Israel vs Palestinians

[OrangeTsar]

There is a thing called registering to vote

Whew! Thanks for pointing that out. If there is ONE thing we know that is 100% accurate in this country, it is voter registration rolls

 

[Orange_Crush]

The right to vote is explicitly for citizens in the Constitution/amendments, things like due process and freedom of speech aren't limited to citizens

As I recall, the overarching question was, "Are non-citizens due all the Constitutional rights afforded citizens"? A brief look answers that as, "No."

Now, with that answered at a principle level, we can answer more specifics.

And as I've read immigration law (Enemy Aliens Act, supported by the SCOTUS) over the previous couple of weeks, even the "Due Process" claim is false, as Immigration law goes through a completely different court system, with different due process promises. i.e. They can be deported for simple suspicions, associations and even potentials.

The simple fact of the matter is that non-citizens are not afforded all the rights of citizens, including some due process when it affects their residency.

 

[utvolpj]

I get your point. But if there aren’t benefits to being a citizen, why even have citizenship? It is the same concept as a border. Certain things define nationhood. A country defines itself by what is NOT included just as much as what IS.

My point is natural rights shouldn't be viewed as a govt privilege

 

[NashVol11]

Whew! Thanks for pointing that out. If there is ONE thing we know that is 100% accurate in this country, it is voter registration rolls

Accurate enough that all these allegations of millions of "illegals" voting never result in any proof whatsoever

 

[EasternVol]

Now, can you reference where the op-ed has been mentioned anywhere by the WH?

Different case.

 

[Orange_Crush]

My point is natural rights shouldn't be viewed as a govt privilege

But here's the thing. A clear reading of immigration law shows that if a non-citizen, here by privilege, says something that is indicative of support/association/furtherance of certain groups/ideologies, they can be removed. So, while you speak at an ideological level, we're discussing at a legal level.

I guess if being here itself is a privilege, then the other questions about what else is a privilege becomes debate. Obviously the law/SCOTUS seems to see it this way.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Accurate enough that all these allegations of millions of "illegals" voting never result in any proof whatsoever

No proof whatsoever huh?
If only we had something called “the internet” to investigate such claims

The Heritage Foundation's Election Fraud Map

The Heritage Foundation's Election Fraud Map is an interactive tool providing a sampling of proven instances of election fraud across the U.S. From @HeritageDataviz

electionfraud.heritage.org

 

[OrangeTsar]

My point is natural rights shouldn't be viewed as a govt privilege

total agreement there. Apologies

 

[NashVol11]

No proof whatsoever huh?
If only we had something called “the internet” to investigate such claims

The Heritage Foundation's Election Fraud Map

The Heritage Foundation's Election Fraud Map is an interactive tool providing a sampling of proven instances of election fraud across the U.S. From @HeritageDataviz

electionfraud.heritage.org

Yes, none whatsoever. We have things called "courts" to investigate such claims, it's telling that you went with "the internet" instead lmfao

 

[EasternVol]

@n_huffhines @utvolpj and any others who are focused on the constitutional rights of folks here on a guest visa.

I looked it up this morning. People here on a guest visa cannot buy or possess a firearm or ammunition. Are you in favor of them being able to? If the constitution applies to "all people" and not only citizens, why the discrepancy? If the right to bear arms doesn't apply, how sure are you the other BoR apply?

What is a guest visa?
ATF says resident furiners can indeed own guns:

May aliens legally in the United States purchase firearms? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

An alien legally in the U.S. is not prohibited from purchasing firearms unless the alien is admitted into the U.S. under a nonimmigrant visa and does not meet one of the exceptions as provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as possession of a valid hunting license or permit. [18 U.S.C. 922 (d)(5)...

www.atf.gov

 

[Orange_Crush]

Yes, none whatsoever. We have things called "courts" to investigate such claims, it's telling that you went with "the internet" instead lmfao

I'm sure that you're about to stop posting internet rumor accusations until they are vetted by legal rulings?

 

[Smokey123]

Different case.

i asked for a source the op-ed being the reason for detainment and he brought up the flyers. Also said he couldn’t find any source the flyers either

 

[NashVol11]

i asked for a source the op-ed being the reason for detainment and he brought up the flyers. Also said he couldn’t find any source the flyers either

You are indeed very confused. I posted the rest of the flyer because you posted the front cover of it. If you want to take everything Leavitt says at face value you're welcome to, not everyone is so gullible

 

[OrangeTsar]

Yes, none whatsoever. We have things called "courts" to investigate such claims, it's telling that you went with "the internet" instead lmfao

And if you investigated, you would find plenty of convictions by said courts for such crimes. Don’t pretend fraud is nonexistent; which I believe was the original claim to which I objected.

 

[Smokey123]

You are indeed very confused. I posted the rest of the flyer because you posted the front cover of it. If you want to take everything Leavitt says at face value you're welcome to, not everyone is so gullible

And like I’ve said. If she’s lying and there’s no proof he distributed it the case will be thrown out and he won’t be deported. citizens go through this same process too

 

[NashVol11]

And if you investigated, you would find plenty of convictions by said courts for such crimes. Don’t pretend fraud is nonexistent; which I believe was the original claim to which I objected.

How many? You suggested there's proof of millions of illegals voting, so go ahead and let me know how many have been convicted of voter fraud. Doubt you can even find 100

 

[NashVol11]

And like I’ve said. If she’s lying and there’s no proof he distributed it the case will be thrown out and he won’t be deported. citizens go through this same process too

Citizens generally can't be detained for more than 24 hours without being charged with a crime. And when they do take the action toward citizens of just picking people up and finding a charge later, it's usually a pretty terrible thing to do

 

[utvolpj]

But here's the thing. A clear reading of immigration law shows that if a non-citizen, here by privilege, says something that is indicative of support/association/furtherance of certain groups/ideologies, they can be removed. So, while you speak at an ideological level, we're discussing at a legal level.

I guess if being here itself is a privilege, then the other questions about what else is a privilege becomes debate. Obviously the law/SCOTUS seems to see it this way.

Again, I don't believe rights are granted by govt they are only taken away.

 

[EasternVol]

Citizens generally can't be detained for more than 24 hours without being charged with a crime. And when they do take the action toward citizens of just picking people up and finding a charge later, it's usually a pretty terrible thing to do

Not to mention holding them a thousand miles from their friends and family. That's some police state garbage.

 

[Smokey123]

Citizens generally can't be detained for more than 24 hours without being charged with a crime. And when they do take the action toward citizens of just picking people up and finding a charge later, it's usually a pretty terrible thing to do

It’s actually 48-72 hours depending on the state. His detainment is because of rule violations and that give legal right to deport him. Now he’ll have his time in court like any legal case. Sounds like your problem is with the actual law we have in place

 

[McDad]

I think this stuff shows the only thing govt can do for our rights is take them away. If you believe free speech or the right to defend yourself is only given to people born in a specific geography then rights are granted as a function of govt. I believe that's backwards to what the ff espoused (and basic logic)

When we're "spreading democracy" around the globe do we want others to have these rights? If so, why should they not have them within our borders?

understand and agree with the ideal.

What about the right to bear arms? Should a student here on a visa be able to purchase a gun (assuming they are old enough to do so)?

 

[utvolpj]

understand and agree with the ideal.

What about the right to bear arms? Should a student here on a visa be able to purchase a gun (assuming they are old enough to do so)?

Sure and I'm not sure the argument against. Are there no checks when they get the visa? If they're so dangerous why are they allowed in?

I think we need fewer gun laws overall for everyone. The WH tweeted a pic of the VP doing something that is illegal for a citizen to own (unless you pay the 2nd amendment fee). I think we should all enjoy that freedom

 

[Orangeslice13]

The government not being concerned about things like due process and proof of guilt isn't something to brag about

They used due process.
You not liking it is irrelevant

And…..
That’s not what was said that I responded too.

 

[hog88]

understand and agree with the ideal.

What about the right to bear arms? Should a student here on a visa be able to purchase a gun (assuming they are old enough to do so)?

They can buy a gun if they have a hunting license or carry permit.

 

[Orangeslice13]

understand and agree with the ideal.

What about the right to bear arms? Should a student here on a visa be able to purchase a gun (assuming they are old enough to do so)?

When they come here they agree to a standard and a set of rules. One is that their status can be revoked at any time and they have to leave pending any appeal or reapplication.

Did they not understand what that meant?