it seems the cali judge has a good reason to overturn.

#201
#201
CSpindizzy said:
Like I said, some humans drop below that threshold, whatever Webster says it is. Guess they lose their rights after that.
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Haha, it isn't that they lose their rights. It is that they are found to be unable to give consent, have guardian, etc. C'mon, now.
 
#204
#204
I don't care if gay people want to get married, but comparing gay marriage to the Civil Rights Movement is silly.
 
#207
#207
Well you were the one making such a big deal about me proving it. So morality can be used to treat people differently? Are we back on the morality train today? Just making sure since you hit both sides of that issue before. It's difficult to debate with the moving target.

With the above statement do you protest all of the other treatments of difference from the government?
 
#209
#209
CSpindizzy said:
Well you were the one making such a big deal about me proving it. So morality can be used to treat people differently? Are we back on the morality train today? Just making sure since you hit both sides of that issue before. It's difficult to debate with the moving target.

With the above statement do you protest all of the other treatments of difference from the government?
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Jesus Christ, dude. You don't want to actually lay a claim to a stance, and just attack mine. With the line of thinking you are serving out, you could be arguing for and against at the same time.

I never said morality can or can't be used to treat people differently-- that is just what people who want to treat them differently are basing their opinion on: homosexuality and gay marriage is immoral. And I don't think one's personal morals should be used to legislate treating others unequally. Now, is that avoiding your question? You probably think so.

I am not on a morality train. That seems to be the crux of the issue: should one's personal morality be legislated onto other people, if the matter at hand is personal and doesn't affect anyone else?

It isn't a debate if one party doesn't even take a stance on the issue, and attempt to support it with reasoning.
 
#210
#210
The parallels between the several aspects of the civil rights era and the current gay rights era are uncanny. Right down to people getting all worked up about what the movement is doing, and then at the same time minimizing it as no big deal.
 
#211
#211
The lynchings, dogs, beatings, murder, kidnappings all over a right to marry. Very uncanny. A right to get a piece of paper certified by a state versus a right to actually live as a human being. While we may be talking civil rights, your comparison is as far fetched as you can get. Just because something is in the same general category, it doesn't mean they are comparable.
 
#212
#212
CSpindizzy said:
The lynchings, dogs, beatings, murder, kidnappings all over a right to marry. Very uncanny. A right to get a piece of paper certified by a state versus a right to actually live as a human being. While we may be talking civil rights, your comparison is as far fetched as you can get. Just because something is in the same general category, it doesn't mean they are comparable.
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Shall I place links to gays being beaten, lynched, and murdered for simply being gay?
 
#213
#213
IPorange said:
Shall I place links to gays being beaten, lynched, and murdered for simply being gay?
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Ahhh...Yes. The deflection comes. In record time I might add. Weren't we discussing gay marriage here? I mean staying on topic is what you like throwing at me. Now we want to broaden it out a little.
 
#214
#214
Just because there is not as much physical violence against gays, does not mean its not comparable to the Civil Rights movement.
 
#215
#215
Believe we are talking about gay rights movement, and how they compare to the civil rights movement. You can do better than this.
 
#217
#217
IPorange said:
Believe we are talking about gay rights movement, and how they compare to the civil rights movement. You can do better than this.
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there is no comparison between the two. The "right" to marry isn't the same as the right to vote, ending segregation and Jim Crow, and so on.

I've said it before, gay marriage advocates should team up with the Libertarians in a joint effort to get the government out of the marriage business altogether. Let the government have it's civil union as a matter of contract law and taxation and let the church have marriage.
 
#218
#218
MG1968 said:
I don't care if gay people want to get married, but comparing gay marriage to the Civil Rights Movement is silly.
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Here IP. Perhaps reading something again will help you. This is what was said that you responded to. We're here talking about Prop8 and gay marriage. MG commented on that. And suddenly you want to broaden it out. WE are talking about something you can't even stay focused on.
 
#219
#219
MG1968 said:
there is no comparison between the two. The "right" to marry isn't the same as the right to vote, ending segregation and Jim Crow, and so on.

I've said it before, gay marriage advocates should team up with the Libertarians in a joint effort to get the government out of the marriage business altogether. Let the government have it's civil union as a matter of contract law and taxation and let the church have marriage.
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This is no longer on the table. The rendering by Walker if upheld by SCOTUS takes this off the table. It is now in the domain of the feds and they will have to now define marriage. Seeing as how IP cannot even come up with a legally binding definition, I cannot wait to see how the new definition will be drawn up. Because we don't want to be unequal and deprive any consenting parties their rights.
 
#220
#220
IPorange said:
Believe we are talking about gay rights movement, and how they compare to the civil rights movement. You can do better than this.
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Could you compare a bowel movement?

It is a movement?

You can compare many things that have similarities. Equal to is where the stretch in this situation begins.

The difference I see in the 2.

Civil Rights was not fought for the rights for whoever to marry. It was basically fought for the right to exist in some cases. The gay marriage issue is just that, a marriage issue.

Nobody is telling them they can't be gay. I have seen some post on here, and in other discussions on how being gay is not a choice, you are born that way. Some agree, some disagree. I honestly feel like that is a decision you make for yourself. The major reason for those trampled in the Civil Rights era had nothing to do with a decision they made.
 
#221
#221
BeecherVol said:
Could you compare a bowel movement?

It is a movement?

You can compare many things that have similarities. Equal to is where the stretch in this situation begins.

The difference I see in the 2.

Civil Rights was not fought for the rights for whoever to marry. It was basically fought for the right to exist in some cases. The gay marriage issue is just that, a marriage issue.

Nobody is telling them they can't be gay. I have seen some post on here, and in other discussions on how being gay is not a choice, you are born that way. Some agree, some disagree. I honestly feel like that is a decision you make for yourself. The major reason for those trampled in the Civil Rights era had nothing to do with a decision they made.
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What you are saying is you think gays chose to be gay, therefore they get what they get?

I'm sorry, but why would someone choose to be gay? When did you choose to be straight?
 
#222
#222
IPorange said:
I'm sorry, but why would someone choose to be gay?
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You make it sound as if it a curse. "Man, who would want to be like that?"

There are people who 'choose' to be gay. Unless you are alleging those people aren't TRULY gay.
 
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#223
#223
IPorange said:
What you are saying is you think gays chose to be gay, therefore they get what they get?

I'm sorry, but why would someone choose to be gay? When did you choose to be straight?
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Nice spin.

There are gays that will tell you it was a decision for them, and not that they were born that way. What right do you have to decide if they were born that way? I knew of a fellow that married, had kids, divorced and is now gay. How does that fit into the all gays are born that way?
As to the bold, do you think it is a disease, or burden they bear? The ones I have come in contact with are very proud of being gay.
 
#224
#224
BeecherVol said:
Nice spin.

There are gays that will tell you it was a decision for them, and not that they were born that way. What right do you have to decide if they were born that way? I knew of a fellow that married, had kids, divorced and is now gay. How does that fit into the all gays are born that way?
As to the bold, do you think it is a disease, or burden they bear? The ones I have come in contact with are very proud of being gay.
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Gay people overwhelmingly say they are born that way. Some try to pretend they are not and live straight, but eventually quit fighting who they are.

I don't think it is a disease. It is just a behavioral trait. It is a burden in our society and time.
 
#225
#225
IPorange said:
Gay people overwhelmingly say they are born that way. Some try to pretend they are not and live straight, but eventually quit fighting who they are.

I don't think it is a disease. It is just a behavioral trait. It is a burden in our society and time.
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Is there a poll that this comes from? And is this their response as to a gut feeling or their knowledge of science saying this?
 
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