JAG officer sentenced to prison.

[NEO]

Why was my post deleted?

I was named in the Op and answered.

 

[IPorange]

Why was my post deleted?

I was named in the Op and answered.

What was your post (paraphrased)?

 

[gsvol]

You cannot "answer" my post, as there exist no questions in my post. My post is completely factual and is how the system works in the Army. Your "questions" are rhetorical garbage.

Well I consider your opinion to be rhetorical garbage
so I suppose we are even in that category.

As usual you present your opinion as the word in a
weird egotistical manner yet won't ever answer any
questions about your opinionated view.

The last time I went to the war archives to research
something, as I sat to wait, I picked up a book and
one of the chapters which I read detailed the story
of an Army Major during the Vietnam conflict who
replied to a reporter's question about field reports
with the answer; "What good does it do me to file
a field report that is going to end up on the desk of
some communist in Washington?"

The Secretary of the Navy issued a direct order to
the Major, bypassing all chain of command, to report
back to his own home (in Colorado) and standby and
not speak with the press again.

When his time was up he was given an honorable
discharge and denied the right to stay in the Army.

You know politics plays a role and when you get down
to the most basic dichotomy of the situation, it is worse than rhetorical garbage for you to deny it, especially
to demonize a good soldier. There is a word for people
like you and not at all a good word.

For those of you are more interested in Alan West
without unreal's blanket condemnation and demonization:

No Court-Martial for Lt. Col. West - Marine Corps Community for USMC Marine Veterans

Fourth Infantry Division commander Maj. Gen. Raymond
Odierno relieved West of command of his battalion
following an incident on Aug. 20 where he compelled an
Iraqi detainee to reveal details of a planned ambush by
twice firing his 9 mm. Sidearm close to the Iraqi’s head.

The incident has become a major headache for the
Army, which has reportedly received thousands
of letters and emails from veterans and ordinary
citizens incensed over an officer being punished
for taking steps to safeguard the lives of his
soldiers in a guerrilla combat zone.

An Iraqi informant reported that there was an
assassination plot against West, an artillery officer
working with the local governing council in Saba al Boor
near Tikrit in the “Sunni Triangle” of Iraq. The informant
told soldiers that one person involved in the attack was
a town policeman.

West had the policeman placed in a detention center
but interrogators had no luck at first, so West decided
to take over the questioning himself.
---------------------------------------

West said the gunshots spurred the Iraqi to
provide the location of the planned sniper
attack and the names of three Iraqi guerrilla
fighters.

West was charged with a single count of aggravated
assault under Article 128 of the Uniform Code of Military
Justice, which describes assault as: “Any person subject
to this chapter who attempts or offers with unlawful
force or violence to do bodily harm to another person,
whether or not the attempt or offer is consummated, is
guilty of assault and shall be punished as a court-martial
may direct.”

The 4th Infantry Division prosecutor offered West two
choices: Resign now, short of his 20-year retirement
eligibility tomorrow, or face criminal proceedings that
could lead to a trial. The assault charge carries a
maximum penalty of eight years in prison.

An article 15 conviction is usually considered a career-
killing event, but Odierno’s decision by to relieve West
of his battalion command had already done that. West
plans to retire from the Army once the proceedings
have finished.

“It’s extremely good news,” said attorney Neal Puckett,
who defended the officer at a pretrial hearing last
month. “This is what we think the Army should have
done from the very beginning,” Puckett said.

Some libtard wonks try to describe me as a bigot etc,
as they always do when the can't hold up their end
of most all debates but I tell you I would vote for
either a Cain/West or a West/Cain ticket next year
over the sorry two POSs we now have in the White
House doing everything they can to wreck everything.

 

[gsvol]

Why was my post deleted?

I was named in the Op and answered.

Sh!t happens.

Sometimes there is somone who doesn't like the way
the discussion is going so he deletes posts that don't
agree with is point of view.

The same thing can happeh with a whole thread which
has 75 posts already.

Go figga!

 

[therealUT]

This is GSVol's attempt to try to make it seem as though West's investigation was somehow a result of some pervert lawyer. GS fails to understand that 15-6 Investigations are not conducted by lawyers; they are conducted by Officers in the unit. These Officers investigate the facts, interview witnesses, and propose to the Commanding Officer what action should be taken. The only process JAG has in Article 15s is to review the findings and make sure there are no leaps made without evidence to support.

.

 

[BearCat204]

Sh!t happens.

Sometimes there is somone who doesn't like the way
the discussion is going so he deletes posts that don't
agree with is point of view.

The same thing can happeh with a whole thread which
has 75 posts already.

Go figga!

You seriously need to get rid of that tin foil hat you are always wearing.

 

[KiffinKiller]

gsvol is the biggest hypocrite in existence. Calling someone out for blanket statements and condemnation...pot meet kettle - you waste of human life.

 

[gsvol]

gsvol is the biggest hypocrite in existence. Calling someone out for blanket statements and condemnation...pot meet kettle - you waste of human life.

Clue, don't apply for work with the diplomatic corps.

 

[therealUT]

This is GSVol's attempt to try to make it seem as though West's investigation was somehow a result of some pervert lawyer. GS fails to understand that 15-6 Investigations are not conducted by lawyers; they are conducted by Officers in the unit. These Officers investigate the facts, interview witnesses, and propose to the Commanding Officer what action should be taken. The only process JAG has in Article 15s is to review the findings and make sure there are no leaps made without evidence to support.

.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Tenacious D]

So a unit's morale was getting low and the commanding
officer gave a gung ho pep talk and at the end asked
for questions, one soldier raised his hand and when
called upon asked; "Sir, what if the weakest link
is the CIC??"

And JAG had nothing to do with the Leavenworth Ten.
Yeah right.

And there is no pressure by JAG on 'fellow' officers'
to not give up a sacrificial lamb once in a while??

Don’t shoot as you’ll wake up Afghans, soldiers told | Defence / Terrorism



American soldiers now can recieve a medal for
'courageous restraint,' one can only wonder how
long it will be before they can proudly display
an 'outstanding dicksucker' award.

I am not familiar with this award - I can only assume that it's for "Outstanding Recruiting Prognostications"
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[therealUT]

I am not familiar with this award - I can only assume that it's for "Outstanding Recruiting Prognostications"
Posted via VolNation Mobile

The award does not exist.

 

[IPorange]

I am not familiar with this award - I can only assume that it's for "Outstanding Recruiting Prognostications"
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Well played.

 

[gsvol]

Remember when Kerry was running for president and
one of his fellow servicemen introduced him at the
Democrat convention and then said all the Swift Boaters
were lying?? Can't remember his name.

Well he also ended up doing time on kiddie porn charges.

Now the Navy has decided to rescind his Silver Star
award because he obtained it under false pretenses.

How appropriate, now if they would do the same to
Kerry.

So West scared a guy into telling where an ambush
was planned, big deal.

I knew a young guy who pulled a tour in Tikrit, Saddam
Hussein's home town, where attacks on Americans were
especially viscious and frequent.

He was in street intelligence with a Styker brigade.

He opted out of the service rather than pull a second
tour, mostly because of all the PC bullcrap that some
try to denegrate Alan West with.

His stepdad, a Nam veteran was a little POed at him
but I said; 'it's his life, let him do what he wants.'

Some of our ROIs appear to have been written by some
pervert of some kind.

 

[therealUT]

This is GSVol's attempt to try to make it seem as though West's investigation was somehow a result of some pervert lawyer. GS fails to understand that 15-6 Investigations are not conducted by lawyers; they are conducted by Officers in the unit. These Officers investigate the facts, interview witnesses, and propose to the Commanding Officer what action should be taken. The only process JAG has in Article 15s is to review the findings and make sure there are no leaps made without evidence to support.

.

 

[KiffinKiller]

Good thing gs was there with fatherly advice for his stepdad. When's the next story?

 

[gsvol]

.

unrealUT would have you believe there are no lawyers in Army CID. :loco:

A closer look at the Leavenworth Ten:

The Leavenworth 10 - Support Michael Leahy Jr

1LT Michael Behenna

On March 20th, 2009, Army Ranger 1st Lieutenant Michael Behenna was sentenced to 25 years in prison for killing Ali Mansur, a known Al Qaeda operative while serving in Iraq. Mansur was known to be a member of an Al Qaeda cell operating in the lieutenant’s area of operation and was suspected to have organized an attack on Lt. Behenna’s platoon in April 2008 which killed two U.S. soldiers and injured two more. Army intelligence ordered the release of Mansur and Lt. Behenna was ordered to return the terrorist to his home.

During the return of Mansur, Lt. Behenna again questioned the Al Qaeda member for information about other members of the terrorist cell, and financial supporters. During this interrogation, Mansur attacked Lt. Behenna, who killed the terrorist in self-defense. The government subsequently prosecuted Lt. Behenna for premeditated murder.

Not only is this a miscarriage of justice on the behalf of Lt. Behenna, who was acting to prevent further loss of life in his platoon, it is demoralizing to the U.S. troops who continue to fight on behalf of the freedom and security of our nation. Whether it is U.S. border patrol agents, members of the armed forces, or FBI agents, no individual who is serving on the frontlines in the War on Terror should be so blatantly mistreated.
-------------------------------
February 23, 2009: Lt. Behenna’s trial begins
Government and defense experts agree on the trajectory of the bullets killing Mansur
Prosecution expert Dr. Herbert MacDonnell initiated contact with defense attorneys explaining his agreement with the testimony of Lt. Behenna and his presentation to prosecutors supporting Lt. Behenna’s version of events.

Dr. MacDonnell is not called to testify in the case and instead is sent home. Just before leaving the courthouse he picks up his coat from the prosecution room and says to the three prosecutors (Megan Poirier, Jason Elbert, and Erwin Roberts), ‘The explanation that Lt Behenna just testified to was the exact same scenario I told you yesterday. Lt Behenna is telling the truth.’

Jack Zimmermann, defense counsel, asks prosecutors if they have any exculpatory evidence that should be provided to the defense (referring to Dr. MacDonnell’s demonstration).

Prosecutors deny having any such evidence despite having been told by their own expert witness that Lt Behenna’s explanation was the only logical explanation.

Prosecutors withholding of this evidence allowed them to argue that Lt. Behenna executed Ali Mansur while seated when the forensic experts, including Dr. MacDonnell, agree that Ali was standing with his arms outstretched when shot

Lt. Behenna is convicted of unpremeditated murder and assault by a military panel of seven officers, none of whom had combat experience.

Dr. MacDonnell contacts prosecution requesting that the information provided in his demonstration be given to the defense.

Prosecutors provide such information after a verdict was rendered, but prior to sentencing.

At the request of the presiding judge, Dr. MacDonnell provides his information to the court via telephone.

The judge orders both sides in the case to file briefs relating to a possible mistrial

After reading the briefs the judge set an additional hearing and ordered additional briefs, including one from the defense requesting a new trial.

On March 20, the judge denied defense motions to declare a mistrial and to order a new trial

1SG John Hatley

U.S. Army Master Sergeant John E. Hatley was sentenced to life in prison for the alleged killing of four unidentified insurgents.

The four men these Soldiers were convicted of murdering were never identified by name, nor were their bodies found. There was also no ballistics or forensic evidence found to support the men were killed.
-----------------------

This area was made up of over 1 million Iraqi and was the second most violent sector of Baghdad at that time (pre-surge). It was the most violent area patrolled by 1-18IN. This sector (West Rasheed) experienced extreme sectarian violence.

Attacks on American Soldiers were among the highest the war had seen, as well as attacks on fellow Iraqi’s.

Several Iraqi’s being detained by US Soldiers were subsequently released, only to be detained again after engaging Soldiers again. The reasons these Iraqi’s were originally released are many and complicated.

SFC Joseph Mayo

April 30, 2009 SFC Joseph Mayo plead guilty to premeditated murder and conspiracy to commit premeditated murder. Due to a pre trial agreement he was sentenced to 35 years with the possibility of parole in 10 years and received a dishonorable discharge. In June 2009 Joe was granted clemency by the convening authority and his sentence was reduced to 20 years with the possibility of parole in 6 years and 8 months, with his discharge changed to a bad conduct discharge.

Although SFC Mayo pleaded guilty, the four men these soldiers were convicted of murdering were never identified by name, nor were their bodies found.

What douchebag defense attorney convinced Mayo to plead guilty even though there wasn't enough evidence to convict?

SPC William Hunsaker

Hunsaker began his tour in Iraq 7 Aug 2005. During a mission named "Iron Triangle," SPC Hunsaker and three other soldiers (SSGT Girouard, PFC Clagett, SPC Graber) were given an illegal order which resulted in the death of three al-Qaida detainees. Hunsaker was charged and convicted of two counts of premeditated murder and conspiracy to commit murder. He received an 18 year sentence as a result of a plea bargain and is now serving that sentence at Fort Leavenworth Disciplinary Barracks in Fort Leavenworth, KS.

The colonel who gave the rules of engagement, the order to "KILL ALL MILITARY AGE MALES," was not charged because he exercised the fifth amendment right1 and did not testify against himself.

Prior to this incident, the first sergeant who asked, in reference to the detainees, "why are they still alive?" and gave the order to kill the male detainees, was under investigation for war crimes. Those charges have been dropped, and he is now with his family and serving in Germany.

"The way to have good soldiers is to treat them rightly...
A private soldier has as much right to
justice as a major general."
Abraham Lincoln 1809-1865

Sergeant Evan Vela Carnahan

In Iraq, Sgt. Vela Carnahan served as a member of a sniper squad which operated behind enemy lines for over nine continuous months in one of Iraq’s most dangerous areas, a hostile Sunni Arab region south of Bagdad near Iskandariyah, known as the “Triangle of Death”.
-------------------------

The increase in kills, according to Staff Sgt. Michael Hensley’s testimony, was due in part to the reduction of the restrictive Rules of Engagement. The new standard given to him by commanding officers was that anyone deemed a threat was to be eliminated, regardless of whether they were armed or unarmed.

In addition, the kill rate also increased because of a classified new baiting technique that used fake explosives and detonation wires as “bait” to lure and kill suspected insurgents. In late January this “baiting program” was introduced to Staff Sgt. Hensley and a select few members of the 1st Battalion.

According to sworn statements from former platoon leader, Captain Matthew Didier, the U.S. Military’s Asymmetric Warfare Group visited the unit in January 2007 and asked about placing weapons at locations near Iskandariyah. In Didier’s statement, “A few days later the Battalion Operations officer came to us with items (fake detonation cord, C-4, wires, AK-47 rounds, AK-47 magazines) we could place in or around known cache areas or likely cache spots". “If we happened to see the individuals take the items we would engage the enemy to destroy an enemy." The Army has declined to confirm that the baiting program exists.
-------------------------

The unit hiked under the cover of night carrying 150-lb. rucksacks and crossing several marshy canals with chest-high water to reach their destination by dawn. At their destination, they immediately broke into two or three man teams to conduct surveillance all day long in the 120 degree heat, while trying to conserve the three or four liters of water per man they had carried in. Some of the men, in order to just stay mobile and to fight off severe headaches began administering hydrating IV’s. By the end of the second day, in addition to suffering from exhaustion, the men were suffering from dehydration and the effects of acute sleep deprivation. The soldiers were not allowed to sleep more than fifteen minutes at a time, and by the fourth day, the day of the shooting, they had slept no more than 3-4 hours over the previous 78-hour period.

On Friday May 11th, 2007, still deep in hostile territory, the ailing squad consolidated and holed up to try to get a few hours of uninterrupted rest in their “hide”, which is an area where snipers can observe targets without being seen. The “hide” in this case was overlooking a village that was suspected of being controlled by Sunni insurgents. Each man took turns guarding the others for an hour, but despite his best efforts, Sgt. Vela Carnahan fell asleep during his one-hour turn. When Sgt. Vela Carnahan awoke, he found Al-Janabi, an Iraqi national, standing just a few feet from him. Sgt. Vela Carnahan immediately started trying to wake-up the rest of the men, informing them that their position had been compromised. When Staff Sgt. Hensley awoke and understood the seriousness of the situation, he immediately took charge and pinned Al-Janabi to the ground and searched him. Shortly thereafter, Al-Janabi’s 17-year old son followed his father into the “hide” area.

Al-Janabi and his son were held captive by Staff Sgt. Hensley and his men until Staff Sgt. Hensley spotted several Iraqi military-aged men in the distance. Al-Janabi started to become very loud and was thrashing about making a lot of noise and Staff Sgt. Hensley became concerned that Al-Janabi would alert the other Iraqi’s in the area. Staff Sgt. Hensley testified that Al-Janabi was making too much noise and he thought the only way to protect his men was to take Al-Janabi’s life. He released Al-Janabi’s son and ordered everyone except Sgt. Vela Carnahan to leave. Staff Sgt. Hensley then ordered Sgt. Vela Carnahan to load his 9-millimeter pistol and made four calls to command post to support a cover story. After completing the calls, Staff Sgt. Hensley ordered Sgt. Vela Carnahan to fire, and Sgt. Vela Carnahan being a sniper who was conditioned to pull the trigger on the order to shoot, reflexively complied.

After the shooting, Staff Sgt. Hensley pulled out an AK-47, a weapon favored by insurgents, and placed it near Al-Janabi’s body. At Sgt. Evan Vela Carnahan’s trial, Sgt. Hensley testified, “It wasn’t uncommon for us to have to plant stuff like that out there” and that they often carried incriminating items to plant on Iraqi’s as “insurance”, in case they needed to create a cover story for American investigators after a shooting. The “insurance” was needed, because even though their superiors were pressing the squad to increase their kill rate, they held out the threat of prosecution for “unjust shootings” based upon Rules of Engagement. These Rules of Engagement are frightening our soldiers into having to carry “insurance” because of their fear that they will be charged by their own Country with murder or war crimes for making decisions to defend themselves.
-----------------------
One of the soldier’s who came forward with the allegations later told the court that he believed the classified items were for dropping on people the unit had killed, "to enforce if we killed somebody that we knew was a bad guy but we didn't have the evidence to show for it."

In his testimony at Sgt. Evan Vela Carnahan’s trial, Staff Sgt. Hensley, endeavored to justify the killing, saying that Al-Janabi would not stop yelling, crying and "flopping around like a fish" despite repeated efforts to silence him. It was then that Hensley says he decided, for the safety of his men, that Al-Janabi had to die. "I thought that he was trying to alert insurgents," Hensley said. "I felt like I had no choice or we would be further compromised." He says he asked Sgt. Vela Carnahan, who had a pistol trained on the man, if he was ready, and then he told him to shoot.
-----------

Staff Sgt. Michael Hensley was tried in Bagdad and acquitted of murder but convicted of planting evidence. He was sentenced to 135 days confinement, which was equal to time served, received a letter of reprimand, and was reduced in rank to Sergeant.

Specialist Jorge G. Sandoval, Jr. was acquitted of murder of Al -Janabi, but convicted of planting command wire to mislead investigators in a separate incident. He received a sentence of five months, which was equal to time served, a letter of reprimand, and was also reduced in rank.

Prior to the trial of Sgt. Evan Vela Carnahan, his family felt that the Sergeant had become a political sacrifice to U.S.-Iraqi relations. According to Sgt. Vela Carnahan’s father, Curtis Carnahan, who, along with Sgt. Vela Carnahan’s wife flew to Baghdad to attend the trial, "My son's commanding generals want somebody to be guilty of something so they can appease their Iraqi counterparts. They have tried this killing two times already and have no murder convictions to show for it. I know my son did not do anything wrong and I am optimistic the jury will agree."

Sgt. Evan Vela Carnahan’s trial was held in Bagdad shortly after Staff Sgt. Hensley’s trial. High-ranking members of the Iraqi government and Al-Janabi’s son attended the trial on a daily basis, and Curtis Carnahan believes that their presence influenced the panel in reaching the final verdict. Sgt. Vela Carnahan was convicted of murder without premeditation, aiding and abetting in the planting of evidence, and of lying to military investigators about the incident. He was sentenced to 10-years in Prison.

Sgt. First Class Steven Kipling, Sergeant Vela Carnahan’s former platoon commander, said the shooting of Al-Janabi was a result of Iraq’s violent environment and the often difficult and confusing choices that servicemen have to make on a daily basis. He said that if the actions of every combat serviceman in Iraq were subjected to the same scrutiny as Sergeant Vela’s, “we would have thousands” of cases.
-----------------------------

People who are not on the frontline of the war have the luxury of second-guessing, they are not in the heat of battle or behind enemy lines having to make life and death decisions. These soldiers represent the very best of America, they have volunteered to fight the war on terror for our Country, they have put their bodies and lives on the line for us. They deserve to be recognized as the heroes they are, and not be imprisoned by their own Country.

PFC Corey Clagett

As a dedicated journalist who has been painstakingly researching the story of Pfc. Corey R. Clagett since the summer of 2006 for my book, I have found that there is a lot of misinformation about the incident at Thar Thar.

Briefly, I will correct some of the more glaring errors in Mr. Petersen's article:

First of all, there is no evidence, physical or otherwise, that Pfc. Clagett killed anyone.

Yes, Col. Michael Steele ordered his men to kill all military age (enemy) men on sight but, in the two hearings that occurred prior to Pfc. Clagett's hearing, all bodies were accounted for by the actions of soldiers other than Pfc. Clagett.

The gun was not "vibrating" in Pfc. Clagett's hands, since it had actually soared out of them as his startled firing missed the fleeing insurgents.

Secondly, Pfc. Clagett never had a trial; instead, he was given a hearing. His attorney threatened him into making a plea bargain prior to the hearing, telling him it was the only way he would ever have a chance at parole. This same attorney coerced him to "confess" to following Steele's orders.

Thirdly, Pfc. Clagett never received physical nor mental abuse from the men in his mother's life. His stepfather John has had a long, affectionate father-son relationship with Corey for eleven years.

Fourthly, Pfc. Clagett was separated from his wife while he was in the service, yet they did not divorce so that he could continue to provide her with insurance.

Finally, since the Clagett/Dianiska family has made me privy to thousands of pages of non-public documents and I have interviewed Pfc. Clagett himself both in person and by phone and attended his hearing and met all of his attorneys -- none of whom have ever spoken with Mr. Petersen -- I can assure you that his research leaves much to be desired.

SGT Larry Hutchins: Released pending appeals

SSG Raymond Girouard: Paroled

 

[therealUT]

Congrats, they have pictures and they smile...they are also murderers.

 

[therealUT]

This is GSVol's attempt to try to make it seem as though West's investigation was somehow a result of some pervert lawyer. GS fails to understand that 15-6 Investigations are not conducted by lawyers; they are conducted by Officers in the unit. These Officers investigate the facts, interview witnesses, and propose to the Commanding Officer what action should be taken. The only process JAG has in Article 15s is to review the findings and make sure there are no leaps made without evidence to support.

.

 

[gsvol]

Good thing gs was there with fatherly advice for his stepdad. When's the next story?

What's your story.

 

[therealUT]

This is GSVol's attempt to try to make it seem as though West's investigation was somehow a result of some pervert lawyer. GS fails to understand that 15-6 Investigations are not conducted by lawyers; they are conducted by Officers in the unit. These Officers investigate the facts, interview witnesses, and propose to the Commanding Officer what action should be taken. The only process JAG has in Article 15s is to review the findings and make sure there are no leaps made without evidence to support.

.

 

[fl0at]

.

When my team was looked at, the "investigating officer" was our FAC. He was a pilot doing a required stand down to work air for our Bn.

He was not a lawyer.

Everything you disagree with, gs, is not a conspiracy.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[therealUT]

When my team was looked at, the "investigating officer" was our FAC. He was a pilot doing a required stand down to work air for our Bn.

He was not a lawyer.

Everything you disagree with, gs, is not a conspiracy.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

I've conducted 15-6 Investigations numerous times on things as benign as alcohol in country, to NDs, to sexual assault in country. I have no legal training and am indifferent to the JAG Corps. I simply wanted to find the facts, interview the relevant witnesses, apply my judgment to the situation and the circumstances, submit my investigation and my suggestions to the BC, and then get back to my job.

In the sexual assault case, I reached a point where the evidence was enough to warrant my request that CID step in and takeover the investigation. That is what happens and most 15-6 investigators (line officers) only reach that point (or the Commander immediately reaches that point and makes the call to CID) when the evidence and situation are already pointing toward gross wrongdoing.

I never wanted my guys, my peers, or any Joe's in my BN to be officially punished; however, I also wanted to investigate these events to the full extent. If I had reason to believe they were guilty, I stated so and suggested the punishment that the book recommends (usually 45 and 45 :hi.

 

[gsvol]

Congrats, they have pictures and they smile...they are also murderers.

Well one of them probably didn't kill anyone at all.

Three of them were convicted of killing four insurgents
who were never identified or were their bodies produced.

One was convicted of murder when evidence, including
a prosecution witness said it was self defense.

All the rest were either following direct orders or
were within the rules of engagement.

In war people get killed, plain and simple.

It weird how you say our guys are murderers but
the enemy is just fighting oppression.

This is GSVol's attempt to try to make it seem as though West's investigation was somehow a result of some pervert lawyer. GS fails to understand that 15-6 Investigations are not conducted by lawyers; they are conducted by Officers in the unit. These Officers investigate the facts, interview witnesses, and propose to the Commanding Officer what action should be taken. The only process JAG has in Article 15s is to review the findings and make sure there are no leaps made without evidence to support.

This is unreal's attempt to avoid the real issue.

For one thing he ignores political pressure from JAG.

Here is a little bit on the politicized Detainee Abuse Task Force (DATF) and Army's Criminal Investigation
Command, known as CID.

Inside the Detainee Abuse Task Force | Common Dreams
(This site might as well be called a communist party
site.)

The five CID agents who were interviewed for this
article, four of whom worked on the DATF during 2005,
said there was no consensus over what constituted abuse, especially when it came to interrogation techniques.
-------------------------

They said they were overwhelmed by hundreds of abuse cases they'd been ordered to reopen, which one agent speculated was done to avoid responding to
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests from the ACLU.
(another communist party group)gs

Jon Renaud, a retired Army Warrant Officer who headed
the task force as the Special Agent in Charge for the
first half of 2005, now says of the DATF, "It didn't
accomplish anything—it was a whitewash." Neither he
nor his fellow agents could recall a single case they
investigated that actually advanced to a court-martial hearing, known as an Article 32.

More to follow.

 

[therealUT]

This is GSVol's attempt to try to make it seem as though West's investigation was somehow a result of some pervert lawyer. GS fails to understand that 15-6 Investigations are not conducted by lawyers; they are conducted by Officers in the unit. These Officers investigate the facts, interview witnesses, and propose to the Commanding Officer what action should be taken. The only process JAG has in Article 15s is to review the findings and make sure there are no leaps made without evidence to support.

.

 

[therealUT]

Since GS decided not to respond to this in the other thread, I will paste it here:

War is a violent ordeal. That does not justify taking extrajudicial action to execute non-combatants. These men are not heroes; neither is West; neither is Calley.

In the Infantry, one lives by discipline and obedience. I could care less about what you think about LOW/ROE or the "Catch and Release" program in Iraq.

Behenna knew what he was doing was wrong. He made the call to turn the BFTs off for his entire platoon, so that they would not be tracked by the TOC. In doing so, he put his entire platoon at risk of a friendly fire incident.

He failed to report his movement to the TOC; once again, he put his entire platoon at risk of a friendly fire incident.

He assaulted a house without any prior Raven reconnaissance, SWT surveillance, or current SWT support in a neighborhood that has an incredible history of deadly firefights; again, this action placed his entire platoon at risk.

He then executed a person who, at that point in time, was a non-combatant.

There is nothing in that entire process of events that is anything other than disgraceful, despicable, and reckless. Behenna is not a hero and he should rot in the Disciplinary Barracks at Ft. Leavenworth for the rest of his miserable existence.