Instead of where all this money is going how about debating where it is coming from??

[droski]

Booms and busts have been created by central banking for centuries, so have wars been created.

Treasury note rates have little if anything to do with I'm talking about.

so if there wasn't a central bank we wouldn't have booms and busts?

Than what are you talking about?

 

[gsvol]

so if there wasn't a central bank we wouldn't have booms and busts?

Yes.

Than what are you talking about?

I'm talking about following the guidelines set down in the great American Constitution rather than making us subservient to the international money lenders.

At that time, (1863) England was throwing into jail those who could not pay their debts. They therefore asked Franklin how he could explain the remarkable prosperity of the New England Colonies. Franklin replied:

"That is simple. In the Colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay no one."


"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws."
-- Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

"By this means government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people, and not one man in a million will detect the theft."
-- British Lord John Maynard Keynes (the father of 'Keynesian Economics' which our nation now endures) in his book "THE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES OF THE PEACE" (1920).

 

[jdsa]

Yes.

At that time, (1863) England was throwing into jail those who could not pay their debts. They therefore asked Franklin how he could explain the remarkable prosperity of the New England Colonies. Franklin replied:

Our system of bankruptcy does nothing but buouy entrepreneurialism. Europeans have a more severe view of debt, and it hinders growth and innovation over there. Of course, businnesses have to pay for this privelege with higher interest rates on their debt, but the financiers have built models to deal with that problem.

The bankruptcy statutes were reformed in '05 to prevent people with sufficient income from being able to obtain bky protection, too.

Counterintuitively, being lenient with debtors helps us much more than it hinders us.

 

[SWIL]

How do we get more money to begin with??

Short answer: China and Japan.

 

[gsvol]

Short answer: China and Japan.

By way of the world central banking mobius loop??

Our system of bankruptcy does nothing but buouy entrepreneurialism. Europeans have a more severe view of debt, and it hinders growth and innovation over there. Of course, businnesses have to pay for this privelege with higher interest rates on their debt, but the financiers have built models to deal with that problem.

The bankruptcy statutes were reformed in '05 to prevent people with sufficient income from being able to obtain bky protection, too.

Counterintuitively, being lenient with debtors helps us much more than it hinders us.

So then, how will we ever pay off the $10 trillion national debt?

Clue one for you, it is never going to happen until the federal reserve act is repealed..

 

[droski]

So then, how will we ever pay off the $10 trillion national debt?

Clue one for you, it is never going to happen until the federal reserve act is repealed..

do you understand how bonds work? if you balanced the budget it would get paid off. but there is nothing wrong with a little debt.

 

[gsvol]

do you understand how bonds work? if you balanced the budget it would get paid off. but there is nothing wrong with a little debt.

Yes I do understand how bonds work.

From all your replies it is amply evident that you don't understand a word I've said.

You are just flat wrong on that.

If we balanced the budget that would mean we wouldn't have to borrow more, it doesn't mean the national debt would be paid. You didn't major in mathematics did you?

If we paid off the national debt there wouldn't be any money and we would still owe.

$10 trillion isn't a little debt BTW, that's about $33,333 per citizen.

 

[droski]

what do you do for a living oh finance expert?

obviously paying off the debt maturities would be factored into the budget. and $33,333 per citizen paying an interest rate of 3% is not a lot of money at all.

 

[gsvol]

what do you do for a living oh finance expert?

Nunya!!! Why the snide remark??? Unable to intelligently debate the topic???

I will say this much, the last time I talked to a bond house, I talked to the owner of the biggest bond house in this state and we talked for about 45 minutes. I've known him for over thirty years. I made no claim of being a financial expert, I do however know a few people I can call if I want to talk to a financial expert.

Furthermore, you obviously are not a financial expert.

obviously paying off the debt maturities would be factored into the budget. and $33,333 per citizen paying an interest rate of 3% is not a lot of money at all.

A thousand a year for every citizen is akin to shearing a flock of sheep.

I don't know about your calculator but mine says 3% of 10 trillion is 300 billion. That may not be much money to you but it seems like quite a bit to me.

You have to also understand that you pay forever and so do you grandchildren and their grandchildren too.

Maybe you should reread the whole thread and that way we could discuss the topic rather than getting off on some tangent that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[droski]

wow talked to him for 45 minutes. amazing. you put me in my place.

300 billion is nothing. do you realize how large the US economy is?

 

[gsvol]

wow talked to him for 45 minutes. amazing. you put me in my place.

300 billion is nothing. do you realize how large the US economy is?

I wasn't trying to put you anywhere but on the other hand don't see the point of your trying to belittle me.

I'm not talking about numbers, I'm talking about a principle?

Here is some material you can read on the topic.

The verdict of history must be that the Federal Reserve has utterly failed to deliver on these promises.

Remarks in Congress, 1934

What do we have now for a Secretary of the Treasury???

A yes man for the Federal Reserve who just received a half million dollar bonus.



3 WAYS TO ABOLISH THE FED AND ISSUE MONEY PER THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8:

* Buy back the FED and have the U.S. Government collect all profits.

* Abolish the FED by printing real U.S. dollars as President Kennedy attempted (Executive Order 11.110, 1963) (Reference 4).

* Request your county/state to use their Constitutional powers to abolish the FED. This is the BEST SOLUTION.

Nearly half the states are attempting or considering this action.

Congress has had 96 years to follow the Constitution, and has refused to abolish the illegal FED. The state/county effort is working faster than any other method.
--------------------------

"To expose a 15 Trillion dollar ripoff of the American people by the stockholders of the 1000
largest corporations over the last 100 years will be a tall order of business." -- Buckminster Fuller

"Every circulating Federal Reserve Note represents a one dollar debt to the Federal Reserve system." -- Money Facts, House Banking and Currency Committee

"...the increase in the assets of the Federal Reserve banks from 143 million dollars in 1913 to 45 billion dollars in 1949 went directly to the private stockholders of the federal reserve banks." --
Eustace Mullins

"Should government refrain from regulation (taxation), the worthlessness of the money becomes apparent and the fraud can no longer be concealed." --
John Maynard Keynes,
"Consequences of Peace."

"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve.

We are absolutely without a permanent money system....

It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon.

It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon."
--Robert H. Hamphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank

"The Federal Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities..." --
Lewis vs. United States 9th Circuit 1992

"The Federal Reserve bank buys government bonds without one penny..." --
Congressman Wright Patman, Congressional Record, Sept 30, 1941

"I have never seen more Senators express discontent with their jobs....I think the major cause is that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices in doing something terrible and unforgiveable to our wonderful country. Deep down in our heart, we know that we have given our children a legacy of bankruptcy. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected." -- John Danforth (R-Mo)

 

[gsvol]

the 10 year treasury is at 2.7%. that is about as close as borrowing for free as it gets.

No interest at all is better and would be constitutional.

 

[rjd970]

Furthermore, you obviously are not a financial expert.

Probably one of the most uninformed statements ever made on this site.

 

[gsvol]

Probably one of the most uninformed statements ever made on this site.

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
Winston Churchill

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
Winston Churchill

One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!
Winston Churchill

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill

Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.
Winston Churchill

Study history, study history. In history lies all the secrets of statecraft.
Winston Churchill

The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you can see.
Winston Churchill

It is a fine thing to be honest, but it is also very important to be right.
Winston Churchill

All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
Winston Churchill

Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed.
Winston Churchill

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Winston Churchill

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
Winston Churchill

Do not let spacious plans for a new world divert your energies from saving what is left of the old.
Winston Churchill

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
Winston Churchill

Some rather pithy statements.

I'm not particularly a Churchill fan, the fly in the ointment for me is the Wilson/Churchill conspiracy in the Lusitania incident.

An official inquiry was opened in England and the Lord who presided, in later years answered a reporters question by saying; "It was a damned dirty business."

Politics is not a game. It is an earnest business.
Winston Churchill


Oh wait rjd, I thought you said one of the most 'informed' statements instead of most 'uninformed' statements!!

If I were you I would fire whoever is informing me because he is obviously totally incompetent.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Winston Churchill

 

[HawaiiVol]

A friend of mine pointed me to Zeitgeist - The Movie when we were talking about economic stuff the other day.

Might shed some light on how the system works.

edit: The last 45 minutes of Zeitgeist and the entirety of Zeitgeist:Addendum goes into the workings of the Reserve. The 1st hour and 15 minutes of Zeitgest will probably offend some beliefs.

 

[gsvol]

A friend of mine pointed me to Zeitgeist - The Movie when we were talking about economic stuff the other day.

Might shed some light on how the system works.

edit: The last 45 minutes of Zeitgeist and the entirety of Zeitgeist:Addendum goes into the workings of the Reserve. The 1st hour and 15 minutes of Zeitgest will probably offend some beliefs.

In 1964, the House Committee on Banking and Currency, Subcommittee on Domestic Finance, at the second session of the 88th Congress, put out a study entitled Money Facts which contains a good description of what the FED is: "The Federal Reserve is a total money-making machine. It can issue money or checks. And it never has a problem of making its checks good because it can obtain the $5 and $10 bills necessary to cover its check simply by asking the Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving to print them".

Ten days before his assassination, President John Fitzgerald Kennedy allegedly said:

"The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizen of this plight."


Did you know that the FED is the only for-profit corporation in America that is exempt from both federal and state taxes? The FED takes in about one trillion dollars per year tax free!

When was the income tax created? If you guessed 1913, the same year that the FED was created, you get a gold star. Coincidence? What are the odds? If you are going to use the FED to create debt, who is going to repay that debt? The income tax was created to complete the illusion that real money had been lent and therefore real money had to be repaid. And you thought Houdini was good.

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution specifically says that Congress is the only body that can "coin money and regulate the value thereof." The US Constitution has never been amended to allow anyone other than Congress to coin and regulate currency.

Ask your representative, in light of that information, how it is possible for the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and the Federal Reserve Bank that it created, to be constitutional.

 

[HawaiiVol]

In 1964, the House Committee on Banking and Currency, Subcommittee on Domestic Finance, at the second session of the 88th Congress, put out a study entitled Money Facts which contains a good description of what the FED is: "The Federal Reserve is a total money-making machine. It can issue money or checks. And it never has a problem of making its checks good because it can obtain the $5 and $10 bills necessary to cover its check simply by asking the Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving to print them".

Ten days before his assassination, President John Fitzgerald Kennedy allegedly said:

"The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizen of this plight."


Did you know that the FED is the only for-profit corporation in America that is exempt from both federal and state taxes? The FED takes in about one trillion dollars per year tax free!

When was the income tax created? If you guessed 1913, the same year that the FED was created, you get a gold star. Coincidence? What are the odds? If you are going to use the FED to create debt, who is going to repay that debt? The income tax was created to complete the illusion that real money had been lent and therefore real money had to be repaid. And you thought Houdini was good.

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution specifically says that Congress is the only body that can "coin money and regulate the value thereof." The US Constitution has never been amended to allow anyone other than Congress to coin and regulate currency.

Ask your representative, in light of that information, how it is possible for the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and the Federal Reserve Bank that it created, to be constitutional.

Speaking of the Income tax

The Law That Never Was -- The Fraud of Income & Social Security Tax -- The Man

 

[gsvol]

Speaking of the Income tax

The Law That Never Was -- The Fraud of Income & Social Security Tax -- The Man

I agree with your link, that's the truth.

Adam Starchild can show you how to pay zero income taxes.

Something else we need to end, corporate personhood.

On the same day the Supreme Court issued its ruling about corporate free speech, it also ruled that an Alaska high school didn't violate a student's rights by punishing him for displaying a banner that read "Bong Hits 4 Jesus."

"Think about it," Milchen observed. "The court ruled that the government has the authority to suppress the free speech of genuine human beings but not that of corporations. It's a rather striking contrast."

Interesting to note, from he United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303t

Unwittingly, America has returned to its pre-American
Revolution, feudal roots whereby all land is held by a sovereign and the common people had no rights to hold allodial title to property. Once again, We the People are thetenants and sharecroppers renting our own property from a Sovereign in the guise of the Federal Reserve Bank. We the people have exchanged one master for another.

This has been going on for over eighty years without the "informed knowledge" of the American people, without a voice protesting loud enough. Now it's easy to grasp why America is fundamentally bankrupt.

Added by: Chester L McWhorter Sr: Forming the Federal Reserve System are the primary Federal Reserve "Banks" of: Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Richmond, Atlanta, Chicago, St Louis, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Dallas, and San Francisco. These banks are not real banks..you cannot cash a check there, open an account, etc. These "banks" are also holding companies
of smaller banks. In all of this discussion about income tax, we should be ever mindful of the fact that CONGRESS is the key. CONGRESS votes to spend the money. Congress gives the IRS its power. Congress gives the IRS its OWN budget. Congress is elected by the people. The IRS is A DECOY.

NOTE # 1: This is the FIRST doc in a string of about 37 regarding the Income Tax, How it was illegally forced upon us, the collusion of various nation banks, including The Bank of England, the Banks of Europe, the Banks of the USA that make up the Non-Government organization known as the Fed and the bankers themselves dedicated to making this a Socialist Nation. As David Rockefeller reportedly said in 1973 when he and others formed the Trilateral Commission, "We will have this a Socialist Nation by the end of the year 2000." Well, with the help of our past Communist President, William Jefferson Clinton, he damned well nearly did it. If Comrade Gore had been elected, it would be now!