Is the extortion of an allied country to investigate a political opponent an impeachable offense by the President?

Is the extortion of an allied country to investigate a political opponent an impeachable offense?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 25 61.0%

  • No.

    Votes: 16 39.0%

  • Undecided.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    41
#1
MontyPython

MontyPython

Dorothy Mantooth is a saint!
Joined
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#1
ex·tor·tion

noun

the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
 
#4
#4
tvolsfan said:
“I see your post and raise an unrelated argument.”
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It’s unrelated in that what Obama did wouldn’t be considered extortion. It is related in that it could be considered a criminal act by providing aid to a state sponsor of terrorism.
 
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#6
#6
davethevol said:
Considering that’s part of politics at almost every level, I’d say no. If Obama can give Iran 2 billion in cash without impeachment, then what Trump did should be left alone as well.
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Extorting - or in more diplomatic parlance - urging other countries to do things for our COUNTRY'S gain is, indeed, an expected (and desired) part of politics. What is not expected or desired is the President using taxpayer money - our money - to extort other countries for the President's own PERSONAL gain. That is the issue at hand with Trump. One can make the argument that our returning Iran's money to them (yes, it was THEIR money, not OUR money) wasn't in the best interest of our country, but any suggestions of impropriety whereby this benefited Obama personally rings hollow.
 
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#8
#8
Read the transcript. What "force or threat" did Trump make during the phone call?

The dims have started using the word "bribery" and not extortion recently.

“Stripping away the hyperbole and hysteria, these indisputable pieces of evidence show that there was no ‘Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors,’ as required by the Constitution:

These facts are:
  • The July 25 call summary — the best evidence of the conversation — shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure;
  • President Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call;
  • The Ukrainian government was not aware of a hold on U.S. security assistance at the time of the July 25 call; and
  • President Trump met with President Zelensky and U.S. security assistance flowed to Ukraine in September 2019 — both of which occurred without Ukraine investigating President Trump’s political rivals.”
 
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#11
#11
dezul said:
Read the transcript. What "force or threat" did Trump make during the phone call?

The dims have started using the word "bribery" and not extortion recently.

“Stripping away the hyperbole and hysteria, these indisputable pieces of evidence show that there was no ‘Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors,’ as required by the Constitution:

These facts are:
  • The July 25 call summary — the best evidence of the conversation — shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure; Is a paraphrased transcript the best evidence? Haven’t people who were actually on the call said otherwise?
  • President Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call; Who tf cares what Trump says? When the accused at a trial says “I didn’t do it,” do you just drop everything?
    The Ukrainian government was not aware of a hold on U.S. security assistance at the time of the July 25 call; and I think the point is that the conditionality was implied on the call itself (if you believe that), or immediately prior, so why would the Ukrainian government know beforehand?
    President Trump met with President Zelensky and U.S. security assistance flowed to Ukraine in September 2019 — both of which occurred without Ukraine investigating President Trump’s political rivals.”After the whistleblower complaint had already been submitted? Seems kinda CYA[/B]
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See bold above. Where’s this quote from? I’d like to know who tried to get away with these “facts.” I’m sure some here have followed this more closely than I have, so feel free to correct me where I’m wrong, but some of these have obvious red flags.
 
#12
#12
#13
#13
dezul said:
Read the memo here. See page 2.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/11/12/2019-11-12.memo.to.members.re.impeachment.inquiry.pdf
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That’s more of a political ad than a “memo” (and that’s the correct way to use quotes, as opposed to the memo writing “impeachment inquiry” like the inquiry isn’t really happening), but I guess that’s politics.

A memo that points to “Trump said nothing improper occurred, and that matters” with a straight face should immediately be regarded with suspicion, IMO. But thanks for the link.
 
#14
#14
dezul said:
Read the transcript. What "force or threat" did Trump make during the phone call?

The dims have started using the word "bribery" and not extortion recently.

“Stripping away the hyperbole and hysteria, these indisputable pieces of evidence show that there was no ‘Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors,’ as required by the Constitution:

These facts are:
  • The July 25 call summary — the best evidence of the conversation — shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure;
  • President Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call;
  • The Ukrainian government was not aware of a hold on U.S. security assistance at the time of the July 25 call; and
  • President Trump met with President Zelensky and U.S. security assistance flowed to Ukraine in September 2019 — both of which occurred without Ukraine investigating President Trump’s political rivals.”
Click to expand...

(1) Not conditioned? Trump: "I would like you to do us a favor, though."
(2) Trump says no pressure? WaPo: "President Trump has made 13,435 false or misleading claims over 928 days", August 12, 2019. President Zelensky: Doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him.
(3) False. Catherine Croft, State Department expert on Ukraine, testified its leaders "'Found out very early on’ that the funds had been frozen — a decision the Office of Management and Budget made at Trump’s behest and circulated to other government officials on July 18.”
(4) False. Bloomberg News: "State Department Freed Ukraine Money Before Trump Says He Did", November 9, 2018.
 
#15
#15
MontyPython said:
(1) Not conditioned? Trump: "I would like you to do us a favor, though."
(2) Trump says no pressure? WaPo: "President Trump has made 13,435 false or misleading claims over 928 days", August 12, 2019. President Zelensky: Doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him.
(3) False. Catherine Croft, State Department expert on Ukraine, testified its leaders "'Found out very early on’ that the funds had been frozen — a decision the Office of Management and Budget made at Trump’s behest and circulated to other government officials on July 18.”
(4) False. Bloomberg News: "State Department Freed Ukraine Money Before Trump Says He Did", November 9, 2018.
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Lev Parnas, William Taylor, Alexander Vindman, Gordon Sondland, and IIRC Fiona Hill have all stated that there was an explicit quid pro quo delivered as early as “spring” (Parnas) or July 1 (Vindman, Hill(?), and Sondland). Each of these individuals witnessed or delivered the quid pro quo.

Mick Mulvaney admitted that the aid was tied to investigations.
 
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#20
#20
MontyPython said:
Extorting - or in more diplomatic parlance - urging other countries to do things for our COUNTRY'S gain is, indeed, an expected (and desired) part of politics. What is not expected or desired is the President using taxpayer money - our money - to extort other countries for the President's own PERSONAL gain. That is the issue at hand with Trump. One can make the argument that our returning Iran's money to them (yes, it was THEIR money, not OUR money) wasn't in the best interest of our country, but any suggestions of impropriety whereby this benefited Obama personally rings hollow.
Click to expand...
Lets play this games.

How much Clinton Foundation money and influence played a part in Fusion GPS, Uranium One, etc?
 
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#21
#21
NorthDallas40 said:
No need to. Thus far it’s 7 people really trying hard to sell a loaded narrative, 1 person gullible enough to take the bait, and everybody else wisely choosing to ignore a BS loaded question. I’d guess that ratio will even get wider.
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Funny. People seemed to trip over themselves to vote that they think Baltimore is a shithole.

Nothing about this question is loaded. It’s actually very straightforward.
 
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#24
#24
NorthDallas40 said:
I in fact do believe Baltimore is a shithole. I don’t think that’s a loaded question at all. And yeah I’ve been there several times.
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The point is the answer to the question posed here is obvious. We would all agree if Trump hadn’t been stupid enough to do it.
 
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