Interesting Way to Curb Illegal Immigration

[KB5252]

not really since the number of workers we get now legally does not keep up with demand. Make it easier to work here on the books but maintain strict standards to citizenship. In the construction industry most only work 8-9 months and then want to return home and see their families. This gives them the ability to do that while fulfilling our needs too.

Many Americans are still out of work because they believe they are entitled to a $25/hr job with full benefits and a company match 401k. I see plenty of jobs available around here that, while not glamorous, would help feed their family. Many aren't willing to do work that's "beneath them" and will live off the gov't cheese until they are given the proper job.

The work is there and we should give it to those who are willing

A good compelling argument, but what would you say to those that argue illegal workers are short circuiting the job market, as far as pay goes, by driving down the wages? I realize this does not apply to office workers and the like but what about blue collar factory workers or construction workers? If they (Hispanic illegals)will work for 2 to 5 dollars less per hour doesn't that hurt them (American workers)?

 

[rjd970]

I still say tax them. opcorn:

 

[utvolpj]

A good compelling argument, but what would you say to those that argue illegal workers are short circuiting the job market, as far as pay goes, by driving down the wages? I realize this does not apply to office workers and the like but what about blue collar factory workers or construction workers? If they (Hispanic illegals)will work for 2 to 5 dollars less per hour doesn't that hurt them (American workers)?

depends on your version of hurt I guess. If the market says the job is worth $2-5 less than what the current employees are getting paid then they get the option of taking a cut or giving up their job. I believe it's a similar idea to the housing mess. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay

 

[BigPapaVol]

not really since the number of workers we get now legally does not keep up with demand. Make it easier to work here on the books but maintain strict standards to citizenship. In the construction industry most only work 8-9 months and then want to return home and see their families. This gives them the ability to do that while fulfilling our needs too.

Many Americans are still out of work because they believe they are entitled to a $25/hr job with full benefits and a company match 401k. I see plenty of jobs available around here that, while not glamorous, would help feed their family. Many aren't willing to do work that's "beneath them" and will live off the gov't cheese until they are given the proper job.

The work is there and we should give it to those who are willing

the bottom line is that the gov't cheese is a bigger monthly number than the alternatives. It's pathetic. Being employable and unemployed for an extended period should absolutely suck.

 

[OWB]

I still say tax them. opcorn:

Churches too!

 

[volinbham]

not really since the number of workers we get now legally does not keep up with demand. Make it easier to work here on the books but maintain strict standards to citizenship. In the construction industry most only work 8-9 months and then want to return home and see their families. This gives them the ability to do that while fulfilling our needs too.

Many Americans are still out of work because they believe they are entitled to a $25/hr job with full benefits and a company match 401k. I see plenty of jobs available around here that, while not glamorous, would help feed their family. Many aren't willing to do work that's "beneath them" and will live off the gov't cheese until they are given the proper job.

The work is there and we should give it to those who are willing

I generally favor this approach but fear the "softies" would balk at enforcing the restrictions and return to your country provisions.

Additionally, the "softies" would demand all the cost drivers we see now - healthcare, education, etc.

In the end, we would know who they are but still face many of the same problems.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Churches too!

no argument. I'm all for taxing preacher pay, but not the top line donations.

 

[KB5252]

depends on your version of hurt I guess. If the market says the job is worth $2-5 less than what the current employees are getting paid then they get the option of taking a cut or giving up their job. I believe it's a similar idea to the housing mess. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay

But it isn't the market that is deciding. it is the illegals who are driving down the price in this market, they are taking illegal labor and in doing so driving down the wage of legal workers. They will take less because they know they are undocumented and the don't have the bargaining power a legal worker would have. Do you not consider this a short circuit of the market?

 

[KB5252]

no argument. I'm all for taxing preacher pay, but not the top line donations.

I don't have a problem with taxing preachers pay but the money that is used for ministry and outreach programs should be off limits to the government.

I seriously doubt this is what OWB meant though. Just another one of the extremists out there.

 

[utvolpj]

But it isn't the market that is deciding. it is the illegals who are driving down the price in this market, they are taking illegal labor and in doing so driving down the wage of legal workers. They will take less because they know they are undocumented and the don't have the bargaining power a legal worker would have. Do you not consider this a short circuit of the market?

in the US version of the market? Perhaps, but I don't think there would be the idea of illegal labor in a true version of a free market. This would also eliminate the need for a min wage but there's no way that will ever happen.

Is it truly bad to drive down an inflated cost?

 

[hndog609]

Institute a death penalty for businesses and corporations that are habitual offenders in hiring illegals. When they are caught fine the hell out of them, if they have been repeatedly fined and still choose to hire illegals give the company the death penalty, it will only take one or two before the others realize the risk far outweighs any benefit.

For this would work you would have to go after smaller companies and construction outfits as well. Give them two strikes and then pull the business license of those who do not comply. Of coarse there would have to be strict oversight and teeth would need to be added to current laws on the books.

This has been my line of thought for some time. It'd work too. A couple comapanies get busted and sold/liquidated people will notice.

I do want to add a small piece though. There is a group of aliens that are simply criminals. They don't "work" for anybody. For lesser crimes they get deported...once. If caught again they are considered a foreign militant or outright terrorist, whatever you can make work, then throw 'em in a hole. If they kill or maim a US citizen they are immediately considered a terrorist and subject to execution completely outside any judicial rights that would be applied to a US citizen or even a foreign national here on a valid visa.

 

[KB5252]

in the US version of the market? Perhaps, but I don't think there would be the idea of illegal labor in a true version of a free market. This would also eliminate the need for a min wage but there's no way that will ever happen.

Is it truly bad to drive down an inflated cost?

Yes and no. In this situation it is bad. I know of some construction outfits who are on the verge of going under. The problem is right now the market is slow, they have had to take on more remodels and small stuff than they normally do. It is hard for them to be competitive in this market because they run a legitimate company, have workers comp and all the right licenses, much of their competition for these smaller jobs are illegals doing business with no license and carrying no workers comp, while paying their laborers around 3 to 6 dollars per hour less. In this case it hurts these legitimate companies, and workers, who play by the rules.

 

[the.one.the.only]

illegal immigration is a pet issue of mine but i don't think getting the irs involved is a good idea. It will make it worse.
there are better ways to deal with the illegal immigration problem. deport them if they are criminals, fine the hell out of companies that hire them, don't issue them liscenses, don't give them gifts from the treasury, don't let their kids go to school for free (and for gods sake at least dont give them classes in spanish), get companies to quit advertising in spanish, don't let them use er rooms for primary healthcare etc...

Oh yeah, do away with the ridiculous mis understanding of the constitution that allows auto citizenship to any child born within our borders. Do away with this concept of "anchor babies".

f a i r t a x

 

[utvolpj]

Yes and no. In this situation it is bad. I know of some construction outfits who are on the verge of going under. The problem is right now the market is slow, they have had to take on more remodels and small stuff than they normally do. It is hard for them to be competitive in this market because they run a legitimate company, have workers comp and all the right licenses, much of their competition for these smaller jobs are illegals doing business with no license and carrying no workers comp, while paying their laborers around 3 to 6 dollars per hour less. In this case it hurts these legitimate companies, and workers, who play by the rules.

believe me I understand that since I am part of their industry. It's rough for all of us but how will you ever stop the black market for services? I can guarantee you it was going on when construction was booming but everyone had plenty of work so it didn't matter. Now that it's tightening up people are starting to look around. And for the record: many of the guys who are complaining now were using that cheap labor in the good times. You think a service plumber really wants to grab a shovel? Saw it too many times

You'll never get past the unlicensed guy who charges hundreds less for the "same" work. No insurance, license, permit, etc. It's all on what the consumer wants to give up. When it comes time to sell the house with a new addition that never got inspected the owner pays for the cheap work many times over.

 

[gasguy98]

really? So you want the gov't to dictate how a company can advertise their product? There are plenty of people who know English but feel more comfortable with their own language.

Where did I write that the gov't should get companies to quit advertising in Spanish? If the people would state their dissapointment that companies do this then we could pressure them into doing the right thing and advertise in English only. I don't care about "feeling comfortable". This is the United States. We speak English. If one wants to become an American they should WANT to learn and speak English. I live in freaking Miami so I know that the people that really want to be here for the right reasons speak English. Sure, they may speak Spanish to their friends but for anything official they expect it to be in English. I once told a Latin customer of mine that I wish I could speak Spanish. His response "why, this is your country, we should all learn and speak English. Not to mention that by advertising in Spanish or having documents in Spanish we breed a balkanized group of people with limited opportunities.
We don't ask much of immigrants but I will insist they speak English and EXPECT English to be the language that advertisements and official documents be in.