Ivan (Pudge) Rodriguez retires

#26
#26
slh1089 said:
How is Bonds concretely better than Aaron in your opinion? Out of BA, RBI, HR and HITS Bonds only holds the HR over Aaron.
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SB, GG, MVPs, OBP. Hank played 46 years..he accrued some nice counting numbers. Not saying he was bad at all, bonds is better.
 
#27
#27
Because there are more, and better, statistics than what you just said.
 
#30
#30
They're fine indicators of a career. And Aaron had a great career.

They're not the only indicators. RBIs aren't a good stat. You're acting like Aaron CRUSHES Bonds in average. He doesn't. Bonds does crush Aaron in OBP and Slugging, though.

OBP, Slugging, OPS, stolen bases, among others, are better.

Aaron's peak year was +9.4 WAR... Bonds has 7 seasons better than that. And two more at +9.1 and +9.2 WAR.
 
#31
#31
slh1089 said:
Bonds was an out right cheater that lied about it. Caused a very large black eye on the sport and took away a record that someone better than him deserves. There should always be an asterisk next to that man's name.
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Agreed. Kinda funny his head grew to a point he needed a larger hat/batting helmet.
 
#32
#32
Dbake005 said:
They're fine indicators of a career. And Aaron had a great career.

They're not the only indicators. RBIs aren't a good stat. You're acting like Aaron CRUSHES Bonds in average. He doesn't. Bonds does crush Aaron in OBP and Slugging, though.

OBP, Slugging, OPS, stolen bases, among others, are better.

Aaron's peak year was +9.4 WAR... Bonds has 7 seasons better than that. And two more at +9.1 and +9.2 WAR.
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How are walks a better stat than RBI or hit? Did I say he destroyed Bonds in BA? Nope. Also the fact you are leaving out is Bonds did a lot of this with PED's. Aaron did none of that and put up better numbers in a decent amount of categories while not trailing by much in others. Again, I never said I didn't think Bonds was a good player, but it comes down to the point he cheated. I would want a little league coach telling my brother or son that it doesn't matter that he cheated as long as he was good.
 
#33
#33
Idk when Bonds started "using." You don't either.
But, he had a +10.1 WAR, +9.8 WAR, and +10.6 WAR season in 1990, 1992, and 1993. All better than any season Aaron had.

Where on earth did I say walks are a better stat than Hits?
 
#34
#34
Dbake005 said:
Idk when Bonds started "using." You don't either.
But, he had a +10.1 WAR, +9.8 WAR, and +10.6 WAR season in 1990, 1992, and 1993. All better than any season Aaron had.

Where on earth did I say walks are a better stat than Hits?
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Misread. Thought you included it in your "amongst other stats" comment. And we know he was definitely using by 2003
 
#36
#36
TBrown said:
Agree regarding the eras. That's why there will never be a GOAT imo
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Yes there is. Babe Ruth and it's not close. He still holds records batting and as a pitcher. He threw 29 scorless world series innings for Boston. And we all know about his bat. He is the greatest ball player of all time.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#37
#37
Bonds was definitely a roid user, there's little question to me that he was. But that has little to do with him being in the HOF. Even without the roids, he is seriously one of the best hitters ever.

As much as I can't stand him because he's a jackass, keeping him out of the Hall is stupid.
 
#38
#38
True.cheers (I would do top of the hat emoji but I'm on a phone). Always enjoy a good debate.
 
#39
#39
He would be number 1 for me. But, really, you don't think Bonds... or a few others probably... could have gone and utterly destroyed some baseball back in the day? I'd love to be able to see.
 
#40
#40
VolsSportsFan said:
Bonds was definitely a roid user, there's little question to me that he was. But that has little to do with him being in the HOF. Even without the roids, he is seriously one of the best hitters ever.

As much as I can't stand him because he's a jackass, keeping him out of the Hall is stupid.
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I understand that. I just have a hard time going along with the "well it's ok you cheated just because you are good" thinking.
 
#41
#41
Dbake005 said:
He would be number 1 for me. But, really, you don't think Bonds... or a few others probably... could have gone and utterly destroyed some baseball back in the day? I'd love to be able to see.
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Oh for sure. I think it got construed that I dont respect his game and ability. I most definitely do.
 
#42
#42
slh1089 said:
I understand that. I just have a hard time going along with the "well it's ok you cheated just because you are good" thinking.
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It's not quite that black and white; plus you can argue everyone was cheating so unless you're prepared to pretty much keep an entire generation of players out of the Hall, then you have to put him in.
 
#43
#43
VolsSportsFan said:
It's not quite that black and white; plus you can argue everyone was cheating so unless you're prepared to pretty much keep an entire generation of players out of the Hall, then you have to put him in.
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But we do know that he took them in at least 2003.
 
#44
#44
Might have to keep Maddux Glavine and Smoltz out too. And everyone else who ever may have taken steroids. And... nobody knows when that began.
 
#45
#45
You are still failing to see that we know that Bonds has taken steroids. Also, this wouldn't be as big of a deal if he had just come clean. Petite, Arod
 
#46
#46
VolBeef88 said:
Yes there is. Babe Ruth and it's not close. He still holds records batting and as a pitcher. He threw 29 scorless world series innings for Boston. And we all know about his bat. He is the greatest ball player of all time.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Half the guys he pitched against probably wouldn't make HS teams today. Cmon, it's impossible to compare these eras.
 
#47
#47
We don't know who has, who hasn't, or when it started. If they're good enough to be in the hall, they should be. But the writer's association may go ahead and keep some greats out.
 
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