Israel bombing the fool out of the Palestinians

#51
#51
666 said:
You're a sick person if you think that you can justify any deaths out of this conflict. Both sides are wrong, and have been wronged. Bombing each other isn't going to help anything.
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I don't disagree with here. I will say that Hamas and other organizations will never let true peace happen there. How is Israel supposed to negotiate peace with organizations whose stated goal is to drive them into the sea?
 
#52
#52
dan4vols said:
The Arab world seems to only understand force. The act of trying to avoid it in preference of peaceful civilized diplomacy seems to offend them. They seem to tactically behave similar to the Japanese in the 40's. Perhaps the time has come again to play the game by their rules, not ours and lay waste in the region. Yes there are innocents that die and suffer because they choose to hide among them virtually using the population as a sheild, but after a large bodycount maybe the non combatant population will not tolerate being used as a sheild and turn on those among them that would cause the trouble to begin with. Make it more costly to not act than to act.
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Which is why Bush should have never taken the nuclear optiion off of the table in Iraq or Afghanistan.
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#54
#54
joevol320 said:
has hussein obama made a comment? i don't think he has. i think he's praying that this will end before 1/20/09.
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I believe he has, nothing really in depth though, I believe he is on vacation.
 
#56
#56
Looks like Israel may be launching a ground offensive.
 
#60
#60
Nizar Rayyan, the Hamas military commander who was killed in Thursday's air raid on his home in the Jabalya refugee camp, was a sworn enemy not only of Israel, but also of the Palestinian Authority and its president, Mahmoud Abbas.

Rayyan, who had four wives and a dozen children, led the Hamas militiamen who defeated Abbas's security forces in the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2007. He is the third most senior Hamas leader to be killed by Israel, after the targeted killings of Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin in March 2004 and his successor, Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a few weeks later.

Hamas leaders stressed that Rayyan's death, while a "painful loss" to their movement, would not affect its determination to continue the fight against Israel.

A Hamas spokesman said he did not rule out the possibility that the PA had asked Israel to kill Rayyan because of his role in the Hamas-Fatah clashes in 2007.

"Sheikh Rayyan was one of the main reasons why many of Abbas's men did not sleep well at night," he said. "They knew that as long as the sheikh was around, they would never be able to return to the Gaza Strip."

A few days before Hamas took full control of the Gaza Strip, Rayyan, dressed in military fatigues and carrying a Kalashnikov assault rifle, declared that he and his supporters were planning to hold Friday prayers inside Abbas's presidential compound in Gaza City.

Rayyan personally led the Hamas militiamen who seized the compound and PA security installations throughout Gaza. He later boasted that the Strip had been "cleansed" of "traitors" and "CIA agents" - a reference to Abbas and his former security chiefs.

A few months later, Rayyan again issued a threat against Abbas. This time he declared that he would soon lead Friday prayers inside Abbas's Mukata compound in Ramallah, an indication of Hamas's intention to extend its control to the West Bank.

That was why PA officials in Ramallah Thursday did not shed tears over his departure from the scene. In fact, some of them privately expressed relief, claiming that he was responsible for the killing of scores of Abbas loyalists in the Gaza Strip during the 2007 "coup."

Many Palestinians saw the killing of Rayyan, 60, as a severe blow to Hamas and its armed wing, Izzadin Kassam. Some Hamas supporters said on Thursday that Rayyan was more significant than Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh or senior Hamas leaders Mahmoud Zahar and Said Siam.

"He was one of the most popular figures in Hamas," said a Palestinian journalist who knew the slain Hamas leader for nearly two decades. "He was the type of leader who would go out with the fighters to confront Israeli tanks and fire rockets at Israel. He loved wearing the military uniform."

Apart from serving as a "spiritual" leader for Hamas's armed wing, Rayyan was also a teacher at the Islamic University in Gaza City. His students referred to him as "The Professor" and described him as a prominent Muslim scholar. One student said Rayyan was Yassin's real successor.

Rayyan was a leading authority on the sayings of the prophet Muhammad (Hadith), and the basement of his four-story house had been turned into a library of more than 5,000 books and documents on Islam.

After Islamic studies at universities in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Sudan, he returned to the Gaza Strip and worked as a preacher in several mosques. His fiery sermons and involvement in incitement and terrorism resulted in four years in an Israeli prison.

When the PA assumed control over the Gaza Strip in 1994, Rayyan was one of the first Hamas members to find himself in a Palestinian prison, together with Zahar and Rantisi.

At the beginning of the second intifada, Rayyan sent one of his sons to carry out a suicide attack in Gush Katif's Elei Sinai in 2001. Two Israelis were killed. Rayyan was also responsible for a series of suicide bombings and attacks inside the Green Line, including the suicide bombing in Ashdod Port in 2004 in which 10 Israelis died.

In recent years, Rayyan served as a liaison between the political leadership of Hamas and Izzadin Kassam. He is even said to have been one of the very few Hamas operatives who knew where IDF soldier St.-Sgt. Gilad Schalit was being held in the Gaza Strip.
 
#61
#61
666 said:
Hamas didn't start launching rockets again recently until Israel broke the most recent treaty.
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How was it that Israel broke the most recent treaty?????

dan4vols said:
The Arab world seems to only understand force. The act of trying to avoid it in preference of peaceful civilized diplomacy seems to offend them. They seem to tactically behave similar to the Japanese in the 40's. Perhaps the time has come again to play the game by their rules, not ours and lay waste in the region. Yes there are innocents that die and suffer because they choose to hide among them virtually using the population as a shield, but after a large body count maybe the non combatant population will not tolerate being used as a shield and turn on those among them that would cause the trouble to begin with. Make it more costly to not act than to act.
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You are about right.

Where our society supposedly upholds truthfulness, Muslims place great value ability to deceive.
 
#62
#62
I think Israel definitely holds the moral high ground in this ongoing conflict, although they are not completely blameless. They could change some of the needless policies that would tone down some of the hate that is directed at them. It's still not a good excuse for the other side to target civilians though, and this is what it is about now.
 
#65
#65
BigPapaVol said:
If weaponary means what I think it means, agreed.
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I just meant that without the U.S., Israel would have never survived this long...or its infancy for that matter.

I view Israel as basically a proxy of the U.S. in these type conflicts, same as Hamas or Hezbollah being proxies of Iran and other ME Islamic states.

The difference being we actually sell our weapons openly to Israel and legitimately care about their plight.
 
#66
#66
rjd970 said:
I just meant that without the U.S., Israel would have never survived this long...or its infancy for that matter.

I view Israel as basically a proxy of the U.S. in these type conflicts, same as Hamas or Hezbollah being proxies of Iran and other ME Islamic states.

The difference being we actually sell our weapons openly to Israel and legitimately care about their plight.
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I think that BMFPV may have been pointing out that you misspelled weaponry as weaponary....
 
#68
#68
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Instead of "You Sank My Battleship", its...

You destroyed my Car Bomb Factory
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Now that is really funny!!!!:good!:

666 said:
Hamas didn't start launching rockets again recently until Israel broke the most recent treaty.
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I don't know where you are getting your information or in the case disinfomation but let me set you straight.

Number of killed and wounded in Israel doubled under cease fire.

Six months of cease fire did nothing. No, wait. Apparently, it encouraged more attacks.

Shootings, stabbings, rocket and missile fire, and a bulldozer attack by Palestinian and Arab terrorists killed 36 Israelis and tourists in Israel in 2008, compared to 12 in 2007 and 29 in 2006, according to a report by Hatzalah Judea and Samaria released over the weekend.

The organization, which provides rapid response first aid in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza border area, also reported a sharp rise in the number of injuries by Kassam rockets, Grads and mortar fire compared to the past two years.

These attacks on Jewish settlements within firing range of Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, wounded 947 in 2008. A total of 464 were wounded in 2007 and 227 in 2006.

A total of 1,683 Kassam rockets fell in Israel near Gaza and another 108 shot from Gaza fell back into Palestinian areas.

In Israel, eight people were killed in 2008 by rocket attacks, 19 were killed in shootings, one person was stabbed to death, one was killed in a suicide bombing, one in a bulldozer attack, and an additional eight soldiers were killed in battle.

There’s a statistic you’ll never see on the mainstream media sites.
 
#69
#69
There’s a statistic you’ll never see on the mainstream media sites.
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That statement could be made about a lot of TRUTH that isn't reported.
 
#70
#70
rjd970 said:
I just meant that without the U.S., Israel would have never survived this long...or its infancy for that matter.

I view Israel as basically a proxy of the U.S. in these type conflicts, same as Hamas or Hezbollah being proxies of Iran and other ME Islamic states.

The difference being we actually sell our weapons openly to Israel and legitimately care about their plight.
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Who's proxy were we when we facilitated the Iranian missiles being placed in Bosnia???

alaVOL said:
That statement could be made about a lot of TRUTH that isn't reported.
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No doubt!!
 
#73
#73
rjd970 said:
We weren't anybody's proxy and I never said we were. Which post are you referring to? I said Israel was a proxy of us.
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Go to an Israeli and tell them they are our proxy. They'll laugh in your face.

I think trying to figure out who broke a cease fire is pretty useless when the cease fire never really occurred. When they world stops picking sides in this thing, only then could it have any hope of being straightened out or at least managed. Fat chance on that one, though.
 
#74
#74
IPorange said:
Go to an Israeli and tell them they are our proxy. They'll laugh in your face.
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So what? Go to a Palestinian and tell them they are a proxy of Iran and they will laugh in your face. It doesn't change the fact that they are though. Both sides in this conflict are getting tacit support from a more powerful ally, directly or indirectly.

I would suspect we care about Gaza the way Iran cares about Gaza, which is to say we don't. The U.S. and Iran both have a side here, and they support whatever interest their respective team does.
 
#75
#75
rjd970 said:
So what? Go to a Palestinian and tell them they are a proxy of Iran and they will laugh in your face. It doesn't change the fact that they are though. Both sides in this conflict are getting tacit support from a more powerful ally, directly or indirectly.

I would suspect we care about Gaza the way Iran cares about Gaza, which is to say we don't. The U.S. and Iran both have a side here, and they support whatever interest their respective team does.
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Don't care to talk about Bosnia do you???

How about the Lebanese who went from an 80% Christian to 20% Christian population due to actions of Islamic/socialists????? Want to discuss that??

If you want to simplify, then here it is plain and simple; the problem is radical islamo/fascist who want to completely dominate the whole world, (killing every last Jew along the way).

Which brings me back to Bosnia, why would the USA abandon moderate, secular Muslim authority in the Balkans in favor of a radical Islamist with a Nazi party history that was backed by Bin-Laden, the Mullahs of Iran, Saudi Wahibists and Mujhahadeen from all over the middle east?????

It doesn't make any sense to me and since you seem to be an apologist for "liberal" politicians, maybe you could explain that in terms I could understand??
 
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