Israeli PM gives great and smart speech

[Jewbaccah]

So the Israeli PM gives a speech today that basically agrees to everything Obama wants and gets him in hot water with his own party. The tone of the speech was nothing but peaceful. However, the reaction from the PA is as usual we are being forced to murder more people.

This is not unusual and has happened before. So when does it end? When does it become clear enough to the world that the "Palestinians" want no peace and there is no peace process without a much firmer hand on there "culture" and political process. So anyone reading the speech what about it makes you want to go kill people? Maybe you can help me better understand the "Palestinians?"

Full text of PM's Bar Ilan speech | Israel | Jerusalem Post

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So anyone reading the speech what about it makes you want to go kill people? Maybe you can help me better understand the "Palestinians?"

We want to live with you in peace, as good neighbors.

There is your answer. The Palestinians have no desire to live with the Israelis or live with them in peace.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The Palestinian refugee problem must be solved, and it can be solved, as we ourselves proved in a similar situation. Tiny Israel successfully absorbed tens of thousands of Jewish refugees who left their homes and belongings in Arab countries.

I've always wondered why the media has never brought up the fact that Jews living in these other Arab countries were displaced also during all of these conflicts and many had their properties/lands confiscated by the local governments. :ermm:

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It is impossible to expect us to agree in advance to the principle of a Palestinian state without assurances that this state will be demilitarized.

Oh, that ain't gonna fly, either. The liberals here in the US will argue that "... if Israel is able to have arms and defend itself, why can't the PA?" Like Israel has a 60 year history of provoking attacks and not reacting to aggression.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Even Mubarak has come out critical of even recognition of Israel. I think Bibi went bold on setting a grocery list of conditions before Palestinians get their state. I think it was a slap in the face to Obama - "Sure we will concede to your demands but we have our own demands as well." Sorry Obama but concessions are a two way street. And judging by the belligerent response from the Arab world, I'd say the point was made.

 

[Jewbaccah]

It is like kindergarteners and Adults negotiating. The Adult says "ok Jimmy now say your sorry and promise never to hit Mikey again and you can have all the chocolate you want." The kindergartener kicks the adult in the shins and spits in his face claiming he wants to continue to hit Mikey and get his chocolate...This would be the analogy that best fits the cyclical negotiations between Israel and the "Palestinians"/Kindergarteners

 

[MG1968]

Why aren't the Palestinians angry with Jordan? After all, Jordan kicked them out after Yassir Arafat began stirring things up.

 

[hatvol96]

Why aren't the Palestinians angry with Jordan? After all, Jordan kicked them out after Yassir Arafat began stirring things up.

Because Jordan wasn't created to assuage world guilt after World War II.

 

[MG1968]

Because Jordan wasn't created to assuage world guilt after World War II.

so? The territory comprised by the Palestinian Mandate included a helluva lot more real estate than just Israel.

 

[KB5252]

Because Jordan wasn't created to assuage world guilt after World War II.

Isn't this where the Palestinians were also exposed and trained in the art (if you can call it that) of terrorism? I support Israel, even though I believe they are not blameless in regard to their dealings with the Palestinians. Had they included them in their state from the beginning and not been exiled and exposed to the extremists in Jordan things might be a little different today.

 

[KB5252]

Another poster brought this up already but the idea of having land and personal property confiscated is not a new idea in this region of the world. It has been happening for thousands of years.

 

[MG1968]

Isn't this where the Palestinians were also exposed and trained in the art (if you can call it that) of terrorism? I support Israel, even though I believe they are not blameless in regard to their dealings with the Palestinians. Had they included them in their state from the beginning and not been exiled and exposed to the extremists in Jordan things might be a little different today.

there are Arab Muslim members of the Israeli parliament.

 

[KB5252]

there are Arab Muslim members of the Israeli parliament.

I realize this, when so many Palestinians were displaced they sought refuge in Jordan, there they learned how to become terrorists and their hate of Israel was cemented. Had this not happened in this way things would not be the powder keg they are now.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Because Jordan wasn't created to assuage world guilt after World War II.

It was created under the same logic. If the Jews got something, so would the Arabs. If anything Jordan got off free and clear while the Jews had to beg, plead, and fight off invasions to get the same promise that was given to them and the Arabs.

You cannot forget the Palestinians have been treated like gutter trash even by their neighbors for decades. They've been a convenient focal point by their Arab and Muslim 'brothers' for the sole purpose to point fingers at Israel. Beyond that, the Palestinians are conveniently ignored by those who use them as pawns in their political games.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You cannot forget the Palestinians have been treated like gutter trash even by their neighbors for decades. They've been a convenient focal point by their Arab and Muslim 'brothers' for the sole purpose to point fingers at Israel. Beyond that, the Palestinians are conveniently ignored by those who use them as pawns in their political games.

Funny that for the 19 years between 1948 and 1967, Egypt had control of Gaza and Jordan had control of the West Bank, and neither country bothered to create a Palestinian state, nor did they do anything to help to assist the refugees. They've essentially used the Palestinians like stage props for their hated of the Israel.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Because Jordan wasn't created to assuage world guilt after World War II.

You didn't answer the question. It's really not relevent how Israel was created. If the Palestinians are angry about a bunch Jewish refugees pushing them off their land (not my opinion, but an opinion I assume Israeli haters support), then they should be doubly mad about their Arab brothers uprooting these refugees in their time of need and kicking them ot of Jordan.

 

[TrueOrange]

There is your answer. The Palestinians have no desire to live with the Israelis or live with them in peace.

Exactly and agreed.

Unfortunately the "Israel apartheid week" groups sweeping college campuses want everyone to believe otherwise. :glare:

 

[Jewbaccah]

The fact is if we were in a court of law and this was a case based only on remedies assuming fault on both parties. Israel would be owed a huge debt not the other way around. Despite that most Israelis want the "Palestinians" to better themselves and are willing to invest to make that happen simply because it is mutually beneficial. They just don't want them to continue waging war against them with any aid they get. So getting back to the recent speech it shouldn't but still boggles my mind that the reaction to someone telling you "I wanna be your friend and partner but I am not ready for you to have access to knives in the kitchen" is a response with not threats but promises of more killing.

To the comment made here about world guilt creating Israel maybe to a degree in its sustained health but in its creation it is not the case at all. The US as a government and Europe all sided with the Arabs. The weapons were bought through private donations from the US (by Jews mostly or some christians) and were mostly German hand me downs from WWII. They had to be stored in Cyprus until the British left because they wanted us to lose as did the US/Truman. Israel was not allowed any weaponry until the British were gone and left helpless. Israel secretly stored weapons on Cyprus and other islands and had the boats ready. The paper agreement was merely that to them. Israel was created based on private donations and there own ingenuity.

Now I agree that US aid as a government is a major factor in its sustained capabilities. But in 1948 it was quite the opposite. Privately Israel was rooted for, especially by Republicans, but officially and financially the Arabs were backed at that time by our government. Once we won the Independence War things changed dramatically, whereas the US now had a true friend in the middle east that had proven its metal. And the fact Truman left office--it was the Republicans who supported Israel at the time--Dewey in particular--Truman was not a friend to Israel.

Truman and US Support for Israel

 

[CSpindizzy]

Don't forget that in 1948, many of the British officers refused to go home with the rest of the British presence. They instead signed on with neighboring nations and Palestinian Arab groups to train them how to fight. Britain had more sympathies with the Arabs but yet did nothing and passed on any sort of aid. The US and USSR were the only powers leaning to any sort of feelings or support of Jews.

 

[tvolsfan]

There is your answer. The Palestinians have no desire to live with the Israelis or live with them in peace.

Do you know that for sure, or are you just assuming that's how it is. I know people from that region that claim that the vast majority of people just want peace. I don't think you can just make the generalization about all Palestinians.

 

[tvolsfan]

There will always be at least some Palestinians hostile to the Israelis. That's not necessarily a result of them being bad people, it's the result of displacing a whole group of innocent people to make up for another countries wrongdoings.

 

[Jewbaccah]

There will always be at least some Palestinians hostile to the Israelis. That's not necessarily a result of them being bad people, it's the result of displacing a whole group of innocent people to make up for another countries wrongdoings.[/QUOTE

Hmm..so we could play the who was displaced first game or the Jews have been the majority population in Jerusalem since 1840...or the no one is stopping them but themselves from going anywhere building business etc...and again this whole Israel was created out of guilt thing is a joke and honestly ignorant. The Balfour declaration was in 1917. And do you mean multiple countries or one country's?

So when the Jews started moving back to Israel in the 13th century and they bought land with there own money that was somehow a favor? Or after 1492 when many Spanish Jews returned that was a favor? No one funded it. All on their own they came back. And then again in the 19th century when a major move back began to the point of making Jews the majority in many areas that was a favor? All of this was done with private Jewish funds and hard work. Hmm...and when the Jews from Poland came from 1900-1918 and turned swamp into farm land that was a favor? So how did anyone else help? Oh wait 1948 nope I already shot that one down for you. Hmm...geez where is all this help Jews got? Maybe in 1967 when Israel used its own intelligence and blood to fight off multiple armies you were there? The USA? Anyone? I do not remember that part.

So are you referring to the weapons sold to us. That is business and they are sold to all-Syria and Egypt included, Israel is just better at using them.

And so do Native Americans who have way more of a gripe go around killing and bombing us? And if they did what would be the appropriate response?

The entire argument of Israel's creation by guilt is a lie a dirty lie. It is something Americans say to make them feel better about basically doing nothing. Not that America owed Israel anything but they certainly have not given anything to Israel that was not paid for.

 

[Brog]

Of course it probably made a little more room for the all those incoming Jews in 1948 when they forced 700,000 Palestinians out of their homes.

 

[Jewbaccah]

Of course it probably made a little more room for the all those incoming Jews in 1948 when they forced 700,000 Palestinians out of their homes.

When did they do that? Did they go door to door or what? Any facts would be great? Was it like a notice? Eye staring contest? Bet you find no one was "forced" out of anywhere. Oh but the Arabs did do exactly what you are saying to many Jews all over the Middle East. I bet you were thinking of that. Here you go here is an article to refresh your memory.

History Of Jews In Arab Countries: Before and after 1948

 

[CSpindizzy]

I love the use of the 700K number. No one mentions the fact the Palestinians have been passed around among their Arab brothers to live in tents for decades in refugee camps. Look at Gaza now. Egypt had to build a wall to keep them out as if they were vermin. Jordan's benevolent royal family keeps them pushed as far away from them as possible.

Jews are a convenient scapegoat for mistreatment of Palestinians. But no one mentions the mistreatment by their own brothers in faith and culture. You'd figure all of those billions from the Persian Gulf and millions being raised for terrorism that something substantial could be given to the Palestinians. Frankly, I think many of the voices from the Arab world would rather pimp out the Palestinians and leave them in poverty to keep using as a tool to blame Israel for all ills in the region.