Iran nuclear program. It is a lie

[n_huffhines]

What do you mean? Why didn’t he come into office guns blazing? To what purpose?

Huff you and I both know you are not in favor of that and you’re just trying to bait me.

It was a **** show that everybody just wanted over after the failed rescue attempt.

They should have just let Ross Perot handle it. 😬

No, I don't expect him to come out guns blazing, nor do I want him to, but he didn't even treat it like it was an act of war.

BTW, I thought we didn't negotiate with terrorists?

 

[Grand Vol]

BTW, I thought we didn't negotiate with terrorists?

We didn't. We negotiated with the Iranian Government who had the power to end that hostage crisis far earlier than it did.

 

[05_never_again]

Why is 1979 always the starting point and not 1953?

Because starting the story in 1979 makes the US look better.

People have a hard time comprehending that you can be critical of the actions of the United States while at the same time believing that the Iranian theocratic government is bad too. A critique of one side doesn't mean you support or are sympathetic to the other side.

 

[NorthDallas40]

We didn't. We negotiated with the Iranian Government who had the power to end that hostage crisis far earlier than it did.

Correct!

 

[05_never_again]

Because we're talking about the hostage crisis...

Yes, but understanding the hostage crisis by starting right when the crisis began is like starting a 500 page novel at page 100, to be honest.

 

[theFallGuy]

The money was already Iran's money that was frozen in 1979. Pay attention.

No, we didn’t ‘owe’ Iran that $1.7 billion ransom payment

 

[Grand Vol]

Yes, but understanding the hostage crisis by starting right when the crisis began is like starting a 500 page novel at page 100, to be honest.

I don't disagree with this or with Ras mentioning the overthrow of the elected government in the 50s. We did kind of have a habit of doing such things back then (along with the Soviets) and it coming back to bite us in the backside. I do disagree it was events in 1953 that led us to the events of 1979. Related, sure, but not directly linked.

Iran's largest problem in that 25 year gap was certainly not of our doing. The Shah moved too quickly on "progressive" ideas and tried to transform the country to a Western style nation. Maybe Turkey at the very least if we were to pick a nation to compare Iran in the 50s and 60s. But anyway, such things need to be done incrementally in that part of the world especially with a majority Muslim citizenry. Places like the UAE and Bahrain have been able to pull it off, but only a little here and there.

Yes, we were guilty of putting the government into power we thought was going to help us. But, as we've seen far too many times in that part of the world, rapid changes and instilling a "new way of life" to a very traditional people can (will) cause problems in the long run.

 

[n_huffhines]

We didn't. We negotiated with the Iranian Government who had the power to end that hostage crisis far earlier than it did.

Exactly

 

[n_huffhines]

No, we didn’t ‘owe’ Iran that $1.7 billion ransom payment

Whether or not somebody from the NY Post thinks we "owed" them money doesn't refute OP's saying that it was Iran's money. The author is quibbling over how the interest was calculated, other things that might offset it, and whether or not we would have lost a decision at Tribunal over all of this....regardless of all that, it was still their money.

 

[hog88]

Only if we then turned around and reimbursed them the cost of overthrowing Mossedegh in 1953 and installing The Shah.

If he wouldn’t have threatened to rip off the oil companies he wouldn’t have been overthrown.

 

[05_never_again]

Yes, we were guilty of putting the government into power we thought was going to help us. But, as we've seen far too many times in that part of the world, rapid changes and instilling a "new way of life" to a very traditional people can (will) cause problems in the long run.

This has happened to the United States so many times you think we would have figured it out. Why not? Because any gains from the successes of it are privatized and the losses are socialized.

If you walked into a casino and they had a game of blackjack where you kept your gains when you won and got to take the chips of other players when you lost, you could win a lot of money.

Well-connected business interests benefited from the reign of the Shah and the costs/negative consequences associated with it were borne by other parties.

 

[Grand Vol]

This has happened to the United States so many times you think we would have figured it

Neither the East or West Bloc back then figured it out.

We certainly weren't alone in the toppling of governments back then.

 

[lawgator1]

An oldie, but goodie

[twitter]584129948916514818[/twitter]

He didn't know what was in the agreement then. He still doesn't know now.

The only way in which he will actually understand how it works is if Fox & Friends brings in some smart people to tell him.

 

[FLVOL69]

He didn't know what was in the agreement then. He still doesn't know now.

The only way in which he will actually understand how it works is if Fox & Friends brings in some smart people to tell him.

Like the two assclowns who negotiated this fiasco ?

 

[Vol0725]

He didn't know what was in the agreement then. He still doesn't know now.

The only way in which he will actually understand how it works is if Fox & Friends brings in some smart people to tell him.

Lol ok. So do you support the Iran deal, and why?

Look here’s the problem, and you may well know this...

The flaws in the agreement – negotiated by the Obama administration and the other nations involved – have been described by Trump, the administration officials and others.

The biggest flaw is that the agreement only holds back Iran’s nuclear weapons aspirations for about a decade. This so-called sunset provision is the one of the most worrisome flaws of the deal, a defect that has given many Israeli defense officials countless headaches. They have good reason to fear that Iran, which has pledged many times to destroy Israel, could actually do so if it developed nuclear weapons and used them to attack.

The Iran deal is garbage because it is dead in 10 to 12 years, it should be tossed for that reason alone. It provides no concrete solution to the nuclear question that hangs over the Middle East – and remains an existential threat to Israel.

Iran’s nuclear know-how is just being kept on ice. They most surely retained all their prior work to build a nuclear weapon. Be a naive dumbass all you want, but in 10 years or so, they won’t want to renegotiate the deal or create a permeant one. By then, they will have the means to quickly build a nuclear weapon – and have the delivery systems to accurately hit Israel, Europe and possibly even America.

Now, Iran can be contained, we have done it before, we can do it again. There is no shame in such a plan, and Trump will hopefully do it. Their economy can be held back in isolation for years – perhaps decades. They won’t be able to get rich selling oil or gas. They can go back to being an international pariah. And, considering Iran’s recent economic and protest issues, that should scare the hell out of them.

"It says to me that the 2015 nuclear deal, the real issue is verification," said Condoleezza Rice. "When you know that you have a country that's lied repeatedly, obviously, why trust them now?"

The common sense concern about the nuclear deal has been the verification regime, if anything the recent Iran “lies” makes even more clear that you can't have a verification regime that gives the Iran regime weeks to clean up the site.

Let’s take off the Obama-blinders here. Iran ain’t our pal. No more Mr Niceguy, time to step on their throat and make them realize that we aren’t *****footing around here Jack!

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Reagan couldn't declare war (POTUS can't declare war anyway) when they released the hostages. He punished them with sanctions.

Since when has declaring war ever had to follow the rules? Did Congress declare war when we went to Afghanistan in 2001? Hell, Korea? Vietnam?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Because we're talking about the hostage crisis...

Then you need to start at the very beginning. What was the catalyst that caused the Iranians to revolt in the first place?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Who said anything about declaring war? Reagan had all kinds of operations going on, so let's not pretend that he was some sort of constitutional originalist.

Sanctions? LOL

Sanctions? You mean arms for hostages?

 

[LouderVol]

Then you need to start at the very beginning. What was the catalyst that caused the Iranians to revolt in the first place?

the very beginning? Like one tribe moving into another tribes land, and them staying pissed at each other throughout all of recorded history? Or do you just mean since the modern European involvement?

 

[Grand Vol]

Then you need to start at the very beginning. What was the catalyst that caused the Iranians to revolt in the first place?

See further explanation later on.

Related to, but not a direct result of like you want it to be.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don't disagree with this or with Ras mentioning the overthrow of the elected government in the 50s. We did kind of have a habit of doing such things back then (along with the Soviets) and it coming back to bite us in the backside. I do disagree it was events in 1953 that led us to the events of 1979. Related, sure, but not directly linked.

Iran's largest problem in that 25 year gap was certainly not of our doing. The Shah moved too quickly on "progressive" ideas and tried to transform the country to a Western style nation. Maybe Turkey at the very least if we were to pick a nation to compare Iran in the 50s and 60s. But anyway, such things need to be done incrementally in that part of the world especially with a majority Muslim citizenry. Places like the UAE and Bahrain have been able to pull it off, but only a little here and there.

Yes, we were guilty of putting the government into power we thought was going to help us. But, as we've seen far too many times in that part of the world, rapid changes and instilling a "new way of life" to a very traditional people can (will) cause problems in the long run.

We installed him because Mossedegh threatened to nationalize the oil assets and the British/Churchill convinced us to help overthrow him.

I hope you are not suggesting the overthrow was intended to install a country with western values in the region.

 

[05_never_again]

Blowback (intelligence - Wikipedia)

It's the CIA's own term.

 

[Grand Vol]

I hope you are not suggesting the overthrow was intended to install a country with western values in the region.

No, I was suggesting we installed a government friendly to the US in the region. The Shah was responsible for implementing the rapid changes in their society that led to the rise of the extremists and eventual revolution.

As I said, change has to be slow and taken a small step at a time in that part of the world. Iran went too fast for the people.

 

[05_never_again]

No, I was suggesting we installed a government friendly to the US in the region. The Shah was responsible for implementing the rapid changes in their society that led to the rise of the extremists and eventual revolution.

As I said, change has to be slow and taken a small step at a time in that part of the world. Iran went too fast for the people.

Their anger at the Shah for having "Western values" was incidental. They wanted the Shah gone because he was pushed into power by a US/UK-orchestrated coup that overthrew a leader they had democratically elected.

If a foreign power overthrew our democratically-elected government and replaced it with another government of their choosing, even if you didn't like our government, how would you feel about that foreign power?

 

[hog88]

Then you need to start at the very beginning. What was the catalyst that caused the Iranians to revolt in the first place?

If you want to go back to root cause. The Iranians allowed (begged) western oil companies to spend millions developing their oil reserves then was going to double cross them.