Interesting film analysis - Kurt Warner on Hendon Hooker

[hndog609]

Understood. My point is there is a history from way back to now of QBs who were not that great as passers, but their legs made them successful. As for McNabb, I too don't recall him running much, but then I didn't watch him a lot, being a Packers and Commandeers (Redskins) fan. However, the few times I did watch, he had a knack for escaping sacks, career-wise he only rushed for a bit over 600 yards, but that doesn't factor in his scrambling to buy time to throw. I think he was similar to Roger The Dodger, and Frantic Fran in that aspect. So i included him as Richardsonic.

Got no idea how well the Galloping Gator will do, but it won't surprise me if he ends up doing very well. Much as it gags me to say so, he makes me think he's a Will-o-the-Wisp, and with the maneuverability of Herbie, the Love Bug. Providing he doesn't get RGIII'd by some LB or blitzing safety.

I think there may be a conflation in your take. Staubach and Tark absolutely had athleticism in their arsenal but were elite passers first and foremost. Staubach led the entire league in passer rating 4 times and TD's once. Tark even now is 14th in career yards. To throw out a name that's underappreciated in athleticism discussions is Steve Young. He had over 4K in yards at 5.9 a pop. It wasn't his running that got him in the HOF though.

The appeal with AR is simply the idea of front offices thinking "Dear God...imagine what he could be if coached up into being a legit passer with those physical abilities.". Many a track guy has moved up in the draft at WR/RB based on that hope based term; potential. There's been some winners coming out of that group but an awful lot of busts.

 

[Visiting Dawg]

They were also mauling our WRs 10 yds downfield and getting no calls. Jalen Carter was the biggest problem for our offense.

Meh. Tenn's receivers tend to play physically, esp on their little comeback routes and I didn't see anything unusual from any other game that wasn't being called. Heck, you're DBs were grabbing a handful of jersey any time Arian Smith ran a route but that is just part of the game.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

I think there may be a conflation in your take. Staubach and Tark absolutely had athleticism in their arsenal but were elite passers first and foremost. Staubach led the entire league in passer rating 4 times and TD's once. Tark even now is 14th in career yards. To throw out a name that's underappreciated in athleticism discussions is Steve Young. He had over 4K in yards at 5.9 a pop. It wasn't his running that got him in the HOF though.

The appeal with AR is simply the idea of front offices thinking "Dear God...imagine what he could be if coached up into being a legit passer with those physical abilities.". Many a track guy has moved up in the draft at WR/RB based on that hope based term; potential. There's been some winners coming out of that group but an awful lot of busts.

Which is such an idiotic way to think if you're an NFL person.

Like if you are drafting a QB that high that means you need them to get you to the super bowl/be a GREAT QB.

They're like

"Oh yeah he can't read defenses in college, no biggie! We'll help him figure that out and he will not only read the vastly more complex defenses in the NFL, but display incredible accuracy beyond anything he has done in college and he will then become one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, leading us to a championship"

It's completely idiotic

 

[Vol865]

Meh. Tenn's receivers tend to play physically, esp on their little comeback routes and I didn't see anything unusual from any other game that wasn't being called. Heck, you're DBs were grabbing a handful of jersey any time Arian Smith ran a route but that is just part of the game.

Those rose colored glasses tend to hide things

 

[Vol8188]

They were also mauling our WRs 10 yds downfield and getting no calls. Jalen Carter was the biggest problem for our offense.

Yep. We don’t drop very deep either which makes inside pressure from a guy like Carter even more difficult

 

[B81]

It is all about numbers. We use wide spreads to make the defense show where the double teams are pre snap. One side of the field will be 3 on 2 numbers for the defense. The other side will be man coverage. If the defense drops out a man, and both sides are 3 on 2 for the defense, that gives us numbers in the run game, and we hand it off. Our receivers on the defensive +side of the field don’t run routes, because their job is to occupy 3 defenders and give the man coverage side space to beat single coverage.
Against GA they were winning in man coverage, and sending late pressure from the double team side. Georgia’s db’s are extremely talented.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I think there may be a conflation in your take. Staubach and Tark absolutely had athleticism in their arsenal but were elite passers first and foremost. Staubach led the entire league in passer rating 4 times and TD's once. Tark even now is 14th in career yards. To throw out a name that's underappreciated in athleticism discussions is Steve Young. He had over 4K in yards at 5.9 a pop. It wasn't his running that got him in the HOF though.
The appeal with AR is simply the idea of front offices thinking "Dear God...imagine what he could be if coached up into being a legit passer with those physical abilities.". Many a track guy has moved up in the draft at WR/RB based on that hope based term; potential. There's been some winners coming out of that group but an awful lot of busts.

Well, as I said previously, to each his own. I think this way, you think that way. Tell will tell whether either of us are AR clairvoyant. Smarter folks than either of us have been wrong about players before. Aloha.

 

[hndog609]

Well, as I said previously, to each his own. I think this way, you think that way. Tell will tell whether either of us are AR clairvoyant. Smarter folks than either of us have been wrong about players before. Aloha.

I don't think we're necessarily as cross purpose as you make it out here. I was merely pointing out even with your own cited examples there was lots more passing prowess than just athletes that could also throw. If, IF, a physical talent like AR can have the old proverbial light bulb come on in the right system it'll be an amazing to watch. It's also a real leap of faith if expending high draft capital.

 

[Concept]

Alright, I actually watched the video. It doesn't say what you think it says.
He pointed out the decoy jogging, but only to highlight that reduced HH's options.
KW questioned some of the reads and some of the times he progressed past an open throw, and says he didn't see some blitz outlet throws.
Basically, a lot to like, but some work on reading multiple options. Nobody's coming out 100%.

But it wasn't a hit job on the overall system. He does express some concern that he doesn't understand why we're doing that, but he doesn't dwell on it, and it's not all negative. Like any evaluation, it has good points and bad points.

 

[OrangeInKy]

Mel Kiper said Hooker 5th best QB on the board and he has done this a lot longer than Warner. Warner played in a damn gimmick offense with the St Louis Rams so he shouldn't throw stones

He also took the Cardinals to a Super Bowl and almost won it. Also, it's Warner's job to provide analysis and opinions about quarterbacks, don't need to get sensitive about it.

 

[knoxvol52]

He also took the Cardinals to a Super Bowl and almost won it

Yea he also lost to a Patriots team that was a double digit underdog in the Super Bowl to a rookie named Brady who had not started but one or two games of importance

 

[Visiting Dawg]

Those rose colored glasses tend to hide things

LOL. They do indeed.

 

[EtowahVol]

Pi$$ on Warner

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I don't think we're necessarily as cross purpose as you make it out here. I was merely pointing out even with your own cited examples there was lots more passing prowess than just athletes that could also throw. If, IF, a physical talent like AR can have the old proverbial light bulb come on in the right system it'll be an amazing to watch. It's also a real leap of faith if expending high draft capital.

Not making out anything. I disengaged. Been taught it's a good thing when both parties have had their say and nothing changed in either. Not that I assume to be so high and mighty, or innocent myself, fact is too many people don't know how to stop when stopping is a good thing to do. So lay it down to my trying to practice what I preach.

I also believe in steaming my vegetables instead of boiling them. Except when I eat them raw. Ever tried uncooked corn on the cob?

 

[hndog609]

Not making out anything. I disengaged. Been taught it's a good thing when both parties have had their say and nothing changed in either. Not that I assume to be so high and mighty, or innocent myself, fact is too many people don't know how to stop when stopping is a good thing to do. So lay it down to my trying to practice what I preach.

I also believe in steaming my vegetables instead of boiling them. Except when I eat them raw. Ever tried uncooked corn on the cob?

Fair enough and to the corn question yes I have.

 

[turbovol]

Why is Levis considered a much better prospect than Hooker? Did I read that Levis threw more than 20 INT's over the last two years? Yea, he's got a big arm...AND? What else? He was very UNimpressive against us this year....

 

[utchs81]

Disclaimer: I freely admit, I'm basically a know nothing about the offense, or reading the defense. So this is just the opinion of a Lasko’s Wind Curve.

My focus is on Vol 865's suggestion that the WRs not running routes is to keep them fresh. Could be, what do I know? Actually I've already told you that. However, I think this might underscore an idea I proffered in an earlier post on VN. We have an embarrassing wealth of really good WRs. I think the Heup should take KW's comments to heart. And every so often, have three WRs ready to sprint off the field, while another three sprint on the field, assume their positions, already knowing what pass play will be called, and GO! Don't even bother to get into the huddle, just line up ready. Maybe call it the hair trigger maneuver. Practice it until you got it down perfectly. And, of course, have all the WRs run routes. Constant fresh legs would run a defense ragged, resulting in half a hundred point games or maybe even a full hundred point games. Now, on the other hand, I also freely admit, the adage of, if it ain't broke don't fix it is something not to be ignored. Heup 'em, Josh, baby!

The only Bone I would have to pick with your suggestion is that the defense then gets to make substitutions as well and it is my understanding that one of the reasons for the rapidity of our offense is to negate that.

 

[DaddyChad]

They were also mauling our WRs 10 yds downfield and getting no calls. Jalen Carter was the biggest problem for our offense.

DBs were physical, I have no problem with that. Yep Carter whipped our interior line, collapsed the pocket and altered Hooker’s throws even when someone didn’t get to him. Watch Hooker in any other game then watch his throwing motion versus Georgia. Wasn’t able to step into throws a lot.

I said before the game if I were Kirby I would be physical at Db, hell I would even take early penalties if I could hit Hooker early and see how he reacted. Georgia was able to do that and that I think effected him more than the crowd noise or anything else.

 

[DaddyChad]

Why is Levis considered a much better prospect than Hooker? Did I read that Levis threw more than 20 INT's over the last two years? Yea, he's got a big arm...AND? What else? He was very UNimpressive against us this year....

I’m with you but if I’m playing devils advocate I would point out his line was terrible.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

If you understand football QB play it makes perfect sense. The play below is a simple slant/shoot concept with a TB checkdown. Given that the routes on both sides of the field break almost immediately and at the same time, the only way to read this is to pick a side. Typically you'll do it based on the space available for the slant. For example if the guy over Y has outside leverage and the guy over H has a heavy inside leverage you'd read the Y side of the field because your goal is to throw the slant.

View attachment 540195

Yep. Why do we want that slant? Because it is FAR more likely to turn into a footrace to the endzone than those short outs/hitches. Good post.

Two other things that are worth addressing here:

We aren’t confusing anyone. Nor is it really our goal. Our offense is does few things but does them incredibly well. When confusion does occur it’s based more on tempo than route design. Our route tree is simple and more limited than most teams.

The reason we can rely on one guy being open most plays is the defense simply can’t take away everything. If the DB is taking away the go route, they’re by nature giving up the hitch. If they’re taking away the hitch by nature they’re giving up the go route. So the WR is going to simply see how the DB is playing him as he runs and adjust from there. If he’s inside, I do x, outside I do y, deep I do z, and so on

Yep. Right again. With the WR on the opposite side stretched all the way to the sidelines (and 2 or 3 defenders) the 2 play-side WR have lots of room to get open and many times wide, wide open like last year. If Milton can play pretty well, we will have several standout WRs again this year like Squirrel, Donte etc. Great scheme...thats why we had the no1 offense in NCAA last year with ZERO 5star players at skill positions. None.

There’s no difference in that category. NFL defense also cannot cover everything. If they could the game would lose its appeal. The inability to cover everything forces trade offs which is why we all enjoy the live chess match that is football

The chess match is amazing to behold for a person who played extensively or coached ball, as you know. What i find amazing is that it is so enjoyable by millions and millions of folks who have never played in pads OR coached...such that the NFL makes more $ than the NBA, MLB, and NHL COMBINED. Such an amazing game. Is it August yet?? Lol

 

[Sara Clark]

When an analysis is done on a QB based off of a loss, it seldom is going to be a positive review, nor is it a fair analysis of an entire season. Which is what's needed, especially here at draft time. JMO

 

[OrangeInKy]

Yea he also lost to a Patriots team that was a double digit underdog in the Super Bowl to a rookie named Brady who had not started but one or two games of importance

So? First you say he played in a gimmick offense and shouldn’t throw stones, which he wasn’t doing. When given some info that doesn’t fit your narrative, you move the goalpost with a “yeah,but..” thing. The knock on him was he was just a system QB who couldn’t make reads, and that he was good he played for the Rams in that “gimmick” offense, but he took a different team to a Super Bowl. Therefore, your criticism of him playing on a “gimmick” offense is moot, as it’s not the only team he succeeded with. He gave analysis on a QB as is his job, why do people have to start attacking him and his career over it? Who cares? I’d also add that that Patriots defense was quite good, but go off bro.

 

[knoxvol52]

So? First you say he played in a gimmick offense and shouldn’t throw stones, which he wasn’t doing. When given some info that doesn’t fit your narrative, you move the goalpost with a “yeah,but..” thing. The knock on him was he was just a system QB who couldn’t make reads, and that he was good he played for the Rams in that “gimmick” offense, but he took a different team to a Super Bowl. Therefore, your criticism of him playing on a “gimmick” offense is moot, as it’s not the only team he succeeded with. He gave analysis on a QB as is his job, why do people have to start attacking him and his career over it? Who cares? I’d also add that that Patriots defense was quite good, but go off bro.

Grandchildren here today and I'm far from being your bro sir

 

[knoxvol52]

By the way you have a wonderful day I assume your the greatest maybe you are but I respect your opinion and you should respect mine thanks in advance oh knowledgeable one

 

[Vol865]

DBs were physical, I have no problem with that. Yep Carter whipped our interior line, collapsed the pocket and altered Hooker’s throws even when someone didn’t get to him. Watch Hooker in any other game then watch his throwing motion versus Georgia. Wasn’t able to step into throws a lot.

I said before the game if I were Kirby I would be physical at Db, hell I would even take early penalties if I could hit Hooker early and see how he reacted. Georgia was able to do that and that I think effected him more than the crowd noise or anything else.

I don't think it was the hits as much as just having immediate interior pressure. Made it hard to run the ball too.