spectrum, etc.
 
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#365
#365
hUTch2002 said:
Huh? I’m not talking about product defect claims at all. Look at the awards against trucking companies, it’s absolutely ludicrous. And I’m sorry but no death is worth $200M+ unless they’re earning millions a year, which is not true in these cases that are getting those kinds of awards. Werner in 2018 or 19 was on a Texas interstate when a car lost control on icy roads, crossed center and hit the truck. The jury awards $80M or so because the truck, who stayed in their lane and was driving below the speed limit, supposedly shouldn’t have been on the road. Dumb crap like this is not only killing the insurance industry but it’s also driving up costs for everyone. There are tons of examples of stupid crap like this. GEICO was hit with $5M because people had sex in a car insured by GEICO. WTF? Luckily that was overturned on appeal although I’m sure it will be appealed again. Hell, I was a witness in a case where a guy won $3M claiming he should have been sold a different type of insurance for which he wasn’t eligible and was told he wasn’t eligible by the company that employed him. The jury said they should have made even more effort to tell him he wasn’t eligible even though the company noticed both he and his wife. What’s even more comical is he wasn’t even hurt, certainly not to the tune of $3M dollars. He basically twisted his ankle. The 4 prior lawyers he tried all saw through his BS but he was able to spend tons of time and money once he found a guy who was an absolute clown to represent him. Just because the corner you play in doesn’t have these kinds of things happen doesn’t mean they don’t happen. I have tons more examples too. Cracker Barrell, Spectrum, etc.
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I have tons of examples of the opposite occurring.

Trucking Case
I’m not sure because I haven’t done research into Texas law but such a result wouldn’t haves occurred in Florida because the parties causing the accident relatives fault would have been determined by the jury and each party would have only paid their portions of fault. That cases only happened in Texas because the plaintiff had no fault, as he was the passenger. Had he been the driver he likely would have been found at over 51% at fault barring his claim.

Either way that doesn’t have crap to do with litigation funding.
 
#366
#366
ClearwaterVol said:
I have tons of examples of the opposite occurring.

Trucking Case
I’m not sure because I haven’t done research into Texas law but such a result wouldn’t haves occurred in Florida because the parties causing the accident relatives fault would have been determined by the jury and each party would have only paid their portions of fault. That cases only happened in Texas because the plaintiff had no fault, as he was the passenger. Had he been the driver he likely would have been found at over 51% at fault barring his claim.

Either way that doesn’t have crap to do with litigation funding.
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I’m talking bigger picture than that one little item that’s apparently stuck in your brain.
 
#368
#368
ClearwaterVol said:
Provide stats that back that up on a national level and not just your cherry picked cases.
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Have you never heard of nuclear verdicts? There are tons of articles out there about them and what’s driving them. They’re not difficult to find at all if you put forth any effort. You’re dug in and I’m dug in so it doesn’t matter. There’s a reason commercial insurance costs have been going up so much the last few years.
 
#369
#369
hUTch2002 said:
Have you never heard of nuclear verdicts? There are tons of articles out there about them and what’s driving them. They’re not difficult to find at all if you put forth any effort. You’re dug in and I’m dug in so it doesn’t matter. There’s a reason commercial insurance costs have been going up so much the last few years.
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You are still cherry picking verdicts. Provide the overall numbers and not just your cherry picking of outliers.
 
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