Is Our Offensive Line Actually Any Good?

[kidbourbon]

I keep hearing how good they are. And I keep hearing how we'll be better at every position next year....but it might not matter because of all the losses on the offensive line.

But what is it that our offensive line has done -- i.e., stuff that is observable from the eyeball test or stuff that can be shown through stats -- that supports the conclusion that they're elite? Or even that they're really good?

As best I can tell, our offensive line is somewhere between highly overrated and wildly overrated. And this is actually a good if we're thinking about next year. Because I'm not convinced that there will be a significant drop off in offensive line next year, and I don't know a goddayyyum thing about the guys who will be starting on the OL next year. But what I do know is that our rushing game was appreciably better when we had the focking Sullins twins on the offensive line. And the pass protection was about the same, unless my memory fails me.
i
Am I wrong here? Is our offensive line the greatest thing since the focking 1992 Dallas Cowboys? If it is, then why are we averaging 161 yards rushing per game, which 62nd in the FBS. And 4.6 YPC, which is 51st in the FBS?

Sure, we don't have Jamal Lewis running the ball, but our running backs are abjectly atrocious. And isn't a great OL supposed to make the backs look better? Is it that OL's are just generally overrated in the whole scheme of things and that it's better to have an elite running back and an average OL than a very good OL and average running backs? I'm starting to believe that in the SEC -- where the talent on the defensive lines is what makes our conference better than the rest of the conferences -- that maybe a good OL is overrated. That unless you have the absolutely, unquestionably best offensive line in the entire country, than you're probably just as well off having a mediocre offensive line because they're going to be blasted at the line of scrimmage anyway. Now the last few sentences are just me thinking out loud, so don't hold me to that. Maybe I'm on to something, maybe I'm not. But I don't want that to divert this thread from the main questions of:

1) Is our OL really that good?
2) If no, then will our OL really be that much worse than it is this year?
3) If no, does that make you feel more optimistic about 2014 already?

 

[GLDunlap]

When all 11 on defense know whats coming it's hard for the line to do their job. We are running a scaled down HS offense right now. There just isn't enough skill or speed on the field to scare anyone. We would be better off right now playing power football between the tackles with Marlin Lane and Tom Smith.

So is the Offensive line any good? Yes and No

There will 3-4 of them on NFL teams next year though.

 

[VolunteerTitan3]

When all 11 on defense know whats coming it's hard for the line to do their job. We are running a scaled down HS offense right now. There just isn't enough skill or speed on the field to scare anyone. We would be better off right now playing power football between the tackles with Marlin Lane and Tom Smith.

So is the Offensive line any good? Yes and No

There will 3-4 of them on NFL teams next year though.

I agree!

 

[smokey0625]

I keep hearing how good they are. And I keep hearing how we'll be better at every position next year....but it might not matter because of all the losses on the offensive line.

But what is it that our offensive line has done -- i.e., stuff that is observable from the eyeball test or stuff that can be shown through stats -- that supports the conclusion that they're elite? Or even that they're really good?

As best I can tell, our offensive line is somewhere between highly overrated and wildly overrated. And this is actually a good if we're thinking about next year. Because I'm not convinced that there will be a significant drop off in offensive line next year, and I don't know a goddayyyum thing about the guys who will be starting on the OL next year. But what I do know is that our rushing game was appreciably better when we had the focking Sullins twins on the offensive line. And the pass protection was about the same, unless my memory fails me.
i
Am I wrong here? Is our offensive line the greatest thing since the focking 1992 Dallas Cowboys? If it is, then why are we averaging 161 yards rushing per game, which 62nd in the FBS. And 4.6 YPC, which is 51st in the FBS?

Sure, we don't have Jamal Lewis running the ball, but our running backs are abjectly atrocious. And isn't a great OL supposed to make the backs look better? Is it that OL's are just generally overrated in the whole scheme of things and that it's better to have an elite running back and an average OL than a very good OL and average running backs? I'm starting to believe that in the SEC -- where the talent on the defensive lines is what makes our conference better than the rest of the conferences -- that maybe a good OL is overrated. That unless you have the absolutely, unquestionably best offensive line in the entire country, than you're probably just as well off having a mediocre offensive line because they're going to be blasted at the line of scrimmage anyway. Now the last few sentences are just me thinking out loud, so don't hold me to that. Maybe I'm on to something, maybe I'm not. But I don't want that to divert this thread from the main questions of:

1) Is our OL really that good?
2) If no, then will our OL really be that much worse than it is this year?
3) If no, does that make you feel more optimistic about 2014 already?

They are terrible. Might as well put the backups in, cause it worked so good for the qb situation.

 

[KingtUT]

Been asking myself the same question for two years, still don't have a definitive answer. If I had to rank them from 1-10 I'd give them a 7.5 which is better than average.

 

[nash101]

There is great individual talent on the line (ie Tiny) and they are very experienced - since most have been forced to start since they were freshmen. Not sure they are an elite unit though

Last year they were great at pass protection but they didn't do Peterman any favors Saturday. Something in their style that seems to hold back their run blocking skills. Funny thing is when Simms was QB they were much better at run blocking

The guys for next year may not have as much game experience but I think they will perform well as a unit since they have had time to develop

 

[sonofUT62]

When all 11 on defense know whats coming it's hard for the line to do their job. We are running a scaled down HS offense right now. There just isn't enough skill or speed on the field to scare anyone. We would be better off right now playing power football between the tackles with Marlin Lane and Tom Smith.

So is the Offensive line any good? Yes and No

There will 3-4 of them on NFL teams next year though.

Spot on post

 

[thebjd]

They are terrible. Might as well put the backups in, cause it worked so good for the qb situation.

I laughed. Nice.:hi:

 

[Majorvol23]

Yes, they're very good

They're better at pass protection of course, but we are no threat in the passing game.

Therefore, teams load up expecting the run, which makes they're job harder

NFL level pass protection - upper SEC level run blocking ability, but no passing game & good but not elite RB's

IMO

 

[photovol]

We do have a very good OLine, but bear in mind it's difficult to showcase an OLine, without other tangable players. Next year fans will see how much we miss Richardson, James, Stone, Fulton and others, just as we miss Bray, Patterson, Rivera, Rodgers, and Hunter from last year.

 

[NashVOL93]

I hear a lot of talk about the great things Coach Pittman did for our O-line while he was here, but wasn't he only here one year? I honestly don't mean that negatively. I'm sure a great coach could make a difference in one season, but it just doesn't seem like enough time to me.

They were very good in pass protection last year, but you could tell it was because of the team chemistry. Last year's UT offense was one of the most all-around complete squads I've seen in years, with NFL-level talent at every position except perhaps RB. They did their thing and they did it well, and their thing was passing the ball.

So, in my opinion, while I think they're every bit as physically talented as people say they are, they just weren't ready to truly bear the burden of driving the offense as a unit this year. They fed off the entire squad's synergy and chemistry last year and it spurred them on to play above their potential as a unit within a total offense.

This year, they ARE the offense.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

I keep hearing how good they are. And I keep hearing how we'll be better at every position next year....but it might not matter because of all the losses on the offensive line.

But what is it that our offensive line has done -- i.e., stuff that is observable from the eyeball test or stuff that can be shown through stats -- that supports the conclusion that they're elite? Or even that they're really good?

As best I can tell, our offensive line is somewhere between highly overrated and wildly overrated. And this is actually a good if we're thinking about next year. Because I'm not convinced that there will be a significant drop off in offensive line next year, and I don't know a goddayyyum thing about the guys who will be starting on the OL next year. But what I do know is that our rushing game was appreciably better when we had the focking Sullins twins on the offensive line. And the pass protection was about the same, unless my memory fails me.
i
Am I wrong here? Is our offensive line the greatest thing since the focking 1992 Dallas Cowboys? If it is, then why are we averaging 161 yards rushing per game, which 62nd in the FBS. And 4.6 YPC, which is 51st in the FBS?

Sure, we don't have Jamal Lewis running the ball, but our running backs are abjectly atrocious. And isn't a great OL supposed to make the backs look better? Is it that OL's are just generally overrated in the whole scheme of things and that it's better to have an elite running back and an average OL than a very good OL and average running backs? I'm starting to believe that in the SEC -- where the talent on the defensive lines is what makes our conference better than the rest of the conferences -- that maybe a good OL is overrated. That unless you have the absolutely, unquestionably best offensive line in the entire country, than you're probably just as well off having a mediocre offensive line because they're going to be blasted at the line of scrimmage anyway. Now the last few sentences are just me thinking out loud, so don't hold me to that. Maybe I'm on to something, maybe I'm not. But I don't want that to divert this thread from the main questions of:

1) Is our OL really that good?
2) If no, then will our OL really be that much worse than it is this year?
3) If no, does that make you feel more optimistic about 2014 already?

Yeah the Sullin twins were blocking for 2 NFL RB's. Plus had an NFL QB, an NFL receiver in DMO and an NFL TE in Stocker, Plus Gerald Jones.

what people have failed to realize is this offense has lost a 3 year starter at QB with an elite arm that is playing in the NFL at this time.

We lost the most Dynamic player I would say in Vols Football History in CP, every time he touched the ball he could score didn't matter if it was KO return, Receiving or at RB.

We also lost an NFL receiver in Hunter and NFL TE in Rivera.

If you think our Oline is struggling watch Bama play their OLINE is atrocious . They are winning bc of ELITE play makers which we do not have at this time, They have a really good SR QB, great RB's and elite receivers.

I do not care how good your OLINE is suppose to be you will not win in the SEC without ELITE SKILL PEOPLE.

 

[photovol]

Yeah the Sullin twins were blocking for 2 NFL RB's. Plus had an NFL QB, an NFL receiver in DMO and an NFL TE in Stocker, Plus Gerald Jones.

what people have failed to realize is this offense has lost a 3 year starter at QB with an elite arm that is playing in the NFL at this time.

We lost the most Dynamic player I would say in Vols Football History in CP, every time he touched the ball he could score didn't matter if it was KO return, Receiving or at RB.

We also lost an NFL receiver in Hunter and NFL TE in Rivera.

If you think our Oline is struggling watch Bama play their OLINE is atrocious . They are winning bc of ELITE play makers which we do not have at this time, They have a really good SR QB, great RB's and elite receivers.

I do not care how good your OLINE is suppose to be you will not win in the SEC without ELITE SKILL PEOPLE.

Well Put, You couldn't be more right!

 

[vols1389]

@wesrucker247- "Vols had to take a timeout in 1stH when Peterman tried to flip the protection directly into a blitz. Whole OL turned around and said, "No."

@wesrucker247- "Rajion Neal's 1stQ fumble happened because OL and backfield didn't have the same call. That's why that D-end came free."

The OL is really good. It has a lot to do with the inexperience at QB.

 

[keckjm]

The O-line is average in run blocking, but Neal also misses his holes a lot. Lane also isn't near 100% and that hurts us as well. Hurd and Paulk will hopefully provide some serious RB competition next year that's definitely needed. Mike and Butch can't open up their offense because we don't have the play makers. Helm is going to love playing for Butch as Butch and Mike love running TEs in the slot. It's also something we haven't seen much of because we don't have a TE athletic enough to do it. Mike and Butch also love to run their RBs about a 4:1 split. In 2012, Winn had 243 carriers last year and his back up had 69. In 2011 Pead had 237 and the back up had 84. Our RBs are at a 1:1.5 split with Neal having more carries. That tells me that this staff doesn't have an elite RB they want to get the ball to 70%-75% of the time.

 

[TennesseeOrange]

Pass protection was phenomenal last year. This year it isn't as good, one of the main reasons IMO was losing CP/JH/Rivera, etc. and not having receivers that command respect from the secondary. It seems they're facing many more blitzes, often times with no help from a TE, etc. to block, because secondaries can/will try to cover our receivers man to man. The QB's are then having to really move around to find a pocket and throwing lanes, unlike Bray who usually just got to step up a sling it.

The running game isn't facing nearly as many 8 man boxes as last year. But they're also trying to run block from a spread formation and it's basically 5 v 6/7.

I enjoy hearing these other opinions though.

 

[keckjm]

Pass protection was phenomenal last year. This year it isn't as good, one of the main reasons IMO was losing CP/JH/Rivera, etc. and not having receivers that command respect from the secondary. It seems they're facing many more blitzes, often times with no help from a TE, etc. to block, because secondaries can/will try to cover our receivers man to man. The QB's are then having to really move around to find a pocket and throwing lanes, unlike Bray who usually just got to step up a sling it.

The running game isn't facing nearly as many 8 man boxes as last year. But they're also trying to run block from a spread formation and it's basically 5 v 6/7.

I enjoy hearing these other opinions though.

You are right on all this, but when a team blitzes it's the QB job to check down to small, quick passes. That's what CBJ and Mike want this offense to be, check downs and quick small/medium fast routes. Our QBs can't make blitz reads, nor can they hit WR in stride. Oregon is the most incredible college team I've seen in 4-5 years in disguising blitz schemes. Our QB and C have to recognize those patterns, and right now they just aren't on the same page.

 

[TennesseeOrange]

You are right on all this, but when a team blitzes it's the QB job to check down to small, quick passes. That's what CBJ and Mike want this offense to be, check downs and quick small/medium fast routes. Our QBs can't make blitz reads, nor can they hit WR in stride. Oregon is the most incredible college team I've seen in 4-5 years in disguising blitz schemes. Our QB and C have to recognize those patterns, and right now they just aren't on the same page.

That's true as well. Thought about adding it, but decided not too. Truth is it's hard to simplify/generalize mistakes without being able to watch the film without knowledge of the exact play calls and assignments. Oregon and Florida both had great athletic D-Lines though, and honestly our RB's averaged like 3.5 ypc against Florida, just didn't really get the attempts they probably should have in the 1st half.

 

[keckjm]

That's true as well. Thought about adding it, but decided not too. Truth is it's hard to simplify/generalize mistakes without being able to watch the film without knowledge of the exact play calls and assignments. Oregon and Florida both had great athletic D-Lines though, and honestly our RB's averaged like 3.5 ypc against Florida, just didn't really get the attempts they probably should have in the 1st half.

Florida simply has better players then we do across the board, but Oregon does not have elite D-lineman like FL does. Oregon beat us because they have been well coached the last few years, have tons of speed, and have one of the best DC in college football in Aliotti. You want to beat Oregon you better have a smart QB who can make reads, and you better be able to run the football. Like I said, Oregon has the best disguised defense in the country. They play 3 down lineman in a 2 gap-0 gap-2 gap scheme with a hybrid DE/LB who has tremendous speed. I've never seen a college team put 7-8 guys in the box like they do and still have the ability to out run slot WRs in man to man coverage. They generated pressure all day against us while only sending 4-5 guys, including the 3 down lineman, 80% of the time. They hide their blitzes so well, and they are so disciplined and fast in coverage, that you have no clue who is coming in the blitz and who's dropping from the line of scrimmage into coverage. Tiny said that was one of the biggest reasons that we got beat so bad, as he said they were lost on some of Oregon's blitz disguises.

 

[crunchimusmaximus]

I think it has more o do with nothaving a good QB thret and all of the coaching changes....we would lookmuch better this year IMO if Pittman and Chaney were still here simply because it's difficult to keep changing systems and Pittman was doing a great job with them and Worely is a better fit for Chaney's offense..

 

[keckjm]

I think it has more o do with nothaving a good QB thret and all of the coaching changes....we would lookmuch better this year IMO if Pittman and Chaney were still here simply because it's difficult to keep changing systems and Pittman was doing a great job with them and Worely is a better fit for Chaney's offense..

I like Chaney, and I love Pittman, but Mike and Mahoney have been with Butch all of his years as a head coach. He's bringing stability with him. Worley simply can't throw accurately and he doesn't posses elite arm strength. Worley has to build some confidence and relationships with our WRs so next year we can win 7-8 games some how.

 

[BanditVol]

There is great individual talent on the line (ie Tiny) and they are very experienced - since most have been forced to start since they were freshmen. Not sure they are an elite unit though

Last year they were great at pass protection but they didn't do Peterman any favors Saturday. Something in their style that seems to hold back their run blocking skills. Funny thing is when Simms was QB they were much better at run blocking

The guys for next year may not have as much game experience but I think they will perform well as a unit since they have had time to develop

Im sorry, no offense, but WTF are you talking about? When Simms was QB we averaged 110 yards per game. The stat so far this year is 200 yards per game. Huh???? :ermm:

 

[BanditVol]

Pass protection was phenomenal last year. This year it isn't as good, one of the main reasons IMO was losing CP/JH/Rivera, etc. and not having receivers that command respect from the secondary. It seems they're facing many more blitzes, often times with no help from a TE, etc. to block, because secondaries can/will try to cover our receivers man to man. The QB's are then having to really move around to find a pocket and throwing lanes, unlike Bray who usually just got to step up a sling it.

The running game isn't facing nearly as many 8 man boxes as last year. But they're also trying to run block from a spread formation and it's basically 5 v 6/7.

I enjoy hearing these other opinions though.

Great point on the WRs allowing more blitzes by not being a threat...hadn't thought of that.

 

[BanditVol]

If it is, then why are we averaging 161 yards rushing per game, which 62nd in the FBS. And 4.6 YPC, which is 51st in the FBS?

1) Is our OL really that good?
2) If no, then will our OL really be that much worse than it is this year?
3) If no, does that make you feel more optimistic about 2014 already?

Where did you get those stats? We are averaging 200 yards per game and 5.0 yards per carry, which actually isn't terrible.

1) Depends on what you mean...are they one of the top lines in the country? Yes. Are they playing that well? Maybe not, but 200 yards per game essentially with no passing game is pretty good, actually.
2) I said yes, but yes, the OL will be worse next year...don't know about "much worse" but hopefully skill players will be "much better" to compensate.
3) Not worried about 2014...worried about this season.

 

[jimallvol]

There doing alright but nothing like the hype was saying. And what the bad thing is that we will probably be worse next yr. I'm not going to really expect anything good until 2015.