Jamal Khashoggi

#651
#651
How many political dissidents do you think are killed around the world in a given year? I'd guess a lot. I agree the murder should be condemned. I agree it was a heinous act. But we can't really let situations like this dictate foreign policy. If we did, we'd probably have to sanction or cut off ties with several more countries. Hell, we'd probably deserve to be sanctioned ourselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Matt2496, VolStrom and SpaceCoastVol
#652
#652
Weezer said:
How many political dissidents do you think are killed around the world in a given year? I'd guess a lot. I agree the murder should be condemned. I agree it was a heinous act. But we can't really let situations like this dictate foreign policy. If we did, we'd probably have to sanction or cut off ties with several more countries. Hell, we'd probably deserve to be sanctioned ourselves.
Click to expand...
Basic human rights should absolutely dictate foreign policy. The type of human rights punishable by death in countries like SA. Trump is scared to call them out just like all the rest. He's no different
 
#653
#653
BowlBrother85 said:
That is anyone's guess. The Bush family also had very close ties to the Saudi's which is well documented. It's hard to say whether or not Obama would have imposed the Magnitsky Act against Mohammed bin Salman but I tend to agree with you... Nevertheless, the statement itself matters... and Trump really blew with that weak and rambling garbage.
Click to expand...
There's where we disagree then - I don't think the statement matters. Obama and Bush would privately tell MBS "Hey, we're gonna release this statement, and it is going to be harsh on you and your government, but don't worry, our relationship isn't affected by this." Trump doesn't really play that game - he says things without thinking how they will be perceived.

Obama, Bush, Clinton, any other President would do precisely nothing if they were in this situation. Obama sold billions in arms to them during a brutal intervention into Yemen which has killed thousands of civilians and caused a huge humanitarian disaster. Not a peep.
 
#654
#654
utvolpj said:
Basic human rights should absolutely dictate foreign policy. The type of human rights punishable by death in countries like SA. Trump is scared to call them out just like all the rest. He's no different
Click to expand...

So we should cut off diplomatic relations with China, because their human rights record is horrible?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Matt2496, NorthDallas40, 0nelilreb and 2 others
#655
#655
Weezer said:
So we should cut off diplomatic relations with China, because their human rights record is horrible?
Click to expand...
I never said cut off relations. They should be held accountable and our policy should be stronger on that. We also shouldn't gush over leaders that starve, jail and kill anyone who disagrees with them.
 
#656
#656
utvolpj said:
I never said cut off relations. They should be held accountable and our policy should be stronger on that. We also shouldn't gush over leaders that starve, jail and kill anyone who disagrees with them.
Click to expand...

Accountable how, though? How far should we go in jeopardizing diplomatic relations? I agree the act should be strongly condemned, but are sanctions really the way to go?
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40 and volfanjustin
#657
#657
Weezer said:
Accountable how, though? How far should we go in jeopardizing diplomatic relations? I agree the act should be strongly condemned, but are sanctions really the way to go?
Click to expand...
Why not? Which is worth more- human life or cheap rubber dog crap? The only thing being jeopardized is money. We've decimated countries for much less

Can we continue to hold ourselves up as better if we do nothing to change it?
 
#658
#658
utvolpj said:
Why not? Which is worth more- human life or cheap rubber dog crap? The only thing being jeopardized is money. We've decimated countries for much less

Can we continue to hold ourselves up as better if we do nothing to change it?
Click to expand...
What exactly do you want done?
 
#659
#659
utvolpj said:
Why not? Which is worth more- human life or cheap rubber dog crap? The only thing being jeopardized is money. We've decimated countries for much less

Can we continue to hold ourselves up as better if we do nothing to change it?
Click to expand...

Money is not the only thing being jeopardized. Diplomatic relations benefit in more than monetary ways. One of those ways is keeping the peace. Potentially, even more human life could be at risk. Is straining that relationship because one man was dumb enough to enter a building where he knew his life would be in danger really worth it? He played Russian roulette with his life and lost. It's tragic, and the actions of the Saudis were undeniably heinous, but nothing we do undoes the act. Condemn it and move on.
 
#660
#660
Weezer said:
So we should cut off diplomatic relations with China, because their human rights record is horrible?
Click to expand...
Look how they have lost their minds over targeted tariffs. Can you imagine the outrage at all out cutting of ties?
 
#661
#661
utvolpj said:
I never said cut off relations. They should be held accountable and our policy should be stronger on that. We also shouldn't gush over leaders that starve, jail and kill anyone who disagrees with them.
Click to expand...
Accountable.... how?
 
#663
#663
SpaceCoastVol said:
Accountable.... how?
Click to expand...
You could start by making an unequivocal statement that placed blame for Khashoggi's murder squarely on Mohammed bin Salman. Trump has not even done that yet. Also, the Magnitsky Act was put into law to deal with just this type of human rights violation - a political hit on a dissident.
 
#664
#664
BowlBrother85 said:
You could start by making an unequivocal statement that placed blame for Khashoggi's murder squarely on Mohammed bin Salman. Trump has not even done that yet. Also, the Magnitsky Act was put into law to deal with just this type of human rights violation - a political hit on a dissident.
Click to expand...
Oooooh, that'll show him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40
#668
#668
BowlBrother85 said:
You could start by making an unequivocal statement that placed blame for Khashoggi's murder squarely on Mohammed bin Salman. Trump has not even done that yet. Also, the Magnitsky Act was put into law to deal with just this type of human rights violation - a political hit on a dissident.
Click to expand...
You have proof? Does Mr Trump have proof? I honestly dont know, but even if he does... what then? You sound like Demi Moore in A Few Good Men. "The Defense strenuously objects"
 
  • Like
Reactions: VolStrom
#670
#670
BowlBrother85 said:
What more proof does he need than the bone saw at the murder?
Click to expand...
So the crown prince's fingerprints are on it? I dont doubt he was involved, hes an arrogant muzzie leader. But i still don't know what you expect Mr Trump to do about it.
 
#671
#671
SpaceCoastVol said:
So the crown prince's fingerprints are on it? I dont doubt he was involved, hes an arrogant muzzie leader. But i still don't know what you expect Mr Trump to do about it.
Click to expand...
I thought I just said... Freeze some assets by way of the Magnitsky Act. Certainly MBS has some assets abroad which we could tie up. That is what he cares about the most and would get his attention. It doesn't have to end the diplomatic relationship or even alter it significantly. The point should be to do SOMETHING which gets their attention.
 
#672
#672
SpaceCoastVol said:
You have proof? Does Mr Trump have proof? I honestly dont know, but even if he does... what then? You sound like Demi Moore in A Few Good Men. "The Defense strenuously objects"
Click to expand...
The CIA seems to have a pretty good idea. I'm guessing Trump has a copy of their report if he wants to read it
 
#673
#673
Weezer said:
Money is not the only thing being jeopardized. Diplomatic relations benefit in more than monetary ways. One of those ways is keeping the peace. Potentially, even more human life could be at risk. Is straining that relationship because one man was dumb enough to enter a building where he knew his life would be in danger really worth it? He played Russian roulette with his life and lost. It's tragic, and the actions of the Saudis were undeniably heinous, but nothing we do undoes the act. Condemn it and move on.
Click to expand...
It's not about one person or act. It's about calling someone an ally when they are the exact opposite of what we claim to represent. We can villainize and sanction a country like Iran yet won't do it to one like SA? Why do you think that might be?
 
#675
#675
utvolpj said:
Why not? Which is worth more- human life or cheap rubber dog crap? The only thing being jeopardized is money. We've decimated countries for much less

Can we continue to hold ourselves up as better if we do nothing to change it?
Click to expand...

There’s a whole thread on how bad tariffs are on China and you want us to do more to them because of how they treat their people ? That’s interesting . You are going to make Huffs head explode trying to find a chart that covers the values of economics vs human suffrage .
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top