Is Nico the best first year starter in Tennessee history?

#76
#76
Orangepantsforever said:
Ainge was better, but different era, different game.
Shuler was also quite good.
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I wore my Ainge jersey to Ohio. However I remember that 04 team he definitely made Junior Rosegreen a household name. I left Neyland sick that day. Now he also took down David Green and Georgia but let's not act like Cedric Houston and Gerald Riggs didn't make it very manageable on him. At that time while Fulmer was starting to lose his luster he still had some rock solid offensive lines. Nico has not had that luxury.
 
#77
#77
DeepSpringsVol said:
I wore my Ainge jersey to Ohio. However I remember that 04 team he definitely made Junior Rosegreen a household name. I left Neyland sick that day. Now he also took down David Green and Georgia but let's not act like Cedric Houston and Gerald Riggs didn't make it very manageable on him. At that time while Fulmer was starting to lose his luster he still had some rock solid offensive lines. Nico has not had that luxury.
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Sampson just ran for 1500 and 20+ tds.
 
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#81
#81
C-south said:
I was referring to the O-line. They haven’t been great but I don’t think they’re as bad as we make out sometimes. I mean they at least show up on occasion.
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Yeah I think the issue is every offensive lineman will tell you it's easier to run block than pass block. With whatever angle when you go initiate the contact instead of waiting to see where the defense is coming after you is coming from. I think they are adequate to run block better than pass pro.
 
#82
#82
DeepSpringsVol said:
I wore my Ainge jersey to Ohio. However I remember that 04 team he definitely made Junior Rosegreen a household name. I left Neyland sick that day. Now he also took down David Green and Georgia but let's not act like Cedric Houston and Gerald Riggs didn't make it very manageable on him. At that time while Fulmer was starting to lose his luster he still had some rock solid offensive lines. Nico has not had that luxury.
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Tennessee had a great D in ‘04, I think. I know they did in ‘05.
But all being said, there haven’t been but a few….maybe one or two QB’s at UT (at any grade level) that really took over games, and did it without a solid supporting cast. Maybe Dobbs a few times….possibly Tony Robinson. All of them have needed solid supporting casts. Nico’s teammates didn’t provide a lot of help in the losses this year.
 
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#83
#83
Orangepantsforever said:
Tennessee had a great D in ‘04, I think. I know they did in ‘05.
But all being said, there haven’t been but a few….maybe one or two QB’s at UT (at any grade level) that really took over games, and did it without a solid supporting cast. Maybe Dobbs a few times….possibly Tony Robinson. All of them have needed solid supporting casts. Nico’s teammates didn’t provide a lot of help in the losses this year.
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I agree. It was rough. There for awhile it looked like Kitselman was going to be his best weapon but unfortunately SEC defensive coordinators picked up on that and gameplanned for that.
 
#84
#84
Orangepantsforever said:
Tennessee had a great D in ‘04, I think. I know they did in ‘05.
But all being said, there haven’t been but a few….maybe one or two QB’s at UT (at any grade level) that really took over games, and did it without a solid supporting cast. Maybe Dobbs a few times….possibly Tony Robinson. All of them have needed solid supporting casts. Nico’s teammates didn’t provide a lot of help in the losses this year.
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Nico literally refused to throw the ball on the last play of the game at Arkansas. He did it all season.
 
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#87
#87
The answer is no
He was carried all year by Dylan
Had 15 tds most of which came against non p5 teams and nc state
 
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#90
#90
BigOrangeTrain said:
Context. Again stats favor Nico sorry. Oh yeah and Inguess you think Martin won the title and Clausen beat UF twice to right? You obviously don’t understand team football.

Answer me this and be honest. What team are you taking for a season as a whole? The 98 team or 24 team? Who had the better OL? WR? TE? LB? DL? DBs?
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Nico is in a more pass happy system and time. Plus playing more games vs a much softer schedule. Not buying Nico being better at all!

Give Tee his credit!
 
#91
#91
Might be rose colored glasses, as I was only 8 at the time, but Ainge (and Schaefer first few games) went 10-3 with a SEC Title appearance in 04. So I doubt it.
 
#92
#92
Y’all need to stop calling Nico a sophomore for the ‘24 season. How do you equate to playing/starting 10-12 games as a true freshman vs a redshirt year with a couple of mop up appearances? Experience matters more than the letters next to the name.
 
#95
#95
Buzzbait said:
I agree. Holloway was a sophomore in 1972 but 1972 was the first year freshmen were eligible to play NCAA football and basketball. Condredge was a sophomore first year starter.0
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Right. For the purposes of this off-season discussion, right or wrong, I was thinking of quarterbacks who took first snap of season with an eligibility of "freshman".


I don't care if they are a 26-year old, 6th year redshirt, double medical redshirt, three pandemic years, whatever.

So, using that tight definition, for me...that disqualifies a lot of fine quarterbacks mentioned here. To include Condredge, Peyton, Erik Ainge.

If Shuler took first snap right out of high school, then he was better than Nico.

And, yeah..Bray was an elite college arm on a team with no defense.
 
#96
#96
UT97Vol said:
Y’all need to stop calling Nico a sophomore for the ‘24 season. How do you equate to playing/starting 10-12 games as a true freshman vs a redshirt year with a couple of mop up appearances? Experience matters more than the letters next to the name.
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It’s never going to be “apples to apples”. Nico isn’t a Sophomore. He also isn “just a freshman”. Before 2018, you couldn’t play in 4 games (plus postseason) and still maintain a redshirt.

And I “get” that experience matters. So does physical maturation. A 20 year old (like Nico) is usually physically and mentally more advanced than an 18 year old. Nico was also Enrolled early. He went through 2 Spring practices (one as QB1), 2 Fall Camps (1 as QB 1), Bowl practice and a full season of practice as well as a year+ of strength and conditioning. Started the bowl game his “true freshman“ year after several weeks of practice prep as QB1. All THAT matters too. Knowing what a film geek PM is, I’m sure an extra year with the playbook would have made a difference for him.

Comparing him to PM’s true freshman year when he arrived on campus a month before the season, shared QB3 reps with Branndon Stewert and then was “anointed” the starter in an offense that was roughly 3/1 run/pass isn’t “comparing freshmen” and similar experiences.
 
#98
#98
Tenacjim said:
It’s never going to be “apples to apples”. Nico isn’t a Sophomore. He also isn “just a freshman”. Before 2018, you couldn’t play in 4 games (plus postseason) and still maintain a redshirt.

And I “get” that experience matters. So does physical maturation. A 20 year old (like Nico) is usually physically and mentally more advanced than an 18 year old. Nico was also Enrolled early. He went through 2 Spring practices (one as QB1), 2 Fall Camps (1 as QB 1), Bowl practice and a full season of practice as well as a year+ of strength and conditioning. Started the bowl game his “true freshman“ year after several weeks of practice prep as QB1. All THAT matters too. Knowing what a film geek PM is, I’m sure an extra year with the playbook would have made a difference for him.

Comparing him to PM’s true freshman year when he arrived on campus a month before the season, shared QB3 reps with Branndon Stewert and then was “anointed” the starter in an offense that was roughly 3/1 run/pass isn’t “comparing freshmen” and similar experiences.
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I agree with most of that. You had to see them both and experience them both. I love Peyton. I was in school with him, ran in some off the same circles with him and he’s a great ambassador for the university as a VFL. But he struggled at times his first year. What he didn’t do was get the Vols beat, which I think is a similar comp to Nico this year. Both did a good job of not putting the team in poor situations with bad decisions.
 
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#99
#99
UT97Vol said:
I agree with most of that. You had to see them both and experience them both. I love Peyton. I was in school with him, ran in some off the same circles with him and he’s a great ambassador for the university as a VFL. But he struggled at times his first year. What he didn’t do was get the Vols beat, which I think is a similar comp to Nico this year. Both did a good job of not putting the team in poor situations with bad decisions.
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I’ve seen them both in person many times as well. I absolutely agree PM struggled his Freshman year. Just trying to add some context in comparing PM’s (or other Vols) true freshman year to Nico’s RS Freshman year for many reasons. Basically the point of this whole thread…..hard to compare different “eras” and experiences with all the different rules.

There are many advantages to “learning under fire”. PM did it both at UT and at Indy. Probably sucked “in the moment” but absolutely paid off the following year in both places. There are also many advantages to redshirting and growing and maturing. That’s the reason some parents (like Archie) actually prefer it. Now that you can play 4 games (plus the offseason) and STILL redshirt, makes it even more appealing IMO. But also really blurs the “just a freshman” perspective.
 
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