Jarret Guarantano better than most vol fans think

#51
#51
Its perfectly clear in the video (vs etsu at that) that JG holds the ball too long and doesn't read defensive pressure very well. Oline did wiff on maybe 2 plays but most of the hurries and bad passes we on him not knowing what to do presnap. Kids is athletic as anyone and I do think Chaney will correct this part of his game. Its way too early to write him off. Its hard to write him off after the shots he takes every Saturday.
 
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#52
#52
Well, considering that 6-7 guys on here routinely tell us that JG is so awful, so rotten that they’d be surprised if he could pull his helmet onto his head and button his chinstrap, I’d say he surely must “be better” than they think.
 
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#53
#53
KBVol said:
Well, considering that 6-7 guys on here routinely tell us that JG is so awful, so rotten that they’d be surprised if he could pull his helmet onto his head and button his chinstrap, I’d say he surely must “be better” than they think.
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You really believe that the offensive line is wholly responsible for any-and-all of JG's shortcoming last year? That to say the he bears some responsibility for his own play is tantamount to saying that he's terrible?
 
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#54
#54
turdherder11 said:
Its perfectly clear in the video (vs etsu at that) that JG holds the ball too long and doesn't read defensive pressure very well. Oline did wiff on maybe 2 plays but most of the hurries and bad passes we on him not knowing what to do presnap. Kids is athletic as anyone and I do think Chaney will correct this part of his game. Its way too early to write him off. Its hard to write him off after the shots he takes every Saturday.
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So, you took an “all 22” look so you could see what type of routes the WRs and TEs were running and what type of separation they were getting to be able to determine if JG was holding the ball too long? You talk to Helton to discuss what the protections were?

I was at that game, thought he played very well. He played about half the game, took only 1 sack while completing 8 passes for nearly 13 yards per attempt and over 20 yards per completion.

So, not real sure how you’re 1. Making your determinations 2. why you chose that game to level your criticism at him.

I’ll also remind you that for much of the game, ETSU was controlling our OL and running game....of our first 20 rushes, 12 resulted in negative yards, no gain or 1-3 yards.....that’s against a lowly FCS program ETSU in its 3rd year in existence.
 
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#55
#55
BeardedVol said:
You really believe that the offensive line is wholly responsible for any-and-all of JG's shortcoming last year? That to say the he bears some responsibility for his own play is tantamount to saying that he's terrible?
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Yep, about 90% of the issue, you betcha. He bears some of the responsibility, about 10% in my estimation.

OL was also damn near 100% responsible for 1/3 of our rushing plays resulting in negative yardage, which, BY FAR led the nation. They were damn near 100% responsible for our running game being last in the SEC and 114th out of 130 teams in the country.

And let’s not act like there aren’t 5-6 posters on here that straight up say he’s awful and ALL of the problem. Saw a regular JG hater post that over the weekend, that “JG is THE problem” and nothing else.

Also, there’s one guy on here who always argues that JG holds the ball too long because he doesn’t ever feel pressure who recently said he also throws off his back foot....so which is it, since a guy who throws off his back foot constantly feels pressure, even when little or none exist?
 
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#56
#56
From what I saw most of the time JG held the ball too long because he waiting on someone to get some separation to throw to but I'm sure there were a few times he held on too long just trying to make a play better than what was open. When its 3rd and 9 and the only receiver open is 4 yds past the line of scrimmage what do you do? Also I don't think he had many opportunities to go thru all the progressions as the O line could only give him about 2 seconds. When your O line cannot pass or run block not many successful plays can be called.

I am betting Chaney will be a lot more creative if we have that situation this year and can make some adjustments that Helton did not seem to be able to do.
 
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#57
#57
OrangeBeachVol said:
From what I saw most of the time JG held the ball too long because he waiting on someone to get some separation to throw to but I'm sure there were a few times he held on too long just trying to make a play better than what was open. When its 3rd and 9 and the only receiver open is 4 yds past the line of scrimmage what do you do? Also I don't think he had many opportunities to go thru all the progressions as the O line could only give him about 2 seconds. When your O line cannot pass or run block not many successful plays can be called.

I am betting Chaney will be a lot more creative if we have that situation this year and can make some adjustments that Helton did not seem to be able to do.
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I’d say that compared to Dormady, who threw off his back foot damn near every drop back because he appeared rattled due to pressure, real and imagined.....and compared to Chryst who avoided pressure at all cost which resulted in him appearing to look at his first read only before throwing the ball away, which led to a sterling 45% completion rate behind the same OL that JG completed 62% of his throws, that perhaps all the guys who continually harp that he holds the ball too long just don’t have the ability to properly perceive /discern what they saw from JG when he stood firm in the pocket waiting for a play to develop in 2.5 seconds before turning the ball loose and immediately getting decapitated all year long.
 
#58
#58
KBVol said:
Yep, about 90% of the issue, you betcha. He bears some of the responsibility, about 10% in my estimation.

OL was also damn near 100% responsible for 1/3 of our rushing plays resulting in negative yardage, which, BY FAR led the nation. They were damn near 100% responsible for our running game being last in the SEC and 114th out of 130 teams in the country.

And let’s not act like there aren’t 5-6 posters on here that straight up say he’s awful and ALL of the problem. Saw a regular JG hater post that over the weekend, that “JG is THE problem” and nothing else.

Also, there’s one guy on here who always argues that JG holds the ball too long because he doesn’t ever feel pressure who recently said he also throws off his back foot....so which is it, since a guy who throws off his back foot constantly feels pressure, even when little or none exist?
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If the expectation for time-to-throw is 3.5 seconds, then sure, the offensive line is responsible for 90% of JG's throwing issues due to lack of protection, but that number is an unreal expectation to everyone except K-Town_king when concerning JG.

2.8 seconds is the golden number for making that throw, according to Cutcliffe, who just put an got a formerly unranked QB into position to be the 2nd QB and the 6th overall pick in the 2019 NFL draft.

For comparison, as I have not seen any numbers for college QBs, in 2018 27 of 39 tracked NFL quarterbacks were at or below that 2.8 second mark, and only 4 were at or above 3 seconds on time to throw.
 
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#59
#59
Spot on, When JG had time to throw or someone got open quickly he was a very good passer and accurate. Pruitt has praised him for that. When you want to be anti-something its easy to look at one thing, isolate it, and bash it. If we can just have a decent O line this year the JG bashers will be hard pressed to find something to criticize but I'm sure they will. His demeanor on the sideline was bad, ha.
 
#61
#61
OrangeBeachVol said:
Spot on, When JG had time to throw or someone got open quickly he was a very good passer and accurate. Pruitt has praised him for that. When you want to be anti-something its easy to look at one thing, isolate it, and bash it. If we can just have a decent O line this year the JG bashers will be hard pressed to find something to criticize but I'm sure they will. His demeanor on the sideline was bad, ha.
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LOL... so it is OK to be "anti-OL" but if you are critical of JG WITHOUT being anti-JG... you're out of bounds?

He seems to have overcome any "locker room" issues he may have had. He needs to make good decisions and make them much quicker. He has other minor issues... but that's the major one that hurt him, the O, and the OL.
 
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#62
#62
KBVol said:
I’d say that compared to Dormady, who threw off his back foot damn near every drop back because he appeared rattled due to pressure, real and imagined.....and compared to Chryst who avoided pressure at all cost which resulted in him appearing to look at his first read only before throwing the ball away, which led to a sterling 45% completion rate behind the same OL that JG completed 62% of his throws, that perhaps all the guys who continually harp that he holds the ball too long just don’t have the ability to properly perceive /discern what they saw from JG when he stood firm in the pocket waiting for a play to develop in 2.5 seconds before turning the ball loose and immediately getting decapitated all year long.
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That's pure BS and you know it. You're better than that.
 
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#63
#63
LOL... so it is OK to be "anti-OL" but if you are critical of JG WITHOUT being anti-JG... you're out of bounds?
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No just pointing out that many seem to criticize JG for holding the ball too long and assume its all just indecisiveness on his part. The bad OL of last year is well documented by a lot of knowledgeable FB folks so commenting on that is not considered bashing IMO.
 
#64
#64
alltimevol2331 said:
Tennessee football: More stats favoring Jarrett Guarantano slam Vols OL


As I’ve said all along he is much better than some of you guys say or think. If the scouts are correct then Oregon quarterback Justin Herbert will be in the NFL draft. According to the sports source this morning in four categories Guarantano was better in three of them and tied the other.

Give this guy time and he will a top qb in the SEC.
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Oh boy. Here we go w the Volnation JG doubters. They no likey fluff piece
 
#65
#65
BeardedVol said:
If the expectation for time-to-throw is 3.5 seconds, then sure, the offensive line is responsible for 90% of JG's throwing issues due to lack of protection, but that number is an unreal expectation to everyone except K-Town_king when concerning JG.

2.8 seconds is the golden number for making that throw, according to Cutcliffe, who just put an got a formerly unranked QB into position to be the 2nd QB and the 6th overall pick in the 2019 NFL draft.

For comparison, as I have not seen any numbers for college QBs, in 2018 27 of 39 tracked NFL quarterbacks were at or below that 2.8 second mark, and only 4 were at or above 3 seconds on time to throw.
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You know...I was already teetering on depression w/ all the OL/JG talk...why you gotta bring up the Giants draft?
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#66
#66
njvols said:
You know...I was already teetering on depression w/ all the OL/JG talk...why you gotta bring up the Giants draft?
View attachment 214890View attachment 214891
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#67
#67
BeardedVol said:
If the expectation for time-to-throw is 3.5 seconds, then sure, the offensive line is responsible for 90% of JG's throwing issues due to lack of protection, but that number is an unreal expectation to everyone except K-Town_king when concerning JG.

2.8 seconds is the golden number for making that throw, according to Cutcliffe, who just put an got a formerly unranked QB into position to be the 2nd QB and the 6th overall pick in the 2019 NFL draft.

For comparison, as I have not seen any numbers for college QBs, in 2018 27 of 39 tracked NFL quarterbacks were at or below that 2.8 second mark, and only 4 were at or above 3 seconds on time to throw.
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You can cite 2.8 seconds as being the optimal time according to Cut if you, and I’m not gonna dispute it. Please keep in mind who Cut has worked with over the years in determining that “optimal time”.

But the fact is that JG had less than 2.5 seconds to throw on average last year, which was the least amount of time any of any QB in the SEC last year.

And despite those circumstances, took less than 2 sacks per game, completed 62% of his passes, while throw only 3 interceptions all year, all of which, if I’m doing my math right, means he got rid of the ball “OPTIMALLY”,according to Coach Cut, during the overwhelming majority of the time. Not too bad for a kid who feels no defensive pressure (despite always throwing off his back foot lol), has no earthly idea how to read a defense and can’t set a protection to save his life.
 
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#69
#69
KBVol said:
You can cite 2.8 seconds as being the optimal time according to Cut if you, and I’m not gonna dispute it. Please keep in mind who Cut has worked with over the years in determining that “optimal time”.

But the fact is that JG had less than 2.5 seconds to throw on average last year, which was the least amount of time any of any QB in the SEC last year.

And despite those circumstances, took less than 2 sacks per game, completed 62% of his passes, while throw only 3 interceptions all year, all of which, if I’m doing my math right, means he got rid of the ball “OPTIMALLY”,according to Coach Cut, during the overwhelming majority of the time. Not too bad for a kid who feels no defensive pressure (despite always throwing off his back foot lol), has no earthly idea how to read a defense and can’t set a protection to save his life.
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Last season, Guarantano was sacked six times, per PFF, in under 2.5 seconds. That’s about in line with the other four guys, all of whom were sacked four times in the same scenario. Guarantano’s “average time to throw” was 2.35 seconds. Fromm’s was 2.38 seconds, a feat he’s repeated exactly to the second the last two seasons. Now “time to throw” doesn’t automatically indicate throws under pressure. It’s simply how quickly a quarterback gets rid of the ball. Per the data, Guarantano typically did a nice job making decisive decisions. In throws under 2.5 seconds, only Tagovailoa (22 TDs and 2 INTS, 146.4 passer rating) and Fromm (17 TDs and 0 INTs, 130.6 passer rating) were better than Guarantano (10 TDs to 1 INT, 105.7 passer rating).
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Conversely, Guarantano really struggled when he held the ball for longer than 2.5 seconds. Now, so did the rest of the quarterbacks mentioned. For instance, Tagovailoa’s completion percentage dropped 20 points (77.9 vs. 57.0) on such throws. But he still had 20 touchdowns and mostly avoided sacks. Among SEC quarterbacks, only Tua and Fromm had passer ratings over 100.0 on such passes.

Since he was a freshman, Guarantano has had bouts where he holds on the ball too long. Of his 22 sacks last season, 16 came on plays where he was in the pocket for longer than 2.5 seconds. Two of his three interceptions came on such throws, too.

A deep dive into Jarrett Guarantano’s 2018 season using PFF data

This idea that the oline was collapsing in sub 2.5 seconds every snap, and were the sole issue with his passing, just simply is not true.
 
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#72
#72
alltimevol2331 said:
Tennessee football: More stats favoring Jarrett Guarantano slam Vols OL


As I’ve said all along he is much better than some of you guys say or think. If the scouts are correct then Oregon quarterback Justin Herbert will be in the NFL draft. According to the sports source this morning in four categories Guarantano was better in three of them and tied the other.

Give this guy time and he will a top qb in the SEC.
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Great, Another I told you so guy on this board. We need more...NOT!!! LOL He hasn't proven a damn thing yet. I hope I am wrong about him. I know Chaney will improve him a lot. But, I am still skeptical. I hope he does prove me wrong and leads UT to at least 8 wins this year!!! The OL will give him much more time this year. But, part of the issues have always been JG as well.
 
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#73
#73
Volatility said:
He’s a great QB, but even Peyton Manning would struggle with last year’s OL. Same with 2017, except that it was painfully obvious that JG should’ve never been classified as a dual threat QB.
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You are delusional for even making comparisons to Peyton and JG. No, Peyton wouldn't have struggled like JG did last year. Would Peyton have had some problems? Absolutley. But, come on, Peyton was light years above where JG was in many facets of being a QB last year!!! Come on!!! Are you serious???
 
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#75
#75
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